Jan transfer window

IncognitoMan

Lord TSC wrote: »

DiMaria being linked to China now, as per L'Equippe.

Least surprising move I've heard in a long time.

CantGetNoSleep

Lord TSC wrote: »

DiMaria being linked to China now, as per L'Equippe.

Classic player who doesn't really know the difference between his feet and his vagine

Dirty Dingus McGee

niallo27 wrote: »

The French league is ****e though. Why are we afraid to admit it.

It isn't really.

It's one of the top 5 leagues in the world and has 2 teams in the knockout stages of the Champions League.By any objective standards that isn't ****e. It may not be as good as Germany,England,Spain and Italy but it's still a good league.

A serious amount of talent from all over the world comes through the French league as well.

TimeToShine

China coming into the fray really changes things. Money talks and my god are they willing to fork out. Tripling already scandalous salaries is madness.

I can easily see a big group of the players who are just under the Sanchez/Hazard/Aguero tier who know they probably won't reach top top levels in their career make the move. We're already seeings the likes of Oscar/Bony/Di Maria linked - many will probably follow. The premiership will suffer as a result.

Liam O

Di Maria going there would annoy me. Top quality player. In an alternate universe, him Ozil and Casemiro are behind Bale, Ronaldo and Benzema in the most exciting team I've ever seen play football.

And I don't even like Real Madrid!

Buford T. Justice XIX

Callum McManaman joins Sheffield Wednesday on loan for the rest of the season from West Brom.

http://www.swfc.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/owls-agree-mcmanaman-move-3487379.aspx

Dirty Dingus McGee

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Callum McManaman joins Sheffield Wednesday on loan for the rest of the season from West Brom.

http://www.swfc.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/owls-agree-mcmanaman-move-3487379.aspx

He looked like he was going to be a brilliant player when he first came on the scene with Wigan. He seems to have completely faded away in the last few years.

Harry Palmr

Liverpool interested in Ox-Cham! :eek: And that's coming from approved sauces.....would be a weird one. Esp from a direct rival.

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Liverpool interested in Ox-Cham! :eek: And that's coming from approved sauces.....would be a weird one.

As opposed to sauces you take with a pinch of salt?

Trigger

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Liverpool interested in Ox-Cham! :eek: And that's coming from approved sauces.....would be a weird one. Esp from a direct rival.

Straight swap in for Mane when he heads off to ACON, dunno where he would fit in when he is back and ye have all your players fit. Would he be interested in swapping one squad role for another

marklazarcovic

ox is NOT going to lfc,says klopp

Jelle1880

A Turin based journalist says that Witsel has a far superior offer from China (18m per year) that Juventus can't match (4.5m per year).

https://twitter.com/MaxNerozzi/status/814621062562512898

Harry Palmr

China - it's the new evil in the footballing world!

Dempsey

Using money to change the football food chain seems to be 'evil'

Going by the general consensus of the majority of football fans, the only legitimate way of rising above your station is to have a sustained period of success above what your resources should allow you. Disdain for anything other than success on the football field first approach. A load of nonsense in modern professional football really.

Corholio

I don't see China as 'evil' or anything but just seems a waste for players like that to be going out there. Whatever about their plans for the future there, it's still a long way from that and as much as some fans like to ride the 'European football isn't everything, you know' train, let's be honest, it's a money league for now with very little impact on international stage as of yet. I don't blame the players for taking the crazy money of course, but it is light years from European football, as much as some want to teach Europe a lesson for thinking it's great.....or something like that.

Lucas Hood

All the goalkeepers are going mad that the Chinese can't buy them.

Agent Coulson

Witsel went to Russia for money originally so it really shouldn't be a surprise if he heads to China for money.

FixitFelix

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Liverpool interested in Ox-Cham! :eek: And that's coming from approved sauces.....would be a weird one. Esp from a direct rival.

someone to keep sturridge company in physio room maybe?

Harry Palmr

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Witsel went to Russia for money originally so it really shouldn't be a surprise if he heads to China for money.

Indeed - China is just the new Russia in many regards. Zenit spent €60m on Hulk who they sold to Shanghai for €55m. Amazing really!

yabadabado

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Witsel went to Russia for money originally so it really shouldn't be a surprise if he heads to China for money.

Russian league is a big step up in quality to China and the Russian teams can compete in European championship.
Is it the end of a players international career if they go to China?

Jelle1880

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Witsel went to Russia for money originally so it really shouldn't be a surprise if he heads to China for money.

I dunno, I'm sure it helped but Zenit was and still is a regular presence in European football. It's a pretty big club, not like Juventus of course but still.

I think he also saw it as a stepping stone to a bigger move (like Juve last year), that is until the Chinese came knocking.

He moved there in 2012, at a point when they were in the CL group stages and latter stages of the Europa League on a regular basis.

Mind you, it's just one journalist saying it, somehow (with an eye on his international career) I think Witsel will head to Turin if they make an offer.

CantGetNoSleep

The Witsel move to China seems to be going ahead anyway, bit of a shame that we'll never see him in a top league

ERG89

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

The Witsel move to China seems to be going ahead anyway, bit of a shame that we'll never see him in a top league

Weird he seemed so keen on Juve last August I figured he'd go there.
Kalanic has apparently rejected a €45m transfer to China from Fiorentina. Banega is being linked with a move now.

Burial.

Deal was done in the summer but Gabriel Jesus is due to arrive in Manchester soon. Looks a serious serious talent but given that he's Brazilian there's always a chance of being a complete brick. Interesting to see how Pep uses him.

CantGetNoSleep

Burial. wrote: »

Deal was done in the summer but Gabriel Jesus is due to arrive in Manchester soon. Looks a serious serious talent but given that he's Brazilian there's always a chance of being a complete brick. Interesting to see how Pep uses him.

He'll be decent until he goes on the beer like most Brazilians

Cantona's Collars

Another Chinese club are reported to have offered £80 million for Diego Costa.

greendom

Marseille want to bring Payet back to the Veledrome.

CantGetNoSleep

zerks wrote: »

Another Chinese club are reported to have offered £80 million for Diego Costa.

No point in them accepting that, not much more than they got for Oscar who was a bench player.

Trigger

Witsel off to China is done, unbelievable, turning down Juve and a chance to win at one of the top European clubs for money a second time, he will probably lose his National team spot as a result too due to the travel distances, no way he would be fresh for internationals.

https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/815647066617737216?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Lord TSC

Maybe but he will earn more there in one year than he would in four in Italy, and probably be treated like a god too. I really cannot begrudge any player for capitalising on the crazy Chinese market right now.

The Talking Bread

Witsel is a mercenary. Pure and simple but no surprise. The funniest thing though was his cheek to call it a "difficult decision"

Trigger

Lord TSC wrote: »

Maybe but he will earn more there in one year than he would in four in Italy, and probably be treated like a god too. I really cannot begrudge any player for capitalising on the crazy Chinese market right now.

You must be reading up Supposedly offered €4.5m per year from Juve and €18m per year from China,

duffman13

The china money is ridiculous, its not something that can be turned down by certain players. To be honest if I was being offered 4 or 5 times my wages id move and I absolutely hate China.

In my mind the **** will hit the fan over there sooner or later, contracts in China aren't worth the paper they are written on. It'll be interesting to watch though

klose

Hard to begrudge witsel for going with the 4 times higher salary, what are taxes like in china? When did the whole crazy chinese salarys thing start? I remember sven goran eriksen going over there a couple of years ago but not sure when the high profile names started going, alex teixeira last january?

duffman13

klose wrote: »

Hard to begrudge witsel for going with the 4 times higher salary, what are taxes like in china? When did the whole crazy chinese salarys thing start? I remember sven goran eriksen going over there a couple of years ago but not sure when the high profile names started going, alex teixeira last january?

A few players went a few years ago, Anelka was with Shanghai aswell as Tim Cahill. Cahills contract was just terminated with no warning early last year with Shanghai aswell, not sure what the taxes are like but id imagine not too crazy. Id be a bit worried if I was on a serious wedge and got a bad injury after they way Cahill was dumped.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-16/tim-cahill-contract-terminated-shanghai-shenua/7174884

theoneeyedman

klose wrote: »

Hard to begrudge witsel for going with the 4 times higher salary, what are taxes like in china? When did the whole crazy chinese salarys thing start? I remember sven goran eriksen going over there a couple of years ago but not sure when the high profile names started going, alex teixeira last january?

IIRC only in the last year or two. The Chinese president is apparently a fan, hence while he is in charge, it's all systems go. There was also mention of businessmen using clubs for 2 reasons, to curry favour with the boss man, and to move some of their money out of China.

There are heavy restrictions on moving money out of the country as far as I know, so let's say hypothetically you pay, I dunno £60M for an asset worth say £15M to someone used to handling hot money, a bit of creative accounting, a Swiss bank account or 2 later, and bobs your uncle, clean money whenever the regime changes and you have to cut stick.

That said, there is a market in Asia for a big league, given population etc. If the foundations are in place, a Chinese league could flourish, but I don't know if that is the case.

There is a lot of snobbery though, and calling players mercenaries for taking a chance and going is a bit rich. I agree on the contracts though, the likes of Wietsel would need to be offered 4 times the wages to go, as there is a fair chance he'll not see the end of the contract. A few oil rich Russian teams offered similar deals a few years ago, only for the wind to change and the deals were worthless.

The Talking Bread

klose wrote: »

Hard to begrudge witsel for going with the 4 times higher salary, what are taxes like in china? When did the whole crazy chinese salarys thing start? I remember sven goran eriksen going over there a couple of years ago but not sure when the high profile names started going, alex teixeira last january?

I don't think anyone is begrudging him at all though, maybe Juve fans but their logic of transfer business can be most confusing at times. Excuse the pun, but it literally is black or white with them. If a player leaves/refuses them for bigger money (Pogba, Vidal, now Witsel) they are mercenaries/snakes etc whilst if it concerns players like Pjanic and Higuain, they are heros!

So it isn't that people begrudge him, it is more disappointment (in a way) that this is going to become a lot more common place over the next few years.

Anelka was probably the first "big name" in football to head over there but like the rest of his career, never really settled. Drogba was there also. Both at the end of their top class career level and both having achieved so much at top level so were reasonable departures

The Talking Bread

theoneeyedman wrote: »

IIRC only in the last year or two. The Chinese president is apparently a fan, hence while he is in charge, it's all systems go. There was also mention of businessmen using clubs for 2 reasons, to curry favour with the boss man, and to move some of their money out of China.

There are heavy restrictions on moving money out of the country as far as I know, so let's say hypothetically you pay, I dunno £60M for an asset worth say £15M to someone used to handling hot money, a bit of creative accounting, a Swiss bank account or 2 later, and bobs your uncle, clean money whenever the regime changes and you have to cut stick.

That said, there is a market in Asia for a big league, given population etc. If the foundations are in place, a Chinese league could flourish, but I don't know if that is the case.

There is a lot of snobbery though, and calling players mercenaries for taking a chance and going is a bit rich. I agree on the contracts though, the likes of Wietsel would need to be offered 4 times the wages to go, as there is a fair chance he'll not see the end of the contract. A few oil rich Russian teams offered similar deals a few years ago, only for the wind to change and the deals were worthless.

No it isn't. By definition, it is clear Witsel is the prime example of a "football mercenary" (not saying his morals are bad!) But in football, he has turned down 2 of the biggest clubs in Europe/World now to play in leagues and for clubs he would have no real insight into, clearly for the money offered.
Again, not begrudgery, just calling a spade a spade here.

Jelle1880

Football must be the only job in the world where looking out for yourself and your family is seen as 'being a mercenary'.

The days of players being loyal to their clubs are pretty much over, a few exceptions notwithstanding (Totti, Di Natale, Buffon,...). But it's their job, one that they can only do for a limited amount of time.

theoneeyedman

The Talking Bread wrote: »

No it isn't. By definition, it is clear Witsel is the prime example of a "football mercenary" (not saying his morals are bad!) But in football, he has turned down 2 of the biggest clubs in Europe/World now to play in leagues and for clubs he would have no real insight into, clearly for the money offered.
Again, not begrudgery, just calling a spade a spade here.

Common definitions of mercenary term it as someone who prioritises money over ethics. I'd suggest if Weitsel and other China based players are mercenaries, then any player who were transferred from his first club could be described in similar terms.

I agree there is a certain lack of sporting ambition in players going to China at the peak of their careers, but I think for now at least, I'm guessing 'top-top' who are driven by winning big trophies will stay in the big European leagues.

Hard to think of many who turned down a substantial wage increase, Vardy snubbing Arsenal comes to mind but even he got an increase in his Leicester contract, albeit one that still fell short of the Arsenal offer.

The Talking Bread

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Common definitions of mercenary term it as someone who prioritises money over ethics. I'd suggest if Weitsel and other China based players are mercenaries, then any player who were transferred from his first club could be described in similar terms.

I agree there is a certain lack of sporting ambition in players going to China at the peak of their careers, but I think for now at least, I'm guessing 'top-top' who are driven by winning big trophies will stay in the big European leagues.

FWIW, I distinguished between "football mercenary" and mercenary terms based on ethics.
People are using the simplistic term of mercenary to not see beyond the point others are making re Witsel's transfer choices.

Noone is saying the guy is unethical, moral lacking, merely that his football ambition, for a top player, is diminished somewhat by his ambition to be rich.

Again nothing wrong with that but people are entitled to criticise his reasons behind the move as well.

Most top players have ambitions to play for top clubs and win top honours as well as earn top money. Witsel just seems to want the latter for his club career.

adox

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Football must be the only job in the world where looking out for yourself and your family is seen as 'being a mercenary'.

The days of players being loyal to their clubs are pretty much over, a few exceptions notwithstanding (Totti, Di Natale, Buffon,...). But it's their job, one that they can only do for a limited amount of time.

I tend to mostly agree but the money they are being offered in Europe is probably more than they can ever spend anyway, so you would think there comes a point where "chasing the money to better yourself/family" becomes obsolete and is just a numbers exercise.

Surely players reach a point in their career where they are on contracts that have already set them up for life so money isn't really an issue and have to decided what path they want to take. I wouldn't begrudge them going for the extra money I suppose but you abe to question their ambition purely as a sportsman.

Flint Fredstone

adox wrote: »

I tend to mostly agree but the money they are being offered in Europe is probably more than they can ever spend anyway, so you would think there comes a point where "chasing the money to better yourself/family" becomes obsolete and is just a numbers exercise.

Surely players reach a point in their career where they are on contracts that have already set them up for life so money isn't really an issue and have to decided what path they want to take. I wouldn't begrudge them going for the extra money I suppose but you abe to question their ambition purely as a sportsman.

You would be surprised how much someone on 15m a year can spend in a year. It's a short career and if you're used to a lifestyle where you are only buying the best of the best...

If you're picking up say 250k a week, you may be thinking you couldn't live on 80k a week. It's all relative.

Flint Fredstone

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

If you're picking up say 250k a week, you may be thinking you couldn't live on 80k a week. It's all relative.

Reminds me of this...

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/life-is-a-struggle-on-232000-says-university-president-26895973.html

Ferris_Bueller

Someone made a good point a week or two ago, that a lot of players are probably at a stage in their career where they realise they won't be the best player in the world or winning CL after CL with Barcelona, once they have accepted this I would assume their next concern is money and making a good living for their families. I absolutely do not blame Witsel for going, he is about to turn 28 so this move (regardless of who he went to) was probably going to be the most financially lucrative of his career as he is coming into his prime years, does it matter to him if he is winning the Chinese League or Serie A? You could argue it's going to be more of a challenge trying to win the title in China than it would be for Juve to win another Serie A.

The game we love is full of mercenaries, otherwise players would just stay at their hometown club because it was their dream to win trophies with them. There are only a handful of players and a handful of clubs who can really claim to be at the very top of the game and will go down in the history books, maybe Witsel could have been one of those players if he had helped guide Juve to their first Champions League in over 20 years, but I guess that is the decision he had to make.

Dick phelan

I watched a documentary on football in China recently, Basically all these crazy wages are backed by the government, the government wants China to win the world cup by 2040 and are buying up big name players to grow the interest in China with the aim of making it by far the most popular and played sport in the country.

L'prof

Dick phelan wrote: »

I watched a documentary on football in China recently, Basically all these crazy wages are backed by the government, the government wants China to win the world cup by 2040 and are buying up big name players to grow the interest in China with the aim of making it by far the most popular and played sport in the country.

I don't see how buying superstars from all around the world is going to help the national team at all

Dick phelan

I'll say it now one of the next major moves to China will be Yaya Toure, guys a total mercenary and has fallen out of favor at City, that coupled with his age i see him moving to China as it's the only place that will pay him the wages he's currently on at City/

Lucas Hood

L'prof wrote: »

I don't see how buying superstars from all around the world is going to help the national team at all

Get people more interested in watching/playing football.

People gathering in groups to do stuff together was illegal over there till recently enough I believe.