"It's what you do next that counts"

TheRoadRunner

Woddle wrote: »

So far my long runs have been
3x20, 2x16, 2x15 and 7x10 plus runs, this is far more than I did for last years marathons but its funny when I'm running my lsrs, I can't picture myself going much faster.
Miles for Feb 196

I said it before but you are stringing great weeks together, very consistent, sensible running. You training deserves a big PB in Paris and as long as you run according to your prerace plan you'll get it. Nice group of long runs. I'm hoping to clock up a good few myself in the coming weeks.

Woddle

After talking with you the other day, I went straight back to bed for an hour and a half after todays effort

TheRoadRunner

Woddle wrote: »

After talking with you the other day, I went straight back to bed for an hour and a half after todays effort

It's your only man. Did you fee any benefit from it ? You won't be popular with the OH but I find it speeds up recovery !

Racing Flat

Woddle, I suppose it's not allowed answer in someone else's well, so I'll put it here...

I think it's fine to compare yourself with others. Anyone who overtakes you, ask yourself why? It might be the training or something, or it could be that they are more talented, have a genetic advantage. If it's the former you may well be able to improve your own training, if it's the latter just respect the better athlete.

In relation to your direct and very appropriate comparison between you and Sosa who started around the same time, before looking at genetics or training, one thing that jumps out to me is that Sosa didn't do 3 marathons in 3 months last summer (he must not have known SunGod that well back then, or been under his spell as yet:D). No one could improve with 3 marathons in 3 months*, but you had your reasons for doing those. This year you are more focused on improvements and so your training is more consistent and so you are seeing the reults. Patience is all that is needed now.

*On that I think as well that those who do 2 marathons a year don't improve as quickly as they should.

Woddle

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

It's your only man. Did you fee any benefit from it ? You won't be popular with the OH but I find it speeds up recovery !

It did help and the wife was good enough to bring the kids out of the house I didn't go asleep though but it def benefited me.

Woddle

Racing Flat wrote: »

(he must not have known SunGod that well back then, or been under his spell as yet:D).
*On that I think as well that those who do 2 marathons a year don't improve as quickly as they should.

Very funny.

Regarding 2 marathons a year and improving, next year I'll be ruling out a Spring marathon as theres been times were its not enjoyable and more like a chore. I can see myself doing Berlin every year though

Woddle

Similar to what Amadeus said on his log today, the following will contain alot of waffle and self loathing.
After talking with a few people over recent days and reading between the lines I have decided to downgrade my predicted marathon time. The reasons for this are pure tirdness on my behalf and lack of motivation coupled with feeling ill today. I am not looking for any back slapping as I know I am now taking the sensible approach and try as I want to be up there with Sosa, Krusty and the rest of the Wicklow lads, I'm just not there yet. The tirdness thing is just plain not funny (if there was a similar 1000 mile challenge for sex, I would be last).
So the plan is to enjoy Paris after all I'm doing it to celebrate my 30th birthday. Will probably do little for the remainder of the week and then give Ballycotton a lash but more importantly I want to enjoy Ballycotton. Then the following 2 weeks lash into the training and then 2 week taper. Looking forward to concentrating on shorter stuff and then giving Berlin my all.

And I broke my treadmill yesterday. I finally got the motivation and jumped on the treadmill to do 5x1000 but only got 1 and a half of these done after a 2 mile warm up before it broke. I spent ages taking it apart and I still havn't figured out the problem.

Key word from now till Paris ENJOY

shels4ever

Enjoy should always be the key, I think its good advise by RF as usual .

TheRoadRunner

Don't be too hard on yourself. Good plan for this week, run and enjoy Ballycotton. Take stock after that, you might surprise yourself.

I'm finding myself included a lot of people on boards are feeling tired and pissed off this week. Most (or a good bit) of the training has been done so don't do anything silly. Maybe you should downgrade your time but give it another couple of weeks before you commit.

But you are right, you need to enjoy this one or Berlin may not happen

Racing Flat

How's your diet? Maybe you're not getting enough energy from food and so are tired?

Also what's your weekly mileage over the last few months?

If it's something like 30,30,30,30,50,50,50,this might explain your fatigue. the big step ups need to be made slowly....

Good diet and an easy week every so often e.g. 3 weeks hard, 1 week easy are key for me to avoid fatigue.

At the same time fatigue is part and parcel - I think it was Brendan Foster who said 'An athlete wakes up tired in the morning and goes to bed tired at night.' But I suppose if you are so tired that you are lacking motivation you are too tired.

Determining why will hep tackle it. Chin up. Running's a bit like that though. Run a PB Sunday and you'll be back on track!

Racing Flat

And WTF were you doing 5 x 1k 5 days before a 10mile for?:mad::D

Krusty_Clown

I know you don't want any backslapping, but it does sound like you have made a very sensible but difficult decision. There's no point in going gung-ho for the sub 3, when you can do it in logical manageable chunks. You have recorded (3 or 4?) marathon PBs in the last 6 months, which is a huge achievement, so if you keep going at the same incremental pace, you'll continue to see those gains and enjoy the experience along the way.

I'm sure the experienced runners here will tell us that it is as important to have a solid racing calendar and target time strategy, as it is is to have a solid training strategy.

Enjoy Ballycotton.

Woddle

Racing Flat wrote: »

How's your diet? Maybe you're not getting enough energy from food and so are tired?

Also what's your weekly mileage over the last few months?

If it's something like 30,30,30,30,50,50,50,this might explain your fatigue. the big step ups need to be made slowly....

!

Diet sucks, I can't shake the sweet tooth but I have cut takeawys way down. None this week

Milage has been 38,50,46,30,44,55,54,23,55 and 3.2 for this week

Makes alot of sense. Any suggestions for the last 4 weeks ?

Woddle

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I know you don't want any backslapping, but it does sound like you have made a very sensible but difficult decision. There's no point in going gung-ho for the sub 3, when you can do it in logical manageable chunks. You have recorded (3 or 4?) marathon PBs in the last 6 months, which is a huge achievement, so if you keep going at the same incremental pace, you'll continue to see those gains and enjoy the experience along the way.

I'm sure the experienced runners here will tell us that it is as important to have a solid racing calendar and target time strategy, as it is is to have a solid training strategy.

Enjoy Ballycotton.

Cheers Krusty, my biggest flaw I think is my lack of patience, I want everything now and I have to start believing that running is here to stay now as part of my life. I have never really stuck at anything for too long, I'm the fad man , now that the decision is made though I feel much better, stupid putting pressure on myself like that

kennyb3

Woddle wrote: »

Diet sucks, I can't shake the sweet tooth but I have cut takeawys way down. None this week

Milage has been 38,50,46,30,44,55,54,23,55 and 3.2 for this week

Makes alot of sense. Any suggestions for the last 4 weeks ?

woddle i suffer from a serious bout of the sweet tooth disease. i feel your pain, dont beat yourself up for it. you do well enough miles to counter act it!!

Sosa

Woddle wrote: »

Similar to what Amadeus said on his log today, the following will contain alot of waffle and self loathing.
After talking with a few people over recent days and reading between the lines I have decided to downgrade my predicted marathon time. The reasons for this are pure tirdness on my behalf and lack of motivation coupled with feeling ill today. I am not looking for any back slapping as I know I am now taking the sensible approach and try as I want to be up there with Sosa, Krusty and the rest of the Wicklow lads, I'm just not there yet. The tirdness thing is just plain not funny (if there was a similar 1000 mile challenge for sex, I would be last).
So the plan is to enjoy Paris after all I'm doing it to celebrate my 30th birthday. Will probably do little for the remainder of the week and then give Ballycotton a lash but more importantly I want to enjoy Ballycotton. Then the following 2 weeks lash into the training and then 2 week taper. Looking forward to concentrating on shorter stuff and then giving Berlin my all.

And I broke my treadmill yesterday. I finally got the motivation and jumped on the treadmill to do 5x1000 but only got 1 and a half of these done after a 2 mile warm up before it broke. I spent ages taking it apart and I still havn't figured out the problem.

Key word from now till Paris ENJOY

Having read some of the replies from this woddle,you have done the right thing,no point in killing yourself trying to achieve something.
I have not even done a marathon yet,but when i do i will try as hard as i can ( like you are doing ),and see how it goes from there.
The main reason i will do a marathon is to get the experience of it,feel the buzz from the other runners and spectators,not to be going around in severe pain not being able to take all that in.

I would like to think that my target will be 3:15...but if i feel close to the time that thats not possible,so be it !

Good luck with the next few weeks and you might even surprise yourself on the day !

shels4ever

Woddle wrote: »

Diet sucks, I can't shake the sweet tooth but I have cut takeawys way down. None this week

Milage has been 38,50,46,30,44,55,54,23,55 and 3.2 for this week

Makes alot of sense. Any suggestions for the last 4 weeks ?

Remember you are actually in good shape running a pb over 2 miles last week. You've prob need a few days to relax . You taking any multi vits?

TheRoadRunner

Regarding vitamins diet etc. I'm hitting the pharmaton this week. Generally do this a month before a marathon to ensure I have adequate levels of iron and vitamins etc. I have decided to take them early this year as I feel lethargic (actually the OH is sticking me on them). I have taken these in the past and they seem to work for me. Coming off them can be a bastard though, similar to cold turkey. I think I have a decent diet and do take centrum normally but will replace these with the pharmaton.

Regarding your sweet tooth, join the gang. I overcome my major craving with pineapples. I could eat them all day. I have also replaced chocolate with jelly beans and hard boiled sweets. I know they are full of refined sugars but they are low on fats so I fool myself into thinking they are better than chocolate.

A dietician or sports scientist reading this probably think I'm a nut but placebo effect or not all of the above work for me !

Woddle

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

pharmaton (actually the OH is sticking me on them). !

My wife picked these up for me today on her lunch break, I think them combined with the no pressure approach will sort me out.
And thanks for all the helpful comments.

TheRoadRunner

If they don't help you I have access to EPO

Woddle

Will there be testers in Carlingford tomorrow

Racing Flat

Woddle wrote: »

Diet sucks, I can't shake the sweet tooth but I have cut takeawys way down. None this week

Milage has been 38,50,46,30,44,55,54,23,55 and 3.2 for this week

Makes alot of sense. Any suggestions for the last 4 weeks ?

Mileage seems okay actually as you have one or two easier weeks in between some of your harder weeks. But it's gone a bit Pete Tong this week for whatever reason. Maybe it's the diet?

I wouldn't be too worried about the sweet tooth - what I'd be more concerned with is are you getting good carbs (with some protein) in consistently? and are you replenishing energy stores asap after runs? eating within first half hour quite improtant - if you can't eat in that time and energy drink will help, should be 6-8g carbohydrate (glucose) per 100ml drink, so lucozade sport, powerade, gatorade all fine.

Diet wise, important (for me anyway or I go hypoglycaemic) to have complex carbs in mornings and at lunchtime if doing hard session that evening and the night before runs (so every evening), as follows...

Breakfast - Orange juice, porridge with nuts. Weetabix okay if you don't like porridge. +/- fruit, brown toast.

Mid-morning - apple and banana

Lunch - soup and brown bread sandwich + fruit

Pre-training (if necessary - energy drink and banana, not usually needed unless been too busy in work to eat well)

Post training (energy drink + banana and apple if tough session)

Dinner - complex carbs (brown rice or pasta or sweet potatoes or normal potatoes) with fish or beef and vegetables).

Woddle

Well very little running for the week.

Tuesday was indoor football
Wednesday was 3.22 miles before the treadmill broke
Today just a 2 mile loop of Marlay to give the legs a bit of a stretch before tomorrow.

Running Bing

Woddle wrote: »

Well very little running for the week.

Tuesday was indoor football
Wednesday was 3.22 miles before the treadmill broke
Today just a 2 mile loop of Marlay to give the legs a bit of a stretch before tomorrow.

Whats the goal for Paris Woddle?


You've come a long way since your first post last April;)

Woddle

Babybing wrote: »

Whats the goal for Paris Woddle?

I think Robinph did 3:27 in Dublin so I'll be aiming for better than that , if I'm feeling good maybe 3:20 but I'm going to make my final decision in 2 weeks time after some good sessions.

Woddle

525 1030 BRADSHAW, David M Dublin 01:11:10 01:11:43

No sub 70 but to be honest I'm happy especially after 2 bad weeks out of the last 3.
I set off at sub 70 pace but after mile 5 I started to fade, I felt tired and stiff but I enjoyed myself and I know with 2 good weeks of training Ill be back on fire. Looking forward to next weeks 5k race. I reckon I could have gone sub 71 but there was a timing mat before the finish line and for some reason I thought that was the finish so stopped but then the crowd roared at me and I looked up and saw my mistake, I was still way short of the finishing banner
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/2427723
10 miles, pace 7:07
Average HR 90% and a new high of 200

Running Bing

Woddle wrote: »

I reckon I could have gone sub 71 but there was a timing mat before the finish line and for some reason I thought that was the finish so stopped but then the crowd roared at me and I looked up and saw my mistake, I was still way short of the finishing banner

I should'nt laugh but thats hilarious:D


Id say it was a right bitch getting going again:P

Racing Flat

Woddle wrote: »

there was a timing mat before the finish line and for some reason I thought that was the finish

That was the start mat I'd say, they just hadn't removed it yet. Bit of a pain - paranoid I was going to trip on this :eek:.

stmochtas

Great time Woddle. Any plans for the BHAA wednesday night? Not going to make the 5k on Sunday as I will be in the west.

Woddle

I think I'll give Wednesday a miss and put all my effort into Sundays race.

MCOS

Good running Woddle, thats twice now you are knocking on the sub 70 door. A bit of speed focus will get you there. 5K on Sunday, I reckon you will cruise the sub 20 now. Interested to see what you can do. I've never done a 5k but I'll use your time on Sunday as my benchmark

kennyb3

sorry to post this on your training log woddle, hope you dont mind. where is this 5km race? is it flat and reasonably fast? looking to do my first sub 20 attempt.

Woddle

No problems at all, I think its very quick and will be attempting sub 20 also. It starts and finishes at the Mansion house, I did it last year and would recommend it

http://www.msbac.com/home/index.html

kennyb3

Woddle wrote: »

No problems at all, I think its very quick and will be attempting sub 20 also. It starts and finishes at the Mansion house, I did it last year and would recommend it

http://www.msbac.com/home/index.html

Thanks, have you gone sub 20 before woddle? not sure if its realistic for me yet. my best is 20:49 in training, but imo and its only an opinion its a tough 5km with a couple of long if not steep uphills. kind of hoping a flat course and race adrenlin will get me there. would take 19:59 any day!!

Woddle

I def remember it being quick and mostly flat, I recall the finishing stretch up to the mansion house as being uphill alright, I went sub 20 years ago but I'm using 20:07 as my pb which I set on new years day
Its a good course that would def help a sub 20 attempt

Woddle

5.14 miles in 43:02, pace 8:22
Average HR 72%
I seemed to have picked up a little niggle on the outside of my right foot after Ballycotton yesterday, ran through it today and it caused a little bit of discomfort. Hope it sorts itself out, legs were very tired during this run but glad I got out.

Sosa

Woddle wrote: »

525 1030 BRADSHAW, David M Dublin 01:11:10 01:11:43

No sub 70 but to be honest I'm happy especially after 2 bad weeks out of the last 3.
I set off at sub 70 pace but after mile 5 I started to fade, I felt tired and stiff but I enjoyed myself and I know with 2 good weeks of training Ill be back on fire. Looking forward to next weeks 5k race. I reckon I could have gone sub 71 but there was a timing mat before the finish line and for some reason I thought that was the finish so stopped but then the crowd roared at me and I looked up and saw my mistake, I was still way short of the finishing banner
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/2427723
10 miles, pace 7:07
Average HR 90% and a new high of 200

Good running Woddle ....you enjoyed yourself yesterday which is so important,good stuff

rainbow kirby

Hey Woddle, just looking at that 5k course, and am currently in a tossup as to whether to go to Gojira on Saturday night or whether to run that race - reckon it's one where I'd have a decent shot of running sub-30?

shels4ever

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Hey Woddle, just looking at that 5k course, and am currently in a tossup as to whether to go to Gojira on Saturday night or whether to run that race - reckon it's one where I'd have a decent shot of running sub-30?

This looks like a fast course to me .

Woddle

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Hey Woddle, just looking at that 5k course, and am currently in a tossup as to whether to go to Gojira on Saturday night or whether to run that race - reckon it's one where I'd have a decent shot of running sub-30?

I agree with Shels I found it quick last year and if your looking for a pb you might just find it here and if I remember correctly you get quite a good goody bag too

Running Bing

shels4ever wrote: »

This looks like a fast course to me .

Just from knowing the area it seems pretty flat for the most part.

The only potential red flag is the bit of a drag up Leeson street towards the end (I think thats uphill?).

I think Adelaide road is a gentle downhill though so a bit of time could be made there.

xebec

I ran this race last year too... It's a very flat course, the only slight uphill is the short stretch on Leeson St, but that's only a few hundred metres and from there on it's plain sailing back to the finish on Dawson St.

christeb

You're looking for a sub 20min time on Sun I presume??

I just need to know so I can start mentally preparing to beat you

Woddle

christeb wrote: »

You're looking for a sub 20min time on Sun I presume??

I just need to know so I can start mentally preparing to beat you

I sure am and you may want to review your tactics and not try overtake me with 800 meters to go

christeb

I'll be running out of my skin to overtake you at all - but good to have the target all the same!

Woddle

I was suppose to go for 15 this morning but couldn't get motivated and then I got a text from Mr Kilgannon 'fancy a run', so with that I did 10 just under 8 min pace which was way to slow for him ,I could see it in every step, he's a 70 min half marathon runner and I think next time we will have to try and plan ahead so I don't feel I'm slowing him down, maybe a tempo run or sth.
I know I've been going on about lack of motivation and feeling fatigued but I'm convinced I'm a little under the weather and this was confirmed with my voice starting to go. I'm taking alot of vitc, echinacea and pharmaton so hopefully I'll get sorted.
10 miles in 79:32
Average HR 82% found it hard to talk and run today

Slogger Jogger

Fight those feelings. Positive mental attitudes only allowed with 25 days to go. Wait til donothoponpop gets a whiff of this .

Woddle

Slogger Jogger wrote: »

Fight those feelings. Positive mental attitudes only allowed with 25 days to go. Wait til donothoponpop gets a whiff of this .

Don't tell I'm fighting them I swear
Cheers SJ
I got some good advice and I'm going to right a little list tonight of key sessions to focus on over the next 10/11 days and stick to it.

Krusty_Clown

Woddle wrote: »

I did 10 just under 8 min pace which was way to slow for him ,I could see it in every step, he's a 70 min half marathon runner

At that pace, there are very few of us who wouldn't be slowing him down!
How long have you got until Paris? Are you going to take a break for a while afterwards?

Woddle

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

At that pace, there are very few of us who wouldn't be slowing him down!
How long have you got until Paris? Are you going to take a break for a while afterwards?

Why are you trying to figure out how much of a realistic threat I am to you in the 1000 mile challenge not much
3.5 weeks to Paris and when Paris is done 7/8 weeks of easy running, nothing over 5 miles and then May 18th Berlin training starts :eek:
By the sounds of your log you aint going to be getting much of a rest, how will you factor this into your training or will you bother ?