Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VIII: May the Fourth Star Be With You!

Peregrine

Kevski wrote: »

Leinster management have to stand up and take some responsibility for that result. What a ridiculous and unnecessary team selection.

Why was it unnecessary? How would you have done better in their situation? Please elaborate.

thomond2006

Johnny Short Drummer wrote: »

Going away to Thomond with 3 first team players starting and basically none on the bench against Munster in a good run of form... yeah it doesn't need Nostradamus to tell Leinster wouldn't get away with it.

It can happen. An Ulster Ravens side beat a full Munster team in Thomond a few years ago.

Leinster have a five day turnaround to Ulster in the RDS (ridiculous scheduling). This rules out starting the majority of your players in both games.

Kevski

irishbucsfan wrote: »

What makes you think it was unnecessary?

The fact that every other province fielded their starting internationals this weekend whereas we played Henshaw and Furlong and left McGrath, Toner, van der Flier, O'Brien, Heaslip and Ringrose at home? Seems totally unnecessary to surrender 5 points just like that.

former total

Ahhh the vultures are circling. Leinster lost, something to bitch about, high five!

We lost that game primarily (IMO) because we gave away too much possession via our rubbish kicking from the halfs. We had to play JGP and we had to play Ross Byrne. The coaches had no choice.

It didn't pan out, we gave them too much ball and they had wave after wave and they were always going to punch holes.

Other than that, it was OK.

Peregrine

Kevski wrote: »

The fact that every other province fielded their starting internationals this weekend whereas we played Henshaw and Furlong and left McGrath, Toner, van der Flier, O'Brien, Heaslip and Ringrose at home? Seems totally unnecessary to surrender 5 points just like that.

So, if we brought those lads to Thomond, what would we do at home in the RDS less than 5 days from now? Field a second string side?

Kevski

Peregrine wrote: »

Why was it unnecessary? How would you have done better in their situation? Please elaborate.

Maybe by not fielding a mostly second string team against a full strength top of the league team for a start?

irishbucsfan

Kevski wrote: »

Maybe by not fielding a mostly second string team against a full strength top of the league team for a start?

You're aware of the existence of the player welfare scheme, right?

thomond2006

Kevski wrote: »

Maybe by not fielding a mostly second string team against a full strength top of the league team for a start?

What do you do against Ulster in five days time then? You can't play a first string side.

Peregrine

Kevski wrote: »

Maybe by not fielding a mostly second string team against a full strength top of the league team for a start?

I think you lack a basic understanding of the situation, Kevski.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You're aware of the existence of the player welfare scheme, right?

Was there something stopping Leinster from playing more first choice this week and not playing them next week?

Kevski

Peregrine wrote: »

So what do you do at home in less than 5 days from now? Field a second string side?

Not an entirely second string side but I'd certainly have liked to see a stronger pack out today. Our scrum and maul went backwards on a number of occasions today. Ulster's pack are not as strong as Munsters.

irishbucsfan

Johnny Short Drummer wrote: »

Was there something stopping Leinster from playing more first choice this week and not playing them next week?

No, I can't imagine there would be. But maybe strategically they feel it makes more sense for them to break up now and then go for the big win next week and build momentum from that through into the big games in January.

Kevski

Peregrine wrote: »

I think you lack a basic understanding of the situation, Kevski.

What is it that I don't understand exactly?

irishbucsfan

Kevski wrote: »

Is that the same player welfare scheme that applies to all provinces? Because Leinster were the only one that fielded a weaker team this weekend.

So what do you think motivated the decision if not the player welfare scheme. Do you think the Leinster coaches sent down that team for the craic?

thomond2006

The schedule needs to be looked at to stop this happening. It's a terrible look for the league when 'marquee games' are essentially 1sts vs 2nds.

Kevski

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You're aware of the existence of the player welfare scheme, right?

I am. I'm also aware that applies to all provinces yet Leinster were the only one who fielded a weaker team this weekend. Maybe it'll balance out next weekend but I'd have much preferred to see more of a mix. Could have been the difference between 5-0 and 4-1.

thomond2006

Kevski, you need to look at the lineups over the two interpro weeks. Munster will change close to the entire starting XV for Connacht.

irishbucsfan

Kevski wrote: »

I am. I'm also aware that applies to all provinces yet Leinster were the only one who fielded a weaker team this weekend. Maybe it'll balance out next weekend but I'd have much preferred to see more of a mix. Could have been the difference between 5-0 and 4-1.

Or maybe it was the difference between 4-0 next week and 5-0 next week.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

Kevski, you need to look at the lineups over the two interpro weeks. Munster will change close to the entire starting XV for Connacht.

Connacht are in a slump at the moment. They've more injured players than fit. It makes a lot more sense to send a weakened team to Connacht than to Munster at the moment, surely that's obvious.

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

The schedule needs to be looked at to stop this happening. It's a terrible look for the league when 'marquee games' are essentially 1sts vs 2nds.

The schedule is created with this outcome in mind. These interpros at full pace are extremely intense and the IRFU don't like that idea at all...

irishbucsfan

Johnny Short Drummer wrote: »

Connacht are in a slump at the moment. They've more injured players than fit. It makes a lot more sense to send a weakened team to Connacht than to Munster at the moment, surely that's obvious.

Leinster aren't playing Connacht...

Kevski

irishbucsfan wrote: »

So what do you think motivated the decision if not the player welfare scheme. Do you think the Leinster coaches sent down that team for the craic?

I'm sure that it was the player welfare scheme that motivated the decision but my issue is that they chose to send a weaker team to Munster, who are top of the league and on much better form than Ulster, rather than mix it up as bit more and maybe only lose 3 points to Munster rather than 5.

thomond2006

Johnny Short Drummer wrote: »

Connacht are in a slump at the moment. They've more injured players than fit. It makes a lot more sense to send a weakened team to Connacht than to Munster at the moment, surely that's obvious.

That's simply fortunate for Munster.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The schedule is created with this outcome in mind. These interpros at full pace are extremely intense and the IRFU don't like that idea at all...

The schedule needs to change. I realise it's great for the players as they get to spend a maximum time at home with family though.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Leinster aren't playing Connacht...

Yes I'm aware of that thank you.

thomond2006 wrote: »

That's simply fortunate for Munster.

It is but any rational coach can look at how he can divide his internationals between the two games and decide the best chances he has of gaining maximum points from these fixtures is to go full strength v Leinster at home. And to be fair to Rassie his plan has gotten off to a decent start.

former total

thomond2006 wrote: »

The schedule needs to be looked at to stop this happening. It's a terrible look for the league when 'marquee games' are essentially 1sts vs 2nds.

Thomond, the IRFU are the ones setting this fixture. It is never going to change unless they want it to

thomond2006

former total wrote: »

Thomond, the IRFU are the ones setting this fixture. It is never going to change unless they want it to

#NuciforaOut

irishbucsfan

Kevski wrote: »

I'm sure that it was the player welfare scheme that motivated the decision but my issue is that they chose to send a weaker team to Munster, who are top of the league and on much better form than Ulster, rather than mix it up as bit more and maybe only lose 3 points to Munster rather than 5.

But Leinster's biggest problem today was our half backs, Leinster were never winning that game. Not sure how we'd get a LBP from that either.

For me if they take 5 points from Ulster they've gotten as much out of these 2 games as we could have expected. Also I'd rather one very disjointed performance and one good performance closer to Europe than two disjointed performances.

Kevski

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Or maybe it was the difference between 4-0 next week and 5-0 next week.

4-1 toMunster and 4-0 to us against Ulster would still be better than 5-0 to Munster and 5-0 to us against ulster as we would be denying Munster points.

Is Luke McGrath injured? Is he even under the player management scheme, considering he's one cap and doesn't make the Ireland first choice 23?

irishbucsfan

Kevski wrote: »

4-1 toMunster and 4-0 to us against Ulster would still be better than 5-0 to Munster and 5-0 to us against ulster as we would be denying Munster points.

I don't think they were intending on conceding a TBP when they made the selection for today...

They don't really get to just choose one or the other, you have the benefit of hindsight and limited liability.

letowski

In fairness to Leinster, they are still in the driving seat for the 2nd place home semi, after a win v Ulster next week in Dublin. I dont think they will be too dissppointed with today, they are keeping their card close to their chest as were likely to meet later in the year. Its def not like they finish outside the top 4, so nothing to worry about.

hogandrew

I'm sure this was discussed in the match thread but I don't understand how incidents like stander shoving his forearm/elbow into Daly was it? is not even a yellow but the Burleigh slap in the face on pape was a red.

On the game I taught JGP's kicking was poorer than I'd expect, Ross Byrne is a long way from the other 2 options but hopefully these games will bring him on. Hopefully ROL moves to the wing. He's too talented to play second fiddle at 13. Tracey's throwing seems a bit off the last couple of weeks but maybe toner back will sort that and Strauss isn't the worst back up.

5 points v ulster and all will be OK

CatFromHue

the pape one should never have been a red

the cj one was only just a peno, he didnt hit daly he just pushed him with his elbow

Clegg

Healy was a bit too eager. Tried to make big contributions but gave away penalties instead. It's ok though. His performances are much improved from last seasons. Starting to get back to a high level of play. McGrath is first choice by a good margin, but Healy is improving.

Dave_The_Sheep

Clegg wrote: »

Healy was a bit too eager. Tried to make big contributions but gave away penalties instead. It's ok though. His performances are much improved from last seasons. Starting to get back to a high level of play. McGrath is first choice by a good margin, but Healy is improving.

He had a serious injury, grand. My concern is that it's taking him a fair bit longer to get himself back to somewhere even close to where he was than normal. I get that sometimes that happens, sometimes you can't get back to where you were, but I wonder if we ever will see him back to his best. I'm skeptical at this point, because his best was rampagingly great, it's a massive ask.

Maybe I'm being harsh, but probably less harsh on him than he is himself.

CatFromHue wrote: »

the cj one was only just a peno, he didnt hit daly he just pushed him with his elbow

Indeed. I had issues with Owens today, but it was nothing even close to being a big factor in the loss, we did all that ourselves and Munster were by far the better side. We had to be immaculate with that team sheet to have a hope, but that wasn't the case, or even close. Munster weren't great, but with a 5-point win, I don't think they'll care.

I do think that CJ's "rubbing/pushing" of Daly was more than a peno, but maybe less than a card. I can only assume that ref's think in those terms as well - ie, you're on a "pale yellow" - if you even get caught offside again you're off - territory. It wasn't pleasant, but this isn't a pleasant game either. It's a row.

sydthebeat

My meandering thoughts of the game at 3:30am in Limerick.

Jgp was quite good all day. Crisp and ok in defense ( apart from a chickening out on zebos try)

It was a rude awakening for Ross Byrne. His kicking from hand was pretty terrible and his attacking play was limited. He felt the full force of a mobile back row on him. He can only get better from this exposure.

The incident of Ian nagle playing on for about 5 mins after being knocked out was seriously scary. He got up and couldn't even run straight. Owens should have halted the play immediately, though I'm sure it was up to the medics to name the call.
Thought when he was upright, nagle was actually very good.

Conon battled brave all day as did leavy, and dom Ryan was particularly good when he came on.

Isa is a class player still. Stupidly so to be honest. every thing he does is the correct decision.

Our lack of back 3 cover cost us the losing bonus. One switch (b Daly) moved around 4 players. And I hope to never ever see a game closing out with Noel Reid at 10. He has the moves but not the foresight.

All in all, a good experience for the younger lads. Frustrating for the older ones. Henshaw in particular cut a frustrated figure.

Oh, and James Tracey was woeful in the first half, slightly redeemed in the second.

pickarooney

I can't help feeling the sensible option was to put a solid team out against Munster and gamble on a less complete side beating a half-arsed Ulster side.

Kind of ironic that the player welfare scheme will do nothing to help Leinster's and Ireland's accumation of injuries at half back to say nothing of Connacht's catastrophic squad depletion.

.ak

How can anyone think JGP was good... he was awful. I'm sure he can do better but I'd gladly not see him start again for a while...

ironingbored

.ak wrote: »

How can anyone think JGP was good... he was awful. I'm sure he can do better but I'd gladly not see him start again for a while...

He was atrocious. There wasn't one contestable box kick all game and his chicken-**** attempt at a tackle on Zebo was reprehensible.

ktulu123

I feel if Leinster actually attempted to keep the ball in hand they might of created something. Any time they did move through the phases they made easy yards. Poor kicking from the half backs is what primarily lost us that game imo.

blackdog1

sydthebeat wrote:

Our lack of back 3 cover cost us the losing bonus. One switch (b Daly) moved around 4 players. And I hope to never ever see a game closing out with Noel Reid at 10. He has the moves but not the foresight.

I thought Reid was a massive step up from Byrne to be honest, his passing and line breaking ability was way above Byrne. Our kicking was atrocious, just gave the ball straight back without pressure whereas Murray was sublime.

stephen_n

sydthebeat wrote: »

My meandering thoughts of the game at 3:30am in Limerick.

Jgp was quite good all day. Crisp and ok in defense ( apart from a chickening out on zebos try)
.

It would appear you were watching a different match than the one I saw. That was probably JGP's worst outing in a Leinster jersey. His box kicking was awful and his decision making at times was kamikaze at best. He has a very fast pass but other than that he was pretty awful yesterday.

LEIN

stephen_n wrote: »

It would appear you were watching a different match than the one I saw. That was probably JGP's worst outing in a Leinster jersey. His box kicking was awful and his decision making at times was kamikaze at best. He has a very fast pass but other than that he was pretty awful yesterday.

Have to agree, he did nothing to help his cause to become first choice 9.
Luke will be feeling safe for now.

molloyjh

Apparently Sexton is back in full training and possible for the game on Saturday.

awec

molloyjh wrote: »

Apparently Sexton is back in full training and possible for the game on Saturday.

Sure isn't that just great.

Synode

awec wrote: »

Sure isn't that just great.

You might be able to get an autograph

Synode

Synode wrote: »

You might be able to get an autograph

"To awec, best wishes for the future, from David."

Rigor Mortis

stephen_n wrote: »

It would appear you were watching a different match than the one I saw. That was probably JGP's worst outing in a Leinster jersey. His box kicking was awful and his decision making at times was kamikaze at best. He has a very fast pass but other than that he was pretty awful yesterday.

Without wanting to exonerate JGP or Byrne, a kids ck a s only as good as the chase and it looked like Daly had been in nstructed not to chase any kicks

molloyjh

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

stephen_n wrote: »

It would appear you were watching a different match than the one I saw. That was probably JGP's worst outing in a Leinster jersey. His box kicking was awful and his decision making at times was kamikaze at best. He has a very fast pass but other than that he was pretty awful yesterday.

Without wanting to exonerate JGP or Byrne, a kids ck a s only as good as the chase and it looked like Daly had been in nstructed not to chase any kicks

If Daly had been instructed not to chase (I highly doubt that) then why were we kicking in the first place?

Rigor Mortis

molloyjh wrote: »

If Daly had been instructed not to chase (I highly doubt that) then why were we kicking in the first place?

I don't believe that, I was trying to make the point that Daly had a shocker and contributed to JGPs kicks looking so bad.