1 in 14 drivers in Ireland uninsured

Renegade Mechanic

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

It's down to the size of claims (many if which have to be inflated) the convoluted and expensive legal system for civil cases.

The insurers and the state need to sort this out.

It's also fairly clear there's lack of competition issue.

The claims are a problem, but they're also a convenient scapegoat. The insurance industry lost WAY more money, gambling on the bond market than Dave with his "nightmares" is costing them. But it's a little easier for the public to swallow, I guess, than "yeah, we lost our arse and are going to go ahead and do pretty much what the banks did, now pay up, common pleb, like you always do".

Supergurrier

Rates have become crazy in last few years.

Insurance companies need to become more transparent in their charging and young drivers need to be given a break. How does a person of late teens/early twenties in rural Ireland get into employment without being able to have personal transport ? It's a large part of why so many are on the dole.

We need a Rego type system here. Longterm govt would make it up in income tax increases and social welfare savings.

It's fine for the powers that be to be in their middle years (Anne is a 57 year old nurse from Sligo and pays 430e to insure her 1 litre 2015 yaris **** etc) to charge what they want to the younger generation who can't afford newer cars via tax/insurance but what happens in 20 years time when the young people who opted out of employment /didn't do that course in uni or fas training because at the time transport isn't viable.

It's greed for the sake of it and it lacks foresight.

bazz26

There were a certain percentage of drivers in this country who see insurance as an expense they don't need to bother paying well before insurance premiums started rising. These drivers are the same ones who tend to not to bother with paying motor tax either. For them its a way of life where the risk of getting caught and punished is lower than abiding by the law.

The whole insurance industry here including transparency and laws around claims and injury payouts needs to be totally overhauled but alas I doubt there is the political will to do. While I do sympathies with people who are struggling to afford insurance premiums among other things, it is a requirement by law and cannot be vindicated in anyway. Driving uninsured doesn't fix anything.

Oodoov

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

The claims are a problem, but they're also a convenient scapegoat. The insurance industry lost WAY more money, gambling on the bond market than Dave with his "nightmares" is costing them. But it's a little easier for the public to swallow, I guess, than "yeah, we lost our arse and are going to go ahead and do pretty much what the banks did, now pay up, common pleb, like you always do".

And you can be guaranteed the insurance federation will get as much air time as they like on RTE, Newstalk etc.. to demonish the people driving without insurance. One phone call is all it takes and the agenda is set. They'll roll out some poor unfortunate that lost their son/daughter in a car crash after being hit by an uninsured driver and also tell us about "compo culture".

I've been driving cars, motorbikes and trucks since i was 18. I'm now 43 and have never received as much as a parking ticket, no claims, no accidents no speeding tickets, nowt, and yet somehow the insurance companies seem to think it's okay to charge me 684 euro on a 16 year old Honda civic that is meticulously maintained and cared for. The same car cost me 214 euro in 2013. The also have the cheek to tell me im lucky to be even quoted on a "old car".

It's a cartel and everyone knows it.

Special Circumstances

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Though ironically enough, uninsured drivers are by and large the most careful and alert drivers for obvious reasons...

I'll have to stop you there (but the rest of your post was good):

Either 1 in 3 drivers are uninsured .... or the statistics show they are involved in a disproportionate number of serious crashes.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/rsa-one-third-of-drivers-in-fatal-collisions-have-no-insurance-733615.html

BTW - that's "definitely no insurance". Apparently in the RSA stats 50% (approx, iirc) were definitely insured, 33% weren't and the others were in some other indeterminate state of insurance.

mel123

These articles its pure bull 'tough penalty's if you get caught'
I was hit by an uninsured driver. Phone the guards naturally. By the time they arrive at the scene, the driver had rang and got insurance - now he admitted this to the guards.
Guards 'oh great you have insurance, give us your name and details please, we'll be in touch, now go on and drive off there to work good man'.
The guards dont even want the bloody hassle any more.

The law needs to crack down on these people to discourage people from doing it in the first instance.

Renegade Mechanic

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I'll have to stop you there (but the rest of your post was good):

Either 1 in 3 drivers are uninsured .... or the statistics show they are involved in a disproportionate number of serious crashes.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/rsa-one-third-of-drivers-in-fatal-collisions-have-no-insurance-733615.html

BTW - that's "definitely no insurance". Apparently in the RSA stats 50% (approx, iirc) were definitely insured, 33% weren't and the others were in some other indeterminate state of insurance.

That's still only a third, the other two are very mych watching their backs, I'd wager and I just can't take the RSA as seriously as I probably should since Gay Byrne hopped in, took credit for the lowering in road deaths due to so, so many people, erm, not needing to use the road as much due to unemployment or emigration, then patting himself on the back and ****ing off when the country got a little busier and - surprise surprise - the increase in drivers lead to an increase in road deaths....

And that was 2008 - 2012, those figures. Before the current breed of people who never broke a law in their lives suddenly being faced with an uncomfortable prospect.

SteM

mel123 wrote: »

These articles its pure bull 'tough penalty's if you get caught'
I was hit by an uninsured driver. Phone the guards naturally. By the time they arrive at the scene, the driver had rang and got insurance - now he admitted this to the guards.
Guards 'oh great you have insurance, give us your name and details please, we'll be in touch, now go on and drive off there to work good man'.
The guards dont even want the bloody hassle any more.

The law needs to crack down on these people to discourage people from doing it in the first instance.

But surely if his insurance company are told that he had the accident before he was covered then they wouldn't pay out? Did you tell them?

mel123

SteM wrote: »

But surely if his insurance company are told that he had the accident before he was covered then they wouldn't pay out? Did you tell them?

Oh no they wouldnt pay, he wasnt insured at the time of the accident, but just my point being that he was allowed on his merry way and i doubt a whole lot happened to him regarding the law...a few penalty points maybe? I was never called to court (the guard said i would be), if he was getting summonsed.

neris

Wonder if it,ll get to the point where the insurance companies refuse to issue insurance/quotes to new business for car insurance. I went to get a quote to get a truck insured a while ago and was told no one was taking on new business because of the same issues as the car industry but on a bigger scale

ShadowHearth

Well, insurance companies here are a bunch of legal robbers.

I LOVE, JUST LOVE, how they say on those ads that we pay at least extra 50eu premium on our car insurance due to fraud! REALLY?! My insurance went up not by 50eu, but by 800eu and I did not not claimed ever in my life!

I am looking at new car and I feel like 18 year old fella who just got fresh license. Checking insurances on cars if it is at least in reasonable 1k eu premium bracket. I am 30 years old with 8ncb and 12 years license!

Next year it wont be 7%, it will be higher. They already said that insurance will go only up next year and I can see more uninsured drivers.

Its a shame, that I am extremely OCD when it comes to discs on my window. It drives me mad to have missing at least one. Maybe if at least 50% of irish motorist would just go " **** this we are not paying", then maybe, just maybe they would look at the issue from different angle and not just go easy mode - PAY MOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRR!

Pinch Flat

I heard 150,000 drivers up from 85,000 in a few years. The last time I looked at this, a 6% premium was on every insurance policy to fund the €58m paid out through the MIBI annually, so presumably this can only get higher.

Would be nice to see some real competition come into the market - it's effectively a cartel currently. In saying that, anyone who gets into a car uninsured should be kept off the roads.

Riva10

myshirt wrote: »

How about 10 years off the road, and an attachment order to any earnings or income you have for the same period; take money from you, week on week, every week, until you f#cking learn.

Do you really think that 10 years off the road would work. The will just keep driving without a licence

Hococop

Surely its down to the payouts for injuries, can't remember where I read it but we payout 3 or 4 times more on whiplash injuries that most other European countries, if the payout was dropped surely the insurance prices would drop?

uck51js9zml2yt

They know-how many cars are sold. They know or can at least find out who bought them. Same for insurance..It's not rocket science to find out whose not insured.

They also need to make it mandatory to prove insurance when taxing a vehicle. Anyone can write anything in the space provided and it's not checked

Testacalda

''The figures are calculated by comparing the number of registered vehicles to those which have insurance. They show that one in every 14 private vehicles on Irish roads is now uninsured.''


Just goes to show that you can use statistics to prove anything!


What a stupid way to calculate that. Its wildly inaccurate as the number of vehicles registed (and still registered despite being scrapped) in Ireland is obvioulsy going to a sizeable number more than the amount of vehicles insured.



I have plenty of cars that I dont drive on the road that are uninsured. I wonder am I part of their 1 in 14!

Eric Cartman

myshirt wrote: »

How about 10 years off the road, and an attachment order to any earnings or income you have for the same period; take money from you, week on week, every week, until you f#cking learn.

Attachment orders to social welfare payments are generally limited to a 5er a week, wont do f*ck all

*before anyone starts, I am not saying all the non insured are on the social, but the lack of money certainly plays into it, and from the court section of my local paper , all the addresses of non insired drivers are from the same set of council estates over and over again.

Driving bans do nothing also, the type of person who drives uninsured will drive while banned too, the lowest of the low

seamus

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Though ironically enough, uninsured drivers are by and large the most careful and alert drivers for obvious reasons...

As pointed out already, uninsured drivers are in fact way overrepresented in the statistics for crashes and claims. If 1-in-14 drivers are uninsured, and 1-in-3 accidents involves an uninsured driver, then that means that an uninsured driver is 4.5 times more likely to be involved in an accident than an insured one. Which, interestingly, is about the same risk increase as being at the drink-driving limit. So clearly they are far from "the most careful and alert drivers".

For obvious reasons, they're the least socially conscious and civic-minded people on the road and therefore likely to be completely ignorant of many other areas of road law and safety. Sure if you haven't got insurance, why bother with tax or an NCT? Why stop at red lights, why give way to pedestrians?

Uninsured drivers are a pox on the roads. There's no excuse for it. If you're caught more than once, there should be jail time at a minimum.

Jayop

Testacalda wrote: »

''The figures are calculated by comparing the number of registered vehicles to those which have insurance. They show that one in every 14 private vehicles on Irish roads is now uninsured.''


Just goes to show that you can use statistics to prove anything!


What a stupid way to calculate that. Its wildly inaccurate as the number of vehicles registed (and still registered despite being scrapped) in Ireland is obvioulsy going to a sizeable number more than the amount of vehicles insured.



I have plenty of cars that I dont drive on the road that are uninsured. I wonder am I part of their 1 in 14!

Every garage in the country has a heap of second hand cars that are by and large still in the previous owners name. Not insured and not being driven illegally. It's a nonsense figure and goes to show the extent they will go to make others look like the guilty ones.

NIMAN

I don't know why something like this isn't easily sorted?

Surely it would be simple to have a database of driver number v current tax disc v current insurance cert v NCT number (if applicable), and then a computer can easily tell you who hasn't got insurance, or tax, or NCT.

Its not rocket science. Why isn't something like that done?

AmyKeeler

Any party that campaigns on fixing the housing and insurance nightmares gets my vote.

Special Circumstances

NIMAN wrote: »

Its not rocket science. Why isn't something like that done?

Your Honour, exhibit A...

TheQuietFella

IrishZeus wrote: »

So apparently just over 7% of all drivers are now uninsured in Ireland.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1219/839842-uninsured-drivers-motor-insurance/

This seems like a huge figure - I never would have thought it to be so high but given the cost of premiums, it was always going to drive up the rate of the uninsured.

Is there any way to tackle this, other than some form of regulation to decrease policies? There will always be chancers who won't pay, but perhaps lower premiums/harsher penalties would be a good start?

The majority of them being foreign nationals!

nice_guy80

TheQuietFella wrote: »

The majority of them being foreign nationals!

Doubt it
Plenty of Irish scumbags abd chancers who do it

wonski

neris wrote: »

Wonder if it,ll get to the point where the insurance companies refuse to issue insurance/quotes to new business for car insurance. I went to get a quote to get a truck insured a while ago and was told no one was taking on new business because of the same issues as the car industry but on a bigger scale

Well, I just checked some quotes online. I know sometimes you just need to pick up a phone, however I prefer to do it online as all information is clearly stated on the website and there is no risk the person on the other end typed in my info incorrectly (on purpose or not).

Now I always could buy my policy online and usually had a good choice of insurers and different policies available to me.

Quotes for 35 years old with full Irish license (test passed in Ireland 6 years ago) and 7 years no claims free insurance history (in my own name) driving 01 Mercedes CLK 2l petrol:

Current insurer - 123.ie - no quote, referred to Kenn.co (last year renewal was €505.52)
AA - €1371
FBD - no quote
Axa - €1053
AIG - €1856 / €1670 if an app is used to monitor my driving with further discounts available if I am a good boy behind the wheel
Aviva - no quote.

Aviva is a funny one, because they don't issue insurance if your car is over 14 years old. They are more than happy to collect your info and proceed with the quote instead of telling you straight away to go elsewhere.

I have changed first two digits of my car registration to 05****** which came up as Ford Focus 1.4 LX, but they still refused.

I can only imagine what 23 years old with no experience has to go through to get a policy these days???

The way it goes there will be more and more people not giving a ****

No enforcement on roads doesn't help, but if you can't get a policy from top companies in the country, what you gonna do?

I will shop around anyway, but it looks like there are less and less shops to go to...

goz83

Hococop wrote: »

Surely its down to the payouts for injuries, can't remember where I read it but we payout 3 or 4 times more on whiplash injuries that most other European countries, if the payout was dropped surely the insurance prices would drop?

That's easily said until you're the one who is injured. And I don't blame you, as I would have had a similar point of view until someone injured me in a serious way, all the while having to see the other party telling lies and denying liability :mad:

And prices wouldn't drop. The insurance companies would just find another tale to tell. It only drops when it suits them.

Kohen Yummy Drink wrote: »

They know-how many cars are sold. They know or can at least find out who bought them. Same for insurance..It's not rocket science to find out whose not insured.

They also need to make it mandatory to prove insurance when taxing a vehicle. Anyone can write anything in the space provided and it's not checked

But it's not mandatory to have insurance when taxing a car. These things love to be complicated in Ireland.

goz83

@ Wonski :eek::eek::eek:

They are some seriously cr@p quotes. I'm of similar age with similar car and stats and my last renewal in August (i think) was circa 7-800. Up by about 200. If it went over 1k, I would walk.

wonski

goz83 wrote: »

@ Wonski :eek::eek::eek:

They are some seriously cr@p quotes. I'm of similar age with similar car and stats and my last renewal in August (i think) was circa 7-800. Up by about 200. If it went over 1k, I would walk.

Was bored and reading that thread made me look at what I might need to pay in February...

Last year renewed with 123 as all other options were no go.

I hope they will offer me another renewal, and I do hope it is going to be three digits starting with 5 or 6... Paid ~500 to 600 in last 3-4 years.

Was thinking of getting 2.5 v6, but a bit newer (05), but I might reconsider if that's the way my experience and no claims history is rewarded.

Charles Babbage

Kohen Yummy Drink wrote: »

They know-how many cars are sold. They know or can at least find out who bought them. Same for insurance..It's not rocket science to find out whose not insured.

They also need to make it mandatory to prove insurance when taxing a vehicle. Anyone can write anything in the space provided and it's not checked

Insurance policies throughout the EU should have standard policy number format, something like an IBAN. For getting motor tax or at any checkpoint it should be possible to establish the current status of that policy, who is entitled to drive on it, the vehicles it covers etc.

Riva10

Hococop wrote: »

Surely its down to the payouts for injuries, can't remember where I read it but we payout 3 or 4 times more on whiplash injuries that most other European countries, if the payout was dropped surely the insurance prices would drop?

And who pays out on the false whiplash claims. The insurance companies who much prefer to settle the false claims as it is much easier to settle quickly than investigate the claims.