NASRPC EGM (See post #19)

LB6 · 30-01-2017 11:15pm

See - we do agree on things - see ya on the line lad!:D

Wadi14 · 30-01-2017 11:26pm

Was the whole AGM meeting recorded ? if so was all in attendance informed that they where being recorded ?

LB6 · 30-01-2017 11:29pm

Yes and yes

Wadi14 · 30-01-2017 11:35pm

lol I hope that's on the recording cus I cant remember being told lol

LB6 · 30-01-2017 11:40pm

now that's funny - yes it's all on the recording too.

Sparks · 30-01-2017 11:48pm

Wadi14 wrote: »

Was the whole AGM meeting recorded ? if so was all in attendance informed that they where being recorded ?

As a small side note of interest, this is not a legal requirement in this country and never has been. It's not legal to record a private conversation you are not a party to (ie. tapping phones) but if you're a party to a private conversation you can legally record it without notifying the other parties. An EGM of a members-only group would qualify as a private conversation or meeting for the purposes of the law governing this (as pointed out in the coverage of Sgt.McCabe's whistleblowing).

And frankly, recording an AGM or EGM like this, especially when it's contentious, is just a wise precaution for when human memory inevitably displays fallibility...

Wadi14 · 30-01-2017 11:57pm

Thanks for the info Sparks, maybe at any organisation AGM's or EGM's the top table should at the start of a meeting let members know they are or may be recorded.
As I'm sure we are all aware some of these things can get a bit heated lol

LB6 · 31-01-2017 12:03am

At least mine was out and proud and not hidden as people had done in previous mtgs :-)

Roll on the AGM, whenever that happens to be. Night all.

Wadi14 · 31-01-2017 12:06am

ahhh I thought u were on Facebook

Sparks · 31-01-2017 12:07am

Wadi14 wrote: »

Thanks for the info Sparks, maybe at any organisation AGM's or EGM's the top table should at the start of a meeting let members know they are or may be recorded.
As I'm sure we are all aware some of these things can get a bit heated lol

I know of a few Irish sports groups that do just that as a matter of course...

BattleCorp · 31-01-2017 9:51am

badaj0z wrote: »

I was there BC, along with a number of regular posters on here who have been unusually quiet today. How about hearing from any of the following, some of whom were there? I just want to check that I was at the same meeting that they attended.

BattleCorp, Brasros, homerhop, LB6, cliveJ, BIllBen, JB88, Xesse

Yes, I was at the same meeting as you. You wouldn't need to be a mind reader to figure out that I'm disappointed with the way things went but such is life.

I still don't believe that the NASRPC Committee acted according to the rules nor do I believe that this new Constitution is in the best interests of all shooters. Yes, I acknowledge that the old Constitution had huge holes in it and needed to be replaced but there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. If the Committee wanted to introduce this new Constitution in the fairest, most democratic way possible, they should have had it as a motion at the AGM where everybody gets a vote. Instead they chose to introduce it at an EGM where voting rights are contentious. I know that the Committee said that they got legal advice that said I wasn't entitled to vote but legal advice isn't always right. And yes, I'm not a solicitor and I could well be wrong about that but I still hold that shouldn't have been denied a vote. What was it, 12 or 13 people voted for this Constitution. That's hardly democratic, is it?

My take on the voting issue is that I was considered a member at the AGM and had voting rights so why suddenly am I not a member and don't have voting rights just because it's an EGM?

So, going forward it's one club, one vote. We saw a perfect example of that being flawed at the EGM. One particular club held a meeting a few weeks before the EGM, decided against the proposed Constitution and yet their rep abstained from the vote. That was clearly against the wishes of their club members.

By the way, and I could be wrong on this, but did a member of the NASRPC Committee represent a club at the EGM and vote on this proposal? Is that allowed? Is it a conflict of interest? Or even best practice?

Anyway, what's done is done. You now have the Constitution that you want. Anybody who has voted for this Constitution has taken power away from ordinary shooters and put it in the hands of one person from each club. Good luck with that.

Gleefulprinter · 31-01-2017 10:56am

BattleCorp wrote: »

So, going forward it's one club, one vote. We saw a perfect example of that being flawed at the EGM. One particular club held a meeting a few weeks before the EGM, decided against the proposed Constitution and yet their rep abstained from the vote. That was clearly against the wishes of their club members.

That's the second time this has been mentioned. First Billben and now you. Love to hear more.

BattleCorp · 31-01-2017 11:40am

Gleefulprinter wrote: »

That's the second time this has been mentioned. First Billben and now you. Love to hear more.

The part of my post that you quoted covers it adequately.

ntipptop · 31-01-2017 1:29pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

Yes, I was at the same meeting as you. You wouldn't need to be a mind reader to figure out that I'm disappointed with the way things went but such is life.

I still don't believe that the NASRPC Committee acted according to the rules nor do I believe that this new Constitution is in the best interests of all shooters. Yes, I acknowledge that the old Constitution had huge holes in it and needed to be replaced but there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. If the Committee wanted to introduce this new Constitution in the fairest, most democratic way possible, they should have had it as a motion at the AGM where everybody gets a vote. Instead they chose to introduce it at an EGM where voting rights are contentious. I know that the Committee said that they got legal advice that said I wasn't entitled to vote but legal advice isn't always right. And yes, I'm not a solicitor and I could well be wrong about that but I still hold that shouldn't have been denied a vote. What was it, 12 or 13 people voted for this Constitution. That's hardly democratic, is it?

My take on the voting issue is that I was considered a member at the AGM and had voting rights so why suddenly am I not a member and don't have voting rights just because it's an EGM?

So, going forward it's one club, one vote. We saw a perfect example of that being flawed at the EGM. One particular club held a meeting a few weeks before the EGM, decided against the proposed Constitution and yet their rep abstained from the vote. That was clearly against the wishes of their club members.

By the way, and I could be wrong on this, but did a member of the NASRPC Committee represent a club at the EGM and vote on this proposal? Is that allowed? Is it a conflict of interest? Or even best practice?

Anyway, what's done is done. You now have the Constitution that you want. Anybody who has voted for this Constitution has taken power away from ordinary shooters and put it in the hands of one person from each club. Good luck with that.

so basically, the way I see it, its not so much a problem of one vote per club, its a trust issue with your own clubs reps.???
if that is the case remove them??
or go to the agm/egm and direct them on the way to vote!!!
If new information does come to hand then your voice can be heard there and then, if your rep doesn't vote as the way your club wanted them to vote ,then it needs to be taken up within your own club,

1 or 2 Questions for ye all
when was the last time you were at your on clubs agm ???

Was there many there ???

For those that couldn't make [incl those, who may only shoot once or twice a year] how were these asked or told of proposed changes to their own or the nasrpc constitution or other rules ???

Does your club hold an agm/egm, if so when was the last one and if not , why not ??

regards

BattleCorp · 31-01-2017 1:49pm

ntipptop wrote: »

so basically, the way I see it, its not so much a problem of one vote per club, its a trust issue with your own clubs reps.???

Not quite. If you read my post, I'm more disappointed that ordinary shooters are losing their vote as I believe it isn't as democratic when one person votes per club.

I've no trust issues with my club rep, but the club that abstained, I'd say some of their members might have issues with their club rep for abstaining when they voted to reject the Constitution.

or go to the agm/egm and direct them on the way to vote!!!

The club rep would be under no obligation to listen to me. I'm not all the club members. Are you suggesting that all club members of every club should go to AGM's and EGM's and tell their rep how to vote? Over 1000+ people at meetings, that should be fun.

If new information does come to hand then your voice can be heard there and then, if your rep doesn't vote as the way your club wanted them to vote ,then it needs to be taken up within your own club,

See above, 1000+ people at a meeting and all that carry on.

1 or 2 Questions for ye all

I can't answer for all, I can only answer for myself but I'll try answer your questions.

when was the last time you were at your on clubs agm ???

An honest answer, I've never been to my club AGM.

Was there many there ???

I've no idea, I was never there.

For those that couldn't make [incl those, who may only shoot once or twice a year] how were these asked or told of proposed changes to their own or the nasrpc constitution or other rules ???

Regarding the changes to the Constitution, we received notice in the form of emails etc. The club committee discussed it. We discussed it amongst ourselves. The club asked its members what way they wanted to vote. We voted. The vote was to reject the motion. Our rep voted accordingly.

Does your club hold an agm/egm, if so when was the last one and if not , why not ??

I've no idea. I've never gone.

By the way, not all club members in a club agree on everything. I might disagree with the majority of my club members. Under this system, if I disagree with the majority of my club members, my view doesn't count, end of story. Under the old system, even if the majority of my club disagreed with me I could go to the AGM and my view counted. Fair enough, I could be outvoted, but at least my vote counted.

ntipptop · 31-01-2017 5:19pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

Not quite. If you read my post, I'm more disappointed that ordinary shooters are losing their vote as I believe it isn't as democratic when one person votes per club.

I've no trust issues with my club rep, but the club that abstained, I'd say some of their members might have issues with their club rep for abstaining when they voted to reject the Constitution.
Then they should have a serious talk with their rep, but it could have been a hung vote, were the reps of that club at the egm??
The club rep would be under no obligation to listen to me. I'm not all the club members. Are you suggesting that all club members of every club should go to AGM's and EGM's and tell their rep how to vote? Over 1000+ people at meetings, that should be fun.
Not suggesting that, but those that don't trust their reps could
See above, 1000+ people at a meeting and all that carry on.

I can't answer for all, I can only answer for myself but I'll try answer your questions.

An honest answer, I've never been to my club AGM.
so on one hand you say its not a fair and demographic, but on the other you say you have never been to an agm,interesting, that doesn't sound you are very demographic yourself
I've no idea, I was never there.
ok, so how do you know how other members feel, the ones that side with you will inform you on what they think, but sometimes there is other members with less of a voice but make a better point on the night but this is not convened to others after said meeting
Regarding the changes to the Constitution, we received notice in the form of emails etc. The club committee discussed it. We discussed it amongst ourselves. The club asked its members what way they wanted to vote. We voted. The vote was to reject the motion. Our rep voted accordingly.

if you didn't have an agm, do you not think that all might not be out in the open,alot goes missing between phone calls and chats between range details

I've no idea. I've never gone.
but why not, this where "most" of the facts are, not here on boards.ie or what paddy said to mick said to mary said to tom,
this is where you will also find out if the committee, that is elected, is the right one at that particular time, committees that are in "control" for too long can get very stagnate and might no be able to see what is good for a club, this why we are lucky to live in a demographic country, we can vote in and out tds. and goverments

By the way, not all club members in a club agree on everything. I might disagree with the majority of my club members. Under this system, if I disagree with the majority of my club members, my view doesn't count, end of story. Under the old system, even if the majority of my club disagreed with me I could go to the AGM and my view counted. Fair enough, I could be outvoted, but at least my vote counted.

Under the old system it seemed that the numbers of clubs were decreasing
I do agree with you that not always do we get our way but such is life i'm afraid
I do think that the organisation was set up to help clubs and as such they are a single voice for the clubs not so much as shooters, yes shooters make up the clubs but in turn its the clubs that make the organisation
is it fair that a club of 10 members cannot have the same rights as a club of 200 ??? even though they all shoot the same discipline, if this is the case then shooting would end up to be "owned" by one club and become a dictatorship with no shooter having a say.

BattleCorp · 31-01-2017 6:30pm

Then they should have a serious talk with their rep, but it could have been a hung vote, were the reps of that club at the egm??

It wasn't a hung vote. Not according to the members that I talked to. The club had a meeting, they decided against the new Constitution. Their wishes were not followed by the club rep. There were two people from the club at the EGM. I don't know if either of them were the designated representative as I only know the designated representative for my own club.

so on one hand you say its not a fair and demographic, but on the other you say you have never been to an agm,interesting, that doesn't sound you are very demographic yourself

Honestly, I never felt the need to go to my club's AGM. As far as I'm concerned my club is being run well and run fairly. I've never had a problem with my club.

My club didn't ignore the wishes of the people at the AGM and remove the FCP rep even though they were instructed not to do so at the AGM. My club didn't try to bring in a new constitution in circumstances designed to restrict who gets to vote on it, a new Constitution that removes votes from ordinary club members.

I'm far more concerned with the activities of the NASRPC Committee than I am with my own club Committee. I can go to my club and ask questions any time I like. The NASRPC won't respond to questions from shooters. Others asked them questions on Facebook and by email and they were told to go ask their questions through their club. The NASRPC wouldn't answer shooters directly. Not a very user friendly way of doing business.

ok, so how do you know how other members feel, the ones that side with you will inform you on what they think, but sometimes there is other members with less of a voice but make a better point on the night but this is not convened to others after said meeting

I don't fully understand what you are saying there. I don't always know how other members feel. Yes, there will always be people who disagree with my point of view and won't always tell me. If they don't speak up, their views won't be taken into account. It's the same in all walks of life. Either speak up or don't, it's their choice. That said, our club fosters a 'friendly family' type of atmosphere so I don't see why someone would be afraid or unwilling to air their views with anybody in the club. And by the way, if their views are different to 51% of the other members of their club, their views amount to 'jack sh1t'. They get no voice or vote under the new system.

if you didn't have an agm, do you not think that all might not be out in the open,alot goes missing between phone calls and chats between range details

but why not, this where "most" of the facts are, not here on boards.ie or what paddy said to mick said to mary said to tom,
this is where you will also find out if the committee, that is elected, is the right one at that particular time, committees that are in "control" for too long can get very stagnate and might no be able to see what is good for a club, this why we are lucky to live in a demographic country, we can vote in and out tds. and goverments

Clubs do have discussions outside of an AGM. An AGM is only once per year. I agree with you that Committees that are in 'control' for too long can get stagnant but I haven't seen signs of that with my own club. I haven't heard grumblings from anybody else at my club regarding our Committee either.

is it fair that a club of 10 members cannot have the same rights as a club of 200 ??? even though they all shoot the same discipline, if this is the case then shooting would end up to be "owned" by one club and become a dictatorship with no shooter having a say.

Do you really believe that larger clubs are out to form a dictatorship?

If that was the worry, why didn't the NASRPC table an amendment to the Constitution to only allow one member from a club to sit on the NASRPC Committee. That would remove fears that big clubs could 'own' shooting as you call it.

I do see your argument regarding rights and it wouldn't be right if a larger club took over everything. It's not right that 10 shooters get to outvote 200 shooters either.

jb88 · 01-02-2017 3:01pm

badaj0z wrote: »

I was there BC, along with a number of regular posters on here who have been unusually quiet today. How about hearing from any of the following, some of whom were there? I just want to check that I was at the same meeting that they attended.

BattleCorp, Brasros, homerhop, LB6, cliveJ, BIllBen, JB88, Xesse

No point in attending, Ive already won the war against the NASRPC. Don't want to waste my time with that farce.
Some of the clubs will take longer than others to realize the issues, so be it.

For any who thought it was a them and us situation in terms of club size, well thank the NASRPC and their information for that. (It wasn't)

I moved on months ago but thought id get some entertainment.

I thank my club for voting against these changes and not affiliating with the NASRPC going forward. Its for the best particularly when a 67 to 1 vote No is an example of commitment to a fair shooting organization.

The changes wrought by the NASRPC are in direct opposition to my own and many others in my club and its not likely to change.

Its unfortunate, but its the reality. If you treat people badly, particularly the core competitors of the organization nationally and internationally, then this is what happens.

I would ask people who support me to abstain from NASRPC competitions.
I think most will do so anyway for most of the coming year.

It will be interesting to see how things develop for the proposed World Championships and what cost that will now entail for the NASRPC ;-)

Gleefulprinter · 01-02-2017 3:20pm

jb88 wrote: »

No point in attending, Ive already won the war against the NASRPC. Don't want to waste my time with that farce.
Some of the clubs will take longer than others to realize the issues, so be it.

For any who thought it was a them and us situation in terms of club size, well thank the NASRPC and their information for that. (It wasn't)

I moved on months ago but thought id get some entertainment.

I thank my club for voting against these changes and not affiliating with the NASRPC going forward. Its for the best particularly when a 67 to 1 vote No is an example of commitment to a fair shooting organization.

The changes wrought by the NASRPC are in direct opposition to my own and many others in my club and its not likely to change.

Its unfortunate, but its the reality. If you treat people badly, particularly the core competitors of the organization nationally and internationally, then this is what happens.

I would ask people who support me to abstain from NASRPC competitions.
I think most will do so anyway for most of the coming year.

It will be interesting to see how things develop for the proposed World Championships and what cost that will now entail for the NASRPC ;-)

We will all miss you and the rest of your buddies at competitions. :rolleyes:

Nice to hear you won the war. Love to hear about that some day. :rolleyes:

"particularly the core competitors of the organization nationally and internationally". And there you have it. Some people looking for special treatment because they think they are owed it. Not long ago here you were telling people not to voice opinions as you were a shooter for longer and it was your opinion that mattered.

badaj0z · 01-02-2017 5:09pm

jb88 wrote: »

I thank my club for voting against these changes and not affiliating with the NASRPC going forward.

Really? Tell us more.

SVI40 · 02-02-2017 12:01am

jb88 wrote: »

I would ask people who support me to abstain from NASRPC competitions.

Thank you so much for encouraging me to shoot more NASRPC competitions. In 27 years of shooting, much of it competitive, I've never heard or seen such a bitter comment.

Gleefulprinter · 14-02-2017 11:16pm

The AGM of the NASRPC is on 25 March in Dundalk. Should be an interesting event. Hopefully lads will get all this sorted and to bed.

BattleCorp · 15-02-2017 9:49am

Gleefulprinter wrote: »

The AGM of the NASRPC is on 25 March in Dundalk. Should be an interesting event. Hopefully lads will get all this sorted and to bed.

I reckon that there won't be that much interest in it because ordinary shooters no longer have a vote. It's really only for the voting delegates as they are the only ones who can vote. For most shooters it's not worth going as they'll have no real input into things. I'd say there will be 1/4 or less of the attendance of the last AGM.

clivej · 15-02-2017 10:10am

Gleefulprinter wrote: »

The AGM of the NASRPC is on 25 March in Dundalk. Should be an interesting event. Hopefully lads will get all this sorted and to bed.

BattleCorp wrote: »

I reckon that there won't be that much interest in it because ordinary shooters no longer have a vote. It's really only for the voting delegates as they are the only ones who can vote. For most shooters it's not worth going as they'll have no real input into things. I'd say there will be 1/4 or less of the attendance of the last AGM.

Who may attend?

Any member of an Affiliated club of the NASRPC.

Who may vote?

Once a quorum, as defined in the NASRPC Constitution, has been established, any matter requiring a vote may be passed by a simple majority vote of accredited delegates.

“Each member in good standing, shall have the right to cast one(1) vote - through its accredited delegate - at any meeting of the association, where so asked to vote.

Proxy voting shall not be permitted.”

Please Note: “For an alteration to the constitution to carry it requires a two thirds (⅔) majority of the votes cast.“

Please Note: “Requests to overturn a decision made at a previous Meeting require a two-thirds (⅔) majority, of the votes cast, to carry.”

I don't have a say & I don't have a vote.

I'll leave it for the committee to decide the future for me.
Looking forward to this years competitions with all the new disciplines the NASRPC have announced.
Nearly time to get the Northern Ireland visitors pass applied for Bracken again.

The GRPAI have a shoot in Harbour House that day
Hoping to see all my friends on the firing line again soon.

ATB >>>> cj

Valhalla18 · 15-02-2017 10:26am

No point in going. Only one vote per club and I am not my club rep. So going to the GRPAI shoot in Harbour House that day. All are welcome.

clivej · 15-02-2017 10:44am

Valhalla18 wrote: »

No point in going. Only one vote per club and I am not my club rep. So going to the GRPAI shoot in Harbour House that day. All are welcome.

Well that's my Dance Card full then. See you there G (and about time you got to shoot. The pointy end goes to the front)

Valhalla18 · 15-02-2017 10:48am

clivej wrote: »

Well that's my Dance Card full then. See you there G (and about time you got to shoot. The pointy end goes to the front)

Yes. Don't know which has more rust on it. Me or the rifle ðŸ˜Š

ntipptop · 15-02-2017 11:04am

Valhalla18 wrote: »

No point in going. Only one vote per club and I am not my club rep. So going to the GRPAI shoot in Harbour House that day. All are welcome.

I have to that you sound like a big child!!!
i'll sit in the corner because I cant' have it my way!!

maybe its because of the likes of you with this attitude, that this "one club one vote " rule might benefit the "shooters" rather than "I the shooter"
some of the lads that are "up there" seem to forget where ye started, well ill remind ye AT THE BOTTOM
as far as im concerned the NASRPC was designed to help the "clubs" get shooters shooting,
so you should start with your club first if your rep isn't doing as you all agreed at your agm, then its move that rep on or move to another club yourself
have you made your feelings know at your clubs last agm ???
did you vote to change your rep at your clubs last agm??

just on a side note how many clubs not shooters actually support grpai??

and why not go to the agm and see first hand as to is being said not wait and hear it through the grapevine ???
why not add your points to the meeting maybe they will be valuable ???

I really enjoy shooting and I probably will never be "up there" but I will still enjoy my sport!!!

clivej · 15-02-2017 11:27am

ntipptop wrote: »

.............

just on a side note how many clubs not shooters actually support grpai??
.......................

I really enjoy shooting and I probably will never be "up there" but I will still enjoy my sport!!!

Hope too see you here ntipptop one of the days

The Gallery Rifle & Pistol Association of Ireland are delighted to announce our competition calendar for 2017 as follows:
Sat 25th March Harbour House Sports Club, Co. Kildare
Sat 6th May Hilltop Shooting Club, Co. Wicklow
Sat 17th June Harbour House Sports Club, Co. Kildare
Sat 29th July Hilltop Shooting Club, Co. Wicklow
Sat 9th Sept Harbour House Sports Club, Co. Kildare
Sun 24th Sept Eagles Rifle & Pistol Club, Co. Dublin
Sat 7th Oct Venue to be confirmed

Valhalla18 · 15-02-2017 11:44am

ntipptop wrote: »

I have to that you sound like a big child!!!
i'll sit in the corner because I cant' have it my way!!

maybe its because of the likes of you with this attitude, that this "one club one vote " rule might benefit the "shooters" rather than "I the shooter"
some of the lads that are "up there" seem to forget where ye started, well ill remind ye AT THE BOTTOM
as far as im concerned the NASRPC was designed to help the "clubs" get shooters shooting,
so you should start with your club first if your rep isn't doing as you all agreed at your agm, then its move that rep on or move to another club yourself
have you made your feelings know at your clubs last agm ???
did you vote to change your rep at your clubs last agm??

just on a side note how many clubs not shooters actually support grpai??

and why not go to the agm and see first hand as to is being said not wait and hear it through the grapevine ???
why not add your points to the meeting maybe they will be valuable ???

I really enjoy shooting and I probably will never be "up there" but I will still enjoy my sport!!!

What the f#@k are you on about tipptop ??. The nasrpc can have there agm and I will go do what you say at the bottom of your post, Go enjoy my sport. And for your info the nasrpc have a shoot this month and I will be there also . I will also attend my clubs agm and have my say. But I won't be going to the nasrpc agm as I am not my clubs rep , as I said. So stop getting your knickers in a twist over some perceived slight to the nasrpc. Your like a dog with a bone, you just don't know when to let go. So sit back , relax , not everything is a conspiracy to bad mouth the nasrpc.

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NASRPC EGM (See post #19)

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