Landlords, what have you decided to do about the new amendments?

murphaph

Sure why not.

goz83

Does the 4% rent cap per year apply even when a tenancy is ending, making way for a new tenancy? So, if someone is renting a property for 1k pm now and their tenant leaves in June, can the LL not increase the asking rent rate for any new tenancy to say 1200 if he/she wants to?

If not, many LLs currently charging way below market rates is going to be badly stuck

Graham

goz83 wrote: »

If not, many LLs currently charging way below market rates is going to be badly stuck

Looks like that's exactly what's going to happen.

GGTrek

sublime1 wrote: »

Thanks for the response. On the day the existing tenants move out, it will have been 2 years since the last rent increase.
Can I still issue a rent increase notice to tenants who have already given me their notice to leave?

Yes you can, it is ridicolous but you can:). What is ridicolous is not you, but the new ill thought rushed new red tape that forces people like you to jump through this kind of hoops.

sublime1

I have to admit that I'm not up to date on the latest rules (I'm out of the country). Would an email suffice or does it have to be a letter?

Lux23

I would imagine if its a new tenancy you can charge what you like, sure who would be able to complain about it anyway?

76544567

sublime1 wrote: »

I have to admit that I'm not up to date on the latest rules (I'm out of the country). Would an email suffice or does it have to be a letter?

Well anyone not in a pressure zone should be upping their rent to the maximum possible as soon as they can, because they will be next, and there is.nothing you can do about it after they decide you are next for the block.

Market rent means nothing anymore either. Because two identical properties beside each other could have a 50% difference in rent thanks to Covent.

murphaph

Lux23 wrote: »

I would imagine if its a new tenancy you can charge what you like, sure who would be able to complain about it anyway?

The new rulez sayz you can't charge what you like. I agree that initially this will be difficult to enforce as the RTB won't know what your previous rent was as very few if any LLs update that information when the rent is increased.

You could however find yourself in hot water if your new tenant decided to make it his business to find out the previous rent and take you to the RTB cleaners for "overcharging".

Jayesdiem

What if the new tenancy agreement has been signed already?

brownej

This law is being rushed in because of the lack of availability of rental properties and the spiralling prices.
Unfortunately it looks as if some of the landlord here will have "missed the boat" to get "market rate" for their properties.
This whole situation is just going to get messier. The supply is going to be further restricted due to increases in short term lets and air B&Bs.
The landlords that did manage to increase their rent to the max will also be in trouble. One can argue that these rental levels are becoming unaffordable and renters have no choice but to accept the new terms but then not abide by them. This will lead to a deluge of people unable to pay the rent and large amounts of overholding once terminations have been issued. The PRTB had better increase their staffing levels....
Its already started to affect the wider economy with companies reviewing their Dublin operations as their staff can't afford to live here or just cant move here as they can't find places to live.
The short term huge hikes in rent we have seen recently may yet prove to be very short sighted for small landlords. All the more reason I suppose to get out now!

KyussBeeshop

murphaph wrote: »

Nope. Not even sure a stand alone house requires change of use for this. According to the citizens information crowd only a B&B with more than 4 bedrooms requires PP. Not sure what exactly an airbnb is legally classed as and why it would be different to a B&B (it's the B without the second B at the end of the day).

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/planning_permission/planning_perm_altering_a_house.html

The Temple Bar property that sparked the lawsuit with the council, only had two beds - here, the deputy planning officer Mary Conway, has said:

"In any other case that seems very similar or identical - that is where somebody has an apartment and is now letting it out on a continual basis as a holiday let and where they are not resident, then based on this ruling we will consider that would be a material change of use and therefore if permission has not been granted then that person then may be liable to enforcement proceedings.”

“If you’re doing it full time on a continuous basis - in this case it was happening for upwards of a year - then we would consider that to be a material change of use,” she said.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/simon-coveney-to-give-councils-clarity-after-airbnb-ruling-1.2836660

Sounds pretty much identical to what people are planning to do in this thread.

So, people in this thread need to get planning permission before they move to continual (> 1 year) use of AirBnB - otherwise that would be an illegal change of use of their property.

Are people here planning to do this, to seek planning permission?

Graham

KyussBeeshop wrote: »

So, people in this thread need to get planning permission before they move to continual (> 1 year) use of AirBnB - otherwise that would be an illegal change of use of their property.

Are people here planning to do this, to seek planning permission?

That would be my understanding too but so far it appears that DCC are taking a very relaxed approach to enforcing it.

It's looking more likely that other influences could have a much bigger/faster impact on AirBnB properties, particularly:

1) OMCs enforcing provisions in head leases that forbid holiday/short-term lettings.
2) AirBnB changing their own rules to limit rentals to a specific number of days per year (or similar restrictions). Something they have done in several other jurisdictions where it appears legislation could force their hand.

Either of these factors could instantly cut the legs from under a large number of AirBnB landlords and force them all back to the long-term rental market in a rather large lump.

KyussBeeshop

True, but worth concentrating on the fact that it is still illegal without planning permission - and that in the context of this thread, it does not seem likely that many landlords discussing AirBnB, are going to be seeking permission.

76544567

I'll be happy to take 90 days on airbnb and leave it empty for the rest of the year.
Or just to rent it to someone who is not going to live in it and they can do airbnb or whatever they like with it.
I'm.not renting to the RTB anymore.

murphaph

KyussBeeshop wrote: »

The Temple Bar property that sparked the lawsuit with the council, only had two beds - here, the deputy planning officer Mary Conway, has said:

"In any other case that seems very similar or identical - that is where somebody has an apartment and is now letting it out on a continual basis as a holiday let and where they are not resident, then based on this ruling we will consider that would be a material change of use and therefore if permission has not been granted then that person then may be liable to enforcement proceedings.”[/url]

Sounds pretty much identical to what people are planning to do in this thread.

So, people in this thread need to get planning permission before they move to continual (> 1 year) use of AirBnB - otherwise that would be an illegal change of use of their property.

Are people here planning to do this, to seek planning permission?

The council specifically said "apartment" and I specifically said "house".

murphaph

Graham wrote: »

Either of these factors could instantly cut the legs from under a large number of AirBnB landlords and force them all back to the long-term rental market in a rather large lump.

There's half a dozen "short term flat rental" Facebook groups for Berlin alone, where airbnb is banned. These have simply replaced airbnb.

Graham

murphaph wrote: »

The council specifically said "apartment" and I specifically said "house".

I can't help but think planning permission applies to houses as much as it does apartments.

Graham

murphaph wrote: »

There's half a dozen "short term flat rental" Facebook groups for Berlin alone, where airbnb is banned. These have simply replaced airbnb.

and I'm sure there would be similar groups setup if Dublin/Ireland went down a similar path. I can't imagine they would have anything like the reach of AirBnB nor would they help in developments where OMCs/management companies were doing the enforcing.

murphaph

Graham wrote: »

I can't help but think planning permission applies to houses as much as it does apartments.

Of course but even starting a B&B with less than 5 beds seems to require no planning permission. Even if it did, it's as good as unenforceable. Councils like Kilkenny don't even have 1 full time enforcement officer! And somebody would need to lodge a complaint first for there to be anything to investigate.

Apartments are different and if I had one I wouldn't impose on the other residents by turning my unit into an airbnb. A house with it's own access is completely different and none of my neighbours' business so long as the guests keep themselves to themselves. ☺

murphaph

Graham wrote: »

and I'm sure there would be similar groups setup if Dublin/Ireland went down a similar path. I can't imagine they would have anything like the reach of AirBnB nor would they help in developments where OMCs/management companies were doing the enforcing.

Agreed but if airbnb is not operating then fewer LL will go down the short term letting route to begin with, so you'll have less competition if you do.

handlemaster

Agents fees and max increase under this new system

76544567

handlemaster wrote: »

Agents fees and max increase under this new system

I cut my agent who was managing the properties out because of this.
He was very understanding. Told me if I wanted him to manage the short term letting via airbnb or whatever that he would do it. Also told me that one option for next lettings is that the rent is set and all agent fees and management fees are paid by the tenant. That will be written up as an agreement between tenant and agent and nothing to do with the landlord in future.

This way I dont have to pay the 10 - 12% agent management fee every month. Nor do I have to pay the 1 month finders fee. The tenant will pay that directly to the agent and sign a contract with them for the ongoing management fee.
I will have nothing to do with that side of it.

Sounds like a good plan, but only good for the next letting. no good for current ones. And thats if I was to keep it as a long term rental. But i doubt I will be. I'll either be selling up or going with some sort of model that doesnt involve the RTB and all this stupid red tape and stifling rules.

syndrome777

brownej wrote: »

This law is being rushed in because of the lack of availability of rental properties and the spiralling prices.
Unfortunately it looks as if some of the landlord here will have "missed the boat" to get "market rate" for their properties.
This whole situation is just going to get messier. The supply is going to be further restricted due to increases in short term lets and air B&Bs.
The landlords that did manage to increase their rent to the max will also be in trouble. One can argue that these rental levels are becoming unaffordable and renters have no choice but to accept the new terms but then not abide by them. This will lead to a deluge of people unable to pay the rent and large amounts of overholding once terminations have been issued. The PRTB had better increase their staffing levels....

on this note, can someone clarify something for me.

My LL is a big company and they advised we will be getting mails with rent reviews tomorrow. It will be way more then 4 % and will be commencing in April.
Do I have any leverage in negotiating lower rent as by my understanding If I don't sign this until April and leave he can only raise the rent for new tenants by 4%?
I live in D8. not a really nice par of it, so not to thrilled of LL raising rent just cuz the market is crazy right now

tuisginideach

Why would you have to sign it/What would you be signing? The LL is telling you of a rent review. There is nothing for you to sign, as far as I know.

Sleeper12

_Brian wrote:

I'd be concerned about charging the redecoration fee up front, a poor tenant may take this as a signal that no care needs to be taken of the decoration currently in place..

I could see tenant not caring at all about ruining the paint work with this approach

tuisginideach wrote:

But surely he can't bring that in retrospectively? That would be absolutely farcical!!!.

They couldn't do something like that could they? <mod snip>

76544567

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I could see tenant not caring at all about ruining the paint work with this approach

That wouldnt matter because they would have paid up front for the redecoration before they even moved in. If they want to destroy the paint then they have to look at it until they move out.

I know of several rental companies who charge this redecoration fee in advance. It is fixed, and paid before you even get the key. Also ther is provision in the contract that should you do damage that comes over and above what you have paid for redecoration, then that comes out of your deposit.

Sleeper12

76544567 wrote:

That wouldnt matter because they would have paid up front for the redecoration before they even moved in. If they want to destroy the paint then they have to look at it until they move out.

I understand that. I thought charging upfront in this thread was a way to get a little more money than the 4% and the hope of not having to decorate afterwards. I must have picked it up wrong

the_syco

myshirt wrote: »

Why game the system? Ethics anyone?

As the saying goes; respect works both ways. If the government tries to screw you over, you try to screw the government over.

Further more, if the landlord does anything stupid, it's often illegal, and they'll get charged for it. If the tenant does anything stupid (decide not to pay rent), they can get away scot free, and not lose money over it.

doopa wrote: »

Why is it a terrible plan? Professionalism and standards will surely increase the level of service provided?

Yes, for large apartment buildings. For smaller properties (houses, etc), I can't see the investment firms renting them out. It's also not a good idea to let to people on RA, as it's not a secure source of income (government has fcuked up in the past, and the landlords don't get the missed rent; LL gets no rent, but no fault of the tenant), so they won't take them on. It's illegal to not letting to RA people because they're on RA, but it's not illegal to not let people on RA for some other reason.

doopa wrote: »

If you still think investing in property in Ireland is feasible then you can join one of these funds? You aren't prevented from investing in property.

They won't be investing in property, They'd have shares in a faceless property firm.

murphaph wrote: »

If small time landlords are edged out you can kiss goodbye to finding rental accommodation outside the cities and large towns.

RA tenants would also find it impossible to get a place to rent.

76544567

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I understand that. I thought charging upfront in this thread was a way to get a little more money than the 4% and the hope of not having to decorate afterwards. I must have picked it up wrong

It's more a method of separating the rent from other costs.

Sleeper12

<mod snip>

There are all sorts of landlords. Some are terrible, cheap and can care less about the tenant. I've seen landlords taking furniture out of skips for their rental property.
There are accidental landlords who might not understand the game and just want out asap. These aren't making any money anyway.
There are also some very good landlords. When something needs repairing the tradesman gets a call that day. Some landlords haven't been charging top rates when they could. To me a good landlord will look at their property and ask themselves would I be happy if my daughter or mother lived here. If the answer is no then its time to spend some money.
If I go to the cyclists forum sometimes the cyclists can sound horrible. Cyclists are perfect and motorists are always the bad guys.
I think you came into this forum at the wrong time. Not all landlords are bad