Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VIII: May the Fourth Star Be With You!

Stan27

Stan27 wrote: »

Is leavy a 6 or 7 long term.

He'll need to keep playing both in case someone suggests he isn't versatile.

shuffol

Stan27 wrote: »

Is leavy a 6 or 7 long term.

I think him and VDF can fulfill either role but both are more natural 7s. I think it depends on the makeup of the backrow.

Noticeable how they went with Ruddock today when SOB dropped out, had Leavy been injured I'd imagine VDF would've been the one to come in.

Kevski

shuffol wrote: »

I think him and VDF can fulfill either role but both are more natural 7s. I think it depends on the makeup of the backrow.

Noticeable how they went with Ruddock today when SOB dropped out, had Leavy been injured I'd imagine VDF would've been the one to come in.

I could be wrong but aside from pre-season when he played at 8 for a bit, VDF has played exclusively at 7. I think that SOB would have started at 7 and Leavy at 6 on Sunday, and that it would still have been Ruddock coming in to cover 6 if it had been Leavy who was injured*.

*currently sitting on a wooden chair so it's ok to make that hypothetical statement :pac:

CMOTDibbler

More of this sort of thing from Leavy would be very welcome. Also Toner obvs.

The Lost Sheep

Stan27 wrote: »

Is leavy a 6 or 7 long term.

I think the answer is the same as when you last asked this.
He will play both in the short to medium time and could end up playing both. All depends on make up of back row wanted or needed for a specific game. Its all about the unit and how players combine with each other anyway..

irishbucsfan

Imagine the young heads exploding right now that McFadden and Kirchner travel ahead of the consistent, indestructible, unquestionable, wolverine like Adam Byrne.

I'm actually snortling on my mocha of choice. Just wait for the pages and pages of hyperbole and hysteria with a dash of knee jerk topped off with imho.

It makes the Academys rewarding of contracts even more laughable and nostalgic.

Sweet dinners chaps.

Buer

I see what you did there.

pickarooney

Stan27 wrote: »

Is leavy a 6 or 7 long term.

Back row play is being redefined all the time. Wales and Australia play two sevens and a six/eight, France play three eights... SOB, Murphy are a mixture of all three, POM could be anything... Whatever gets our best players functioning as a unit.

stephen_n

I think one of the big driving factors this year has been the hunger of the young guys coming up. Though the backrow lacks experience I think all three are capeable of big performances. Although it would be nice to have the experience that SOB and Jamie would bring, I'm expecting a really big performance from the three lads. This may well be a season too soon for this young team, but I think win or lose this will stand to us hugely going forward. So it may not be ideal but it is also a big positive in terms of developing our squad.

Clegg

Disappointing end to the European season. That game was there for the taking but we lacked a bit of composure​ in the second half and gave Clermont some easy points. Having said that, I still think our performance in that half was excellent and hopefully it will stand by the younger lads in the squad.

Got our selection wrong today though. McFadden was poor and Strauss had a howler. Neither justified their selection and I hope we reinstate Byrne into the 23. He offers so much more than Ferg in attack.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Clegg wrote: »

Disappointing end to the European season. That game was there for the taking but we lacked a bit of composure​ in the second half and gave Clermont some easy points. Thought we were excellent in the second half and hopefully that performance will stand by the younger lads in the squad.

Got our selection wrong today though. McFadden was poor and Strauss had a howler. Neither justified their selection and I hope we reinstate Byrne into the 23. He offers so much more than Ferg in attack.

Agreed on Strauss.

For me he has never gotten back to his form from before his heart surgery. Would definitely be my 3rd choice at Leinster.

Not so sure on McFadden. He didn't perform but he wasn't really bad. Zane Kitchener didn't deserve a place in the 23 and didn't prove us wrong at all when he got a shot.

Neil3030

A call is needed on Carbery, imo. Do you have him invest the bulk of his work-ons on full-back related skills? Sexton and Kearney Sr have similar age and injury profiles, so we'll need a long term starting option at both spots. It's a tough call.

CIARAN_BOYLE

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Agreed on Strauss.

For me he has never gotten back to his form from before his heart surgery. Would definitely be my 3rd choice at Leinster.

Not so sure on McFadden. He didn't perform but he wasn't really bad. Zane Kitchener didn't deserve a place in the 23 and didn't prove us wrong at all when he got a shot.

Also not to let Strauss off the hook but the back row are not stepping up at lineout time. Ruddock used be a lot better in the air (almost rivalling POM) than he has been recently.

This needs to be resolved. If Ruddock (or Leavy who is 6 foot 3 I believe) can step up in this regard it can hide some wobbles at lineout time.

durthacht

Neil3030 wrote: »

A call is needed on Carbery, imo. Do you have him invest the bulk of his work-ons on full-back related skills? Sexton and Kearney Sr have similar age and injury profiles, so we'll need a long term starting option at both spots. It's a tough call.

I think so. Best chance of getting him on the pitch regularly is at FB as Sexton will always start at fly half in big games. Carbery is too good for just playing fly half in mid season league games, then standing down for the big games. Ross Byrne is grand for that.

If everyone is fit, it's tough to see Carbery selected of Sexton but not so hard to see him selected ahead of Kearney.

Squidgy Black

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Also not to let Strauss off the hook but the back row are not stepping up at lineout time. Ruddock used be a lot better in the air (almost rivalling POM) than he has been recently.

This needs to be resolved. If Ruddock (or Leavy who is 6 foot 3 I believe) can step up in this regard it can hide some wobbles at lineout time.

Strauss' throws were way off the pace. It wasn't the jumpers not getting up in the air, they were just straight overthrows.

CIARAN_BOYLE

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

Strauss' throws were way off the pace. It wasn't the jumpers not getting up in the air, they were just straight overthrows.

I know that's why I said not to let Strauss off the hook.

thebaz

Clegg wrote: »

Strauss had a howler. Neither justified their selection and I hope we reinstate Byrne into the 23. He offers so much more than Ferg in attack.

Leo Cullen has been a great coach this year , but why Cronin was not selected is beyond me , barring injury he is way better than a very average Strauss.

Nigel Owens did us very few if any favours today ; thought we played the better rugby and for that we can proud (when I started playing/watching - France always played the better rugby , not anymore , delighted for Rigrose.

Tim Robbins

Neil3030 wrote: »

A call is needed on Carbery, imo. Do you have him invest the bulk of his work-ons on full-back related skills? Sexton and Kearney Sr have similar age and injury profiles, so we'll need a long term starting option at both spots. It's a tough call.

So far I think the experiment of Carbery at Full Back has been more successful than Madigan at 15.

He is just way too good and needs to be on the pitch as much as possible.

stephen_n

durthacht wrote: »

I think so. Best chance of getting him on the pitch regularly is at FB as Sexton will always start at fly half in big games. Carbery is too good for just playing fly half in mid season league games, then standing down for the big games. Ross Byrne is grand for that.

If everyone is fit, it's tough to see Carbery selected of Sexton but not so hard to see him selected ahead of Kearney.

I would have thought his performance today would show exactly why he won't be replacing Kearney anytime soon. For all his strengths in attack, his positioning and his fielding require a lot of work. Clermont went after him today with high balls and he was found wanting a few times. Kearney is an absolute deterant from teams doing that.

Clegg

Carbery is worth sticking with at FB if only for the unfortunate reality that we can't rely on Kearney to stay fit for a prolonged period of time.

Carbery at 15 is a reactionary measure, not a plan. He absolutely wants to play 10 and is very much viewed as a 10 by Leinster.

He could spend time at provincial level learning his trade at 15 but realistically I think Lowe / Larmour will be the ones to replace Kearney, not Carbery.

Lads, were in seriously rude health, I think 2018 - 2020 are years where we can be favourites for silverware at pro12 and Euro level.

I hope Tres-zee has spent the weekend throwing darts and does so every weekend until the start of next season because we need a hooker with a reliable set piece. If it was Flannery instead of ROG going on the summer tour I'd be delighted as its any area where we've been continuously weak as a province.

Buer

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

Strauss' throws were way off the pace. It wasn't the jumpers not getting up in the air, they were just straight overthrows.

I'll need to see them again but reckon you're correct. He absolutely fired that first one over the top. Toner could be 7'10" and not get near it. When it was gathered it had gone miles past the tail of the line such was the force put on the throw.

He looked very nervous. One of those things that hookers do when they've the yips is to fire it in to try and ensure the opposition can't get up to it in time. The problem is that if it's off target, forget about your own jumper getting near it.

Buer

stephen_n wrote: »

I would have thought his performance today would show exactly why he won't be replacing Kearney anytime soon. For all his strengths in attack, his positioning and his fielding require a lot of work. Clermont went after him today with high balls and he was found wanting a few times. Kearney is an absolute deterant from teams doing that.

If he's going to play there, he needs to be persisted with and work on his aerial game. There were a couple of contestable kicks in the first half where he hesitantly came from deep, called them and then they bounced before he got there. Kearney might not have caught them (probably would have) but he'd have been exploding onto the ball and contesting it.

With that said, the footwork, the attacking threat, the extra playmaking option....it's such an attractive tactic to have that I'd love to see him work with Kearney to get his game up to speed and be a real option at 15.

Especially if Ross Byrne continues to develop at 10.

Clegg

Looking forward to the Pro 12 run in. We already have a home semi-final so the final rounds of regular season fixtures should be dedicated to resting the lads who started today but giving them enough game time together for the semi.

We've an excellent chance of winning the league. Our forwards will be hurting after the number Clermont did on them at the breakdown. I doubt we'll see that done to us again this season. Bring Byrne back into the side and we'll have a proper threat out wide again. We actually made a decent amount of metres out wide today despite the lack of pace on the wing. I want to see us exploit our pit and out speedster.

Squidgy Black

Buer wrote: »

I'll need to see them again but reckon you're correct. He absolutely fired that first one over the top. Toner could be 7'10" and not get near it. When it was gathered it had gone miles past the tail of the line such was the force put on the throw.

He looked very nervous. One of those things that hookers do when they've the yips is to fire it in to try and ensure the opposition can't get up to it in time. The problem is that if it's off target, forget about your own jumper getting near it.

He hasn't been on form with the set piece since he returned from injury. You can see his release is too quick, it's a combination of not being in time with the pods, which in fairness theres been a lot of swapping and changing in the lineout, and also as you say wanting to just get it in fast to prevent the steal.

I just think we'd be much better off going with Tracey or Byrne, would rather see the occasional blunder from a young guy getting more experience than an old pro who's past their prime.

Buer

It's a real blessing that we have the home semi final secured already. That gives us until May 20th to get people fit again. Who knows who might be available to us at that point?

For Glasgow, I think the vast majority of the starting team from today need to be given a break even those who haven't played for a couple of weeks before today. It could be a good opportunity to give some other guys a run.

Given the injuries in one or two areas, I think some lads will have to feature next week on the bench but, given the 5 day turnaround, nobody who started today should start this game. We're badly stuck at No. 8 though...Timmins is the only one that I can think of as an option?

I would expect something along the lines of:

Dooley, Cronin, Bent, Molony, Kearney, Ryan, VDF, Timmins, JGP, Byrne, Daly, Reid, ROL, Byrne, Kirchner.

I wouldn't mind seeing a little caution to the wind given the game is dead rubber for us. Be happy to see Tom Daly start instead of Reid, perhaps. Or go all out and throw Larmour in to give him a taste of this level.

stephen_n

Buer wrote: »

If he's going to play there, he needs to be persisted with and work on his aerial game. There were a couple of contestable kicks in the first half where he hesitantly came from deep, called them and then they bounced before he got there. Kearney might not have caught them (probably would have) but he'd have been exploding onto the ball and contesting it.

With that said, the footwork, the attacking threat, the extra playmaking option....it's such an attractive tactic to have that I'd love to see him work with Kearney to get his game up to speed and be a real option at 15.

Especially if Ross Byrne continues to develop at 10.

I've no problem with that, but the suggestion was that he should be replacing Kearney and I don't think he's there yet. Hopefully working with RK and ISA in training will help his development. Though for now if fit RK should be our starting 15 in big games.

durthacht

Deleted User wrote: »

Carbery at 15 is a reactionary measure, not a plan. He absolutely wants to play 10 and is very much viewed as a 10 by Leinster.

He could spend time at provincial level learning his trade at 15 but realistically I think Lowe / Larmour will be the ones to replace Kearney, not Carbery.

...

Is that true though? Cullen had other options so it seemed to be a proactive decision to play Carbery at 15 ahead of those other options - such as Nacewa at FB.

I guess I'd just rather see him on the pitch in big games instead of just backup to Sexton. He just seems too good for that.

Clegg

Probably too early to throw Deegan is, especially against a tough side like Glasgow. Can see him making the bench though. Ruddock, Leavy and Conan should.probably be given a rest. VdF will start and probably Ryan as well.

LEIN

I am reasonably optimistic TBH, a hard loss today but the young guys will learn.

I feel we are building and the future is looking ver positive.

CMOTDibbler

I think since he started in the six nations, Sexton has missed one kick in twenty. The one was against Wasps.

Clegg

I'm very optimistic about our chances over the next few years. The obvious thing to point to is Lowe and Fardy coming in to give us some extra class out wide and power up front. On paper they're two quality additions and this can't be overlooked. I think the acquisition of Fardy could be a huge one. Toner has come on far more than I thought he ever would but his limitations are obvious. He lacks power and can be rather plodding around the pitch.

Carbery, Henshaw, Ringrose and Byrne are very exciting young talents and will only get better with more experience. I'm hoping next season Byrne will begin to establish himself as a starting wing. Plus Larmour, Ryan, Deegan and Porter to start pushing on.

There's a great mix of youth and experience in the squad and a truck load of talent there.

.ak

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I think since he started in the six nations, Sexton has missed one kick in twenty. The one was against Wasps.

He's been incredibly consistent this season. I reckon he's nailed his place on the starting Lions XV.

AbusesToilets

Think Ruddock has to be nailed on as a starter going forward, consistently the best performing backrow in the team. I'd have him, SOB, Heaslip/Conán and whoever is going best between Leavy and VdF on the bench.

I'd make Ruddock captain going forward next season too tbh. Already a role he's filled numerous times and he's a natural leader on the pitch.

.ak

Clegg wrote: »

I'm very optimistic about our chances over the next few years. The obvious thing to point to is Lowe and Fardy coming in to give us some extra class out wide and power up front. On paper they're two quality additions and this can't be overlooked. I think the acquisition of Fardy could be a huge one. Toner has come on far more than I thought he ever would but his limitations are obvious. He lacks power and can be rather plodding around the pitch.

Carbery, Henshaw, Ringrose and Byrne are very exciting young talents and will only get better with more experience. I'm hoping next season Byrne will begin to establish himself as a starting wing. Plus Larmour, Ryan, Deegan and Porter to start pushing on.

There's a great mix of youth and experience in the squad and a truck load of talent there.

Fardy won't be replacing Toner.

But yeah, I agree with the general feeling around here. I'm not so disappointed today because we didn't get battered, we fought well and got caught napping in the first 15 min, otherwise we could've won that game, away, against an in-form Clermont in France with the sun on their backs. All without SOB, Heaslip, Healy, Kearney... Very impressive. The future is bright. Everyone will learn from this, probably the two biggest lessons they'll get from this is; the cliche of every point matters in the pool section is not a cliche, and what's required to win a marque cup knock out game.

Fardy and Lowe should bolster the ranks. It'll be interesting to see how they feature in the starting lineup.

Clegg

I don't think Fardy is replacing Toner but rather will bring things to the side that Toner lacks. They could be a good pairing. We're all looking to see what James Ryan can do. He has a full pro contract now I think. Will get games next season.

LEIN

To add to my previous post, the Cullen and Lancaster partnership will be much stronger next season also.

.ak

.ak wrote: »

I'm not so disappointed today because we didn't get battered

This was my concern. Being away from home makes things a lot tougher and I was worried after that first 20 that we were going to get badly pumped.

It was great to see that the players were able to react and the quality of coaching was there for us to react. Equally important was that we had serious leadership on the pitch to keep heads focused. When you are struggling in a European semi final, especially away from home, it's the leaders on the pitch that make the difference and that's how it was for Leinster.

Taking our chances and keeping the score board respectable whilst not a win at least means we can take some pride from the weekend. Tough loss but plenty to be positive about.

Buer

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Think Ruddock has to be nailed on as a starter going forward, consistently the best performing backrow in the team. I'd have him, SOB, Heaslip/Conán and whoever is going best between Leavy and VdF on the bench.

I'd make Ruddock captain going forward next season too tbh. Already a role he's filled numerous times and he's a natural leader on the pitch.

The problem is that we have one of these every week at this point. A week ago people were saying VDF has to start. A couple of weeks before that it was Leavy. After Montpellier, it was Conan.

I'm a massive fan of Ruddock. I think he's a seriously underrated player, very smart, very effective and gets through a serious amount of dirty work. It's criminal that someone of his talent has never established himself as a first choice player. If I was Les Kiss and could select one person to bring to Ulster from the Leinster traffic jam, I'd have Ruddock in a heartbeat

But I'm not sure that we can have a back row player as captain purely because they all push each other so much that we can't bet on who is going to be starting and our captain has to be a first choice player. Heaslip fits the bill but has done the job before and probably could do without it at this point.

With Lowe arriving next season, I'm not even sure if Nacewa will be in that bracket. I'd be tempted to see how Luke McGrath could cope with the captaincy. I think he's probably the best option and could offer some continuity. All the other guaranteed starters are first choice with Ireland so probably going to be missing for long stretches.

AbusesToilets

Is Isa playing next year? Genuinely not clear on his contract.

I get your point re the Leinster backrow, it's ridiculously stacked, you could make a legit argument for the Irish starting and bench options all being Leinster men. Personally I think Ruddock is a cut above, it's only injury that has stymied him. Wales would bite your arm off for him to be Welsh qualified.

LEIN

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Is Isa playing next year? Genuinely not clear on his contract.

I get your point re the Leinster backrow, it's ridiculously stacked, you could make a legit argument for the Irish starting and bench options all being Leinster men. Personally I think Ruddock is a cut above, it's only injury that has stymied him. Wales would bite your arm off for him to be Welsh qualified.

There was some news that he was playing on but nothing concrete from LR, afaik.

Former Former

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Is Isa playing next year? Genuinely not clear on his contract.

I get your point re the Leinster backrow, it's ridiculously stacked, you could make a legit argument for the Irish starting and bench options all being Leinster men. Personally I think Ruddock is a cut above, it's only injury that has stymied him. Wales would bite your arm off for him to be Welsh qualified.

There was an interview with Nacewa in yesterday's Times that confirmed he's playing on next year - apparently there was an option of an extension which has now been exercised.

CIARAN_BOYLE

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Think Ruddock has to be nailed on as a starter going forward, consistently the best performing backrow in the team. I'd have him, SOB, Heaslip/Conán and whoever is going best between Leavy and VdF on the bench.

I'd make Ruddock captain going forward next season too tbh. Already a role he's filled numerous times and he's a natural leader on the pitch.

Ruddock could nail down a spot in the team, he just needs (imo) to get back to where he used to be a few seasons ago in the lineout.

I haven't seen him perform in the lineout for a good while but he had a period where it was a major strength.

irishbucsfan

Anyways, time now to focus on the big rugby. Glasgow on Friday night

Everyone is focused in the Pro 12 now. I'd imagine we'll rest a few against Glasgow and then it'll be first team all the way from there.

Scarlets, Ospreys and Ulster are really all similar tests so I don't think we need to push too hard for results to ensure first seed. Although I do think I'd marginally prefer Ospreys or Ulster to Scarlets.

The big difference maker this season could come down to whether or not we have SOB/Heaslip available for the final. Munster will pose a similar threat to Clermont up front (and I suppose the return of Murray will be similarly important for them).

thomond2006

Will Sexton get another two weeks off?

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Will Sexton get another two weeks off?

I don't really mind if he does. Might as well look after him given the summer he has coming up. Only means more quality game time for Byrne/Carberry.

CMOTDibbler

thomond2006 wrote: »

Will Sexton get another two weeks off?

He didn't look too bothered physically after the match. His kicking stats are through the roof at this stage, I'm counting 19/20 since he started in the 6N and that's a weapon that needs to be kept honed.

He won't be playing against Glasgow, but after that I'd imagine he won't be held back too much.

Peregrine

thomond2006 wrote: »

Will Sexton get another two weeks off?

Probably won't play against Glasgow but should play against Ulster.

Buer

I'd like to see a strong enough side go to Ulster. Not our first choice but a mix and match including guys who are returning from injuries.

I can see us going with a team that is close to full strength though. The starting team from yesterday will all be rested for this Friday. There's a 2 week break between Ulster and the semi final so I can't see the first team kicking their heels for a month. I'd say the majority of them will be involved in Belfast.

Former Former

We'll see a totally different XV against Glasgow, no way Sexton can play this week. The 5-day turnaround is a bitch.

Dooley Cronin Bent
Kearney Molony
Ryan O'Brien (?) VDF
JGP Byrne
A Byrne Reid ROL B Daly
Kirchner

Glasgow have nothing to play for, no mathematical chance of a play off spot, so hopefully they don't turn up...