Landlords, what have you decided to do about the new amendments?

newacc2015

d1980 wrote: »

I have a q and apologies if it has Been covered.

I have an apartment yielding 1,000 a month. The market is somewhere between 1400 to 1600. If I were to give it to the council on one of those 10 to 20 year leases where you get guaranteed 80% of the market rent.
Would the 80% apply to the 1000 or current market or is that also tied to the current rules?

Thanks

The only way to phrase it is the council pulls a rent out of their arse and calls it the 'market rate'. I called the council about it before and their 'market rate' was about a third less than the actual market rate. So they are giving you 80% of a fraction of the market rate.

Basically despite advertising it super heavily, councils havent got much up take for it as their market rate is a joke

kyleman

newacc2015 wrote: »

d1980 wrote: »

I have a q and apologies if it has Been covered.

I have an apartment yielding 1,000 a month. The market is somewhere between 1400 to 1600. If I were to give it to the council on one of those 10 to 20 year leases where you get guaranteed 80% of the market rent.
Would the 80% apply to the 1000 or current market or is that also tied to the current rules?

Thanks

The only way to phrase it is the council pulls a rent out of their arse and calls it the 'market rate'. I called the council about it before and their 'market rate' was about a third less than the actual market rate. So they are giving you 80% of a fraction of the market rate.

Basically despite advertising it super heavily, councils havent got much up take for it as their market rate is a joke

Don't make that mistake. Council pay 80% of a rate plucked from wherever and you will end up with approximately 50% of current market rate.

newacc2015

TheDoc wrote: »

I think what I've taken from this thread thus far is that I'm actually happy that the government is making some inroads into tackling the wild west show that the private rental market operates in, and that hopefully the generation or two behind me can operate in an environment where there is consistent and streamlined operations from landlord to landlord. It's an absolute laughing stock reading landlord opinion sometimes on this forum, and I feel blessed with the landlords I've had to deal with.

I literally just saw a post advising someone to look for six month deposit up front haha.

How familiar are you with the regulations in the private rental sector? My experience when you ask someone waffling on about how there is little regulation of private rentals and ask them to give examples. Nearly everything they list is regulated from standards of housing to the length of tenancy.

What is unregulated in the private rental industry in 2017? I would love to hear your opinion on this

You see a landlord asking for a 6 month deposit upfront is a sign that the industry is becoming more professional and commerical. In the US and Germany, massive deposits are the norm. In the US and Germany, apartments are generally let unfurnished, so a massive deposit isnt even that necessary. They should be the norm here since tenant rights are so strong and landlords arent.

What is exactly so funny with a landlord asking for a 6 month deposit? A tenant might not pay their rent for 12 months and there is little recourse to get the rent back off them. The contents of a rental property is well in excess of 6 months deposit.

Your post is quite typical of an Irish tenant. You haven't had any issues or negative experiences, but yet most landlords are still out to screw you over... You can read unbiased reports from the RTB( actually the RTB are biased in favour of the tenant generally), where you will find there is very few issues with landlords in this country even with the 'wild west regulations', such as 99.85% of deposits are handed back fairly.

I am going to say every few people who hire a car get back anywhere close to 99.85% of their deposit all of the time? Or any one who rents anything gets their deposit as much as tenants.

You see the thing is 99.9% of landlords are fine, there are just a few bad ones. That is the norm in every industry from legal to medical professions. Yet for some reason, a dodgy landlord often gets more publicity in this nation than a dodgy Doctor.

marsbar1

Sorry for not being with the programme but I've read many pages of this thread but can't see a conformation of what you are talking about. What 'amendments'?

These? http://www.rtb.ie/media-research/news-centre/latest-news/2016/12/23/changes-to-policy-and-the-law ??

If so why are people talking about selling up?

highgiant1985

newacc2015 wrote: »

You see a landlord asking for a 6 month deposit upfront is a sign that the industry is becoming more professional and commerical.

What is exactly so funny with a landlord asking for a 6 month deposit?

I'd question the accuracy of the "99.85% of deposits are handed back fairly". Maybe its right but it's not been the experience of most people I know who rent. I rented for 10 years myself in various places around the country and I've had some really good landlords and some bad ones the same as landlords will have had some good tenants and some bad ones. I've since purchased but either way there's no way I'd trust a landlord I don't know with a six month deposit.

Source is a couple of years old but the general point remains valid: http://www.thejournal.ie/landlord-deposit-1546754-Jul2014/

"ALMOST TWO-THIRDS of renters (60 per cent) find it difficult to get deposits returned from landlords, a new survey has found."

If larger deposits are to become the norm then it would require a tenancy deposit scheme like they have in the UK. Source: https://www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-protection/overview. If such an independent scheme existed I'd be open to a larger deposit (if I was back renting).

Graham

highgiant1985 wrote: »

"ALMOST TWO-THIRDS of renters (60 per cent) find it difficult to get deposits returned from landlords, a new survey has found."

What does "find it difficult" mean and are we talking about the respondents most recently ended tenancy or ever in their entire life?

murphaph

newacc2015 wrote: »

You see the thing is 99.9% of landlords are fine, there are just a few bad ones. That is the norm in every industry from legal to medical professions. Yet for some reason, a dodgy landlord often gets more publicity in this nation than a dodgy Doctor.

And I would bet my house on tax evasion being a much bigger problem amongst cash in hand GPs (unknown number of patients per day) than landlords where the number of properties/tenants is known. Hiding a house is pretty difficult. Hiding the fact you saw 50 people a day and not the reported 40 is comparatively easy as many never ask for a receipt.

athtrasna

Mod note

Can we get back on topic please. This thread drifts off on completely non relevant tangents on an almost daily basis and is becoming a time sink for the moderation team.

foggy_lad

Senator Palpatine wrote: »

My tenants were paying €1,200 a month and could have paid that as long as they want (which I understand would have been another two years).

Now they're paying €1,500 a month which they can barely afford.

How is that to their benefit?

You have to think that if they can barely afford the increase then what will you do when they just stop paying and drag you through a year long(at least) eviction process and leave eventually owing all that rent and probably a need to do a deep clean and redecorate the property before re-letting?

athtrasna

foggy_lad wrote: »

You have to think that if they can barely afford the increase then what will you do when they just stop paying and drag you through a year long(at least) eviction process and leave eventually owing all that rent and probably a need to do a deep clean and redecorate the property before re-letting?

Poster is site banned so won't be replying!

Graham

foggy_lad wrote: »

You have to think that if they can barely afford the increase then what will you do when they just stop paying and drag you through a year long(at least) eviction process and leave eventually owing all that rent and probably a need to do a deep clean and redecorate the property before re-letting?

Cool horror story but the vast majority of tenants move out if they can no longer afford the rent.

murphaph

Graham wrote: »

Cool horror story but the vast majority of tenants move out if they can no longer afford the rent.

It only takes one to really really ruin your day year. We had an overholding commercial tenant. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Graham

murphaph wrote: »

It only takes one to really really ruin your day year. We had an overholding commercial tenant. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Neither would I but lets be realistic about the probability of it actually happening in response to a rent increase.

I've no doubt there maybe a slight increase but to suggest landlords should consistently charge below market rates for fear of it happening is just not realistic.

Selik

Would a 1 bed apartment renovation costing approx 12-15k (new bathroom, kitchen, heaters, floors etc) count as a substantial renovation under the new rental rules does anyone know?

The_Conductor

Giles wrote: »

Would a 1 bed apartment renovation costing approx 12-15k (new bathroom, kitchen, heaters, floors etc) count as a substantial renovation under the new rental rules does anyone know?

Its a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' question. Its not defined anywhere. I might consider it to be a substantial renovation- someone else, may disagree......... Its a renovation certainly. I wouldn't get hung up over the 'substantial' word. Some people might imagine substantial means structural work- I don't.

GGTrek

Giles wrote: »

Would a 1 bed apartment renovation costing approx 12-15k (new bathroom, kitchen, heaters, floors etc) count as a substantial renovation under the new rental rules does anyone know?

A full renovation almost for sure, in reality anything that increases the capital value of the property, even a brand new kitchen. However a full renovation like yours will likely allow you to put the rent up to full market rent, while just a new kitchen would probably not be considered enough. Unfortunately there is no RTB tribunal case law on this since until the recent amendments any landlord could review rent up to market rent once every two years without having to justify the reason for the rent review (red tape is exploding in Ireland)
What is easier to decide is the following case: you have sitting tenant and you need to perform a renovation of some kind. Which type of renovation allows you to terminate the tenancy? The test is quite simple actually, any renovation that while performed will cause a "long" break of the Housing standard regulations 2008-2009:
http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/FileDownLoad%2C33422%2Cen.pdf
So for example refurbishing fully a bathroom will allow you to provide notice of termination, since the tenant cannot stay for many days without bathroom facilities. However you will have to offer back the property to the sitting tenant once the property has been renovated, but you can definitely propose a different rent in the new lease due to the renovation work (the old lease is gone in this case and the new lease cannot be considered a continuation of the old one). The important part is that you offer a choice of a new lease to the old tenant with a deadline to accept it (to be on the safe side 14 days minimum deadline is the magic number in RTB cases).

Selik

Thanks for the feedback in fact my tenants are moving out at some point of their own accord as they are buying their own place. I don't know when exactly (they are sale agreed) but they are welcome to stay as long as they want if something goes wrong on their end, however if they leave as expected the place is long overdue a proper renovation and there will be no better stage to do it.

They are currently paying way below market rent (and have been for quite some time) and locked into this for another year however if I get new tenants after the renovations are complete I intend to charge the market rate and just want to make sure that this is all above board (although as been mentioned before there will be no way for the new tenants to know what the old rent was regardless, the PRTB don't even know to my knowledge). I will also be looking into other options like renting the car space separately for example, something other people in the apartment block do anyway.

Graham

marsbar1 wrote: »

I don't see the fuss from landlords. 4% is a big rise per year - way above inflation.

That and the accompanying cap on property prices should certainly ensure a constant stream of new rental properties to address the real lack of supply issues.

Oh wait.....

murphaph

Giles wrote: »

Would a 1 bed apartment renovation costing approx 12-15k (new bathroom, kitchen, heaters, floors etc) count as a substantial renovation under the new rental rules does anyone know?

I thought the wording in the act was changed to something about substantial change in accommodation provided, rather than renovation. All so woolly and vague. It'd be hard for a new tenant to prove the accommodation hadn't been improved significantly even if you had just painted it.

The_Conductor

murphaph wrote: »

I thought the wording in the act was changed to something about substantial change in accommodation provided, rather than renovation. All so woolly and vague. It'd be hard for a new tenant to prove the accommodation hadn't been improved significantly even if you had just painted it.

'Substantial' though- is open to interpretation- and you can be sure as hell that any given tenant and any given landlord are not going to agree on what 'substantial' entails. If you try to tie it down- you're simply opening a pandoras box- e.g. if you say 'substantial' renovations are those that involve workmen on site for a period of not less than 12 working days- you simply get Vinnie the carpenter on half days for a month to build that stairs, a couple of book cases, reconstitute a few partition walls- and bob's your uncle- you've fulfilled the criteria.

marsbar1

Graham wrote: »

That and the accompanying cap on property prices should certainly ensure a constant stream of new rental properties to address the real lack of supply issues.

Oh wait.....

I don't understand the point you are making. I haven't been following the Irish news for some time. I do know Ireland still has a lot of empty houses. Are you talking about a lack of supply or rental stock or stock to buy? Cap on prices? Are you talking about the central bank mortgage rules on salary multiples?

athtrasna

marsbar1 wrote: »

I don't understand the point you are making. I haven't been following the Irish news for some time. I do know Ireland still has a lot of empty houses. Are you talking about a lack of supply or rental stock or stock to buy? Cap on prices? Are you talking about the central bank mortgage rules on salary multiples?

All off topic! Please get back to the subject of the thread

Selik

I think I will take before and after pictures just in case.

76544567

Definitely take before and after pictures.

About a year and a half ago, I changed all flooring in an apartment and also replaced the kitchen. The bathroom was re-tiled also.
And the whole apartment painted afterwards.
It took two weeks, cost thousands and required the property to be empty throughout that time.
Not that I care anymore because im selling, but that is substantial in anybodies language and can only really be carried out between tenancies.
So if I was to do that now I would be expecting that I could charge market rent to recoup the costs of it.

So, if I was staying in the business nowadays I would not even think of doing such renovation or upkeep while the rent is locked. There is just no opportunity to recoup that investment, not even paining. And god forbid, interest rates went up if you had a mortgage. Money and time spent are just not redeemable anymore. There needs to be a return on investment.
The only repairs would be to the essentials.

I read on other message boards that landlords are thinking like this and harsher even, the talk is that all lets now will be
having only the bare essentials in them. Maybe even renting the furniture as a separate item to the tenants under a different contract and charging delivery, unless the tenant wants to bring their own contents instead.
Letting without Seating, tables, beds, mattresses, Curtains etc. Basically unfurnished.
Less to break or need replacing. If you cant recoup the money spent, no point investing it.

Im still interested to see if the IPOA are going to make a move all the same.

sublime1

Mods, I apologise if this is not in order to post here after so long, but this was the best thread for following this topic after Christmas, and I'm curious as to how people are seeing the situation develop since then.

For myself, I have noticed a huge drop off in the number of rental properties being advertised on Daft in my area. Where previously you would notice a few per week, now I see maybe one or two per month. It's quite a dramatic change, and I'm curious as to what people think is going on. Are landlords not renting at all, or are they just being careful not to rent using Daft?

Have the IPOA and other landlord organisations made any statements yet? It's been 4 months now, surely they've said something?

In general, how are other landlords coping with these new caps? How do people see this playing out?

Thestart

sublime1 wrote: »

Mods, I apologise if this is not in order to post here after so long, but this was the best thread for following this topic after Christmas, and I'm curious as to how people are seeing the situation develop since then.

For myself, I have noticed a huge drop off in the number of rental properties being advertised on Daft in my area. Where previously you would notice a few per week, now I see maybe one or two per month. It's quite a dramatic change, and I'm curious as to what people think is going on. Are landlords not renting at all, or are they just being careful not to rent using Daft?

Have the IPOA and other landlord organisations made any statements yet? It's been 4 months now, surely they've said something?

In general, how are other landlords coping with these new caps? How do people see this playing out?

I think the reason fewer properties are for rent is fewer tenants are moving as It's so difficult to find accommodation and what you can get is generally a lot more expensive.

From what I can see in d15 a lot of landlords are doing the minimum renovations required to up the rent to market level.
I see very few units for rent below market rates. The cost of renovating is less than the rent increases so the cap in not really working as hoped due to the extremely severe lack of properties.

The_Conductor

Thestart wrote: »

I think the reason fewer properties are for rent is fewer tenants are moving as It's so difficult to find accommodation and what you can get is generally a lot more expensive.

From what I can see in d15 a lot of landlords are doing the minimum renovations required to up the rent to market level.
I see very few units for rent below market rates. The cost of renovating is less than the rent increases so the cap in not really working as hoped due to the extremely severe lack of properties.

Combination of factors- but alongside the above- there is a perception among many landlords, particularly in the Dublin area, that prices in the greater Dublin area have peaked- and a significant cohort of landlords are offloading property in as orderly a fashion as possible, and paying down debt.

The Dublin market has divorced itself from the rest of the country- and while still rising- is doing so at far more genteel rates than the rest of the country- but some people are viewing it as 'the writing on the wall'- and alongside quite an incredibly hostile regulatory environment towards landlords, don't see the merit in remaining in the market.

The flipside of the coin is- this is feeding some properties into the second hand market- particularly in some areas like West Dublin- however, if you look at the pricedrop updates from DAFT- you'll see some very interesting trends- notably, secondhand asking prices are taking a tumble (in a lot of cases people's expectations were simply too high- but 10-15-20% drops in asking price in West Dublin- *for second hand property* are becoming the norm.

One silver lining to all of this- is small contractors who work on renovations and upgrades (think attic conversions/insulation/new bathrooms/kitchens etc) have never been so busy- there are several small contractors from Galway driving up and down to the Lucan area daily- such is the volume of business.

Of course- a correction was overdue- and it is a targetted correction- i.e. location, which you'd imagine to be key, was ignored in many cases over the last few years- in the chase for limited supply- now, location is the determinent of a property holding its value- or falling.

Of course- new builds- are being supported by the government schemes- and showing healthy growth among first time buyers- however, if they come to sell them down the road- it beggars belief that they'll hold their value.

jamesthepeach

I have to move out of the apartment that I'm renting now as the landlord has decided to do airbnb.

It's not the end of the world as I have a couple of rental s ofy own and have given one tenant notice and will move in there for a while until I can rent closer to work again.

But I think I'm going to get out of the rental business myself. I might do airbnb as my properties are set at far below market rates so no point ever making improvements or anything that costs me money as I'll never recover money spent anymore.

I know one person who has stripped his property of all furniture, even bed, and rented it. He says this is what you get for below market rate rent. Nothing that can break or cost him money that he can't recover in the rent. I think he has the right idea, but I still think it's better to do short term letting so that the rent caps and all the rules don't hurt you.

He's also charging them €1200 per year for the parking permit. He gets it off his management company and passes it on to the tenant for that price. He only rented it to a tenant who agreed to that every year in the lease. So that's how he gets above the 4% increase for now.

I'll probably go with airbnb myself when one of my properties is available again because there is just so many pitfalls and rules to follow now with the RTB . It's just not worth it to me.

Lux23

76544567 wrote: »

Definitely take before and after pictures.

Im still interested to see if the IPOA are going to make a move all the same.

They did and this happened.

http://www.ccpc.ie/news/2017-01-20-ccpc-concludes-investigation-ipoa-following-retraction-signed-undertaking

You have to make your own business decisions. I don't think the IPOA can make them for you.

size5

I just sold my BTL in Dublin 8 why?--unfavourable regulation towards landlords BUT more importantly the market price. Apartment sold and deal done in 12 weeks. My tenants(whom were excellent) have had to move towards Lucan.

Where I live in the past 3 months a number of rented houses have gone on the market(these are family homes), and they have gone sale agreed very quickly. Again this is landlords getting out on the market putting more pressure existing rental market.