"It's what you do next that counts"

Stupid_Private

Don't worry at all about today's run. Yesterday you ran faster than ever before and would have put your body under a lot of stress. The effort of yesterday would be about the same as that of a long run. It's very hard to do a race one day and then a 20 mile recovery run the next! Not something I'd fancy trying anyway.

shels4ever

Woddle wrote: »

I actually thought I had a good race on new years day and was gutted afterwards to see that I lost out by 8 seconds.
I think the main reason for yesterday was effort, my average HR for the new years day race was 88% compared with 92% for yesterdays, also I had no main plan for yesterdays race until about 1/2 a mile in when I just thought fcuk it lets try keep this effort up and see what happens, whereas new years day I knew my splits had to be 6:24 for sub 20 and I tried to stick to that.
Racing flat mentioned in a thread a while back that for shorter races a study (I think or perhaps I read it somewhere) showed that going out quick and trying to hold on outperformed the even pacers or sth like that.
Also when I was having a good run of training, 2 sessions stood out for me, one was a Tuesday 10 miler@ what I thought was my 1/2 marathon pace and the second session was 5x1K@5k race pace which I found tough but def believe it stood to me.
I must admit after yesterdays result I'm really looking forward to concentrating on the shorter stuff.

I'll really have to up my training come May/june to close the gap you've opened up on me..
27 mine to Sub 20 in a year is great going..

MCOS

Well done Woddle on your 5k pb. Sounds like you just 'went for it'! Kudos on the improvements over the last year. I bet you are chomping at the sub 40 10k bit now

Woddle

MCOS wrote: »

I bet you are chomping at the sub 40 10k bit now

Sure am, I put my time into Mcmillan as you do and he gives me 40:20,
I'll hopefully find one in or around July, and hopefully knock out no. 2 of the big 8

Cheers SP, to be honest I'm not too concerned, I'll probably do my last long run on Sunday and will hopefully make it an 18 miler. You look like your in great shape now judging by your run yesterday.

Stupid_Private

Woddle wrote: »

You look like your in great shape now judging by your run yesterday.

I think a few things were in my favour yesterday - energy gels, about 11 hours sleep the night before, and a light weeks training load. Still, I was quite surprised - now to up the long runs to something more marathonesque.

Woddle

Going out for a few pints later (the wife is making me) so I thought I better run the calories off first, so,
6.26 miles in 52:36, pace 8:24
Average HR 72%

RacoonQueen

Woddle wrote: »

Going out for a few pints later (the wife is making me)

Oh, aye, blame her.

Woddle

mp1972 wrote: »

Oh, aye, blame her.

I came home at 8 to let the babysitter go and she decided to stay and with my mates too may I add. I only had the 3 pints in 4 hours but to be honest I'm glad as I want to get out in the morning
I think I'm slurring my typing after 3 pints

Woddle

I was supose to run early this morning but put it off till lunch time and then I had some bad news and kept putting it off but thanks to the support here I got up and out the door and stopped using the bad news as an excuse.

It actually turned out to be a good quality session. Theroadrunner has mentioned pyramids quite alot and I was watching alot of flotrack videos this morning and they also had a good pyramid session. So I decided on a 1,2,3,4,5,4,3,2,1 and the rest in between would be half of whatever interval I just did, so if it was 1 min fast, well then it was 30 secs slow.
1 min=6:30 pace
2 min=6:13 pace
3 min=6:26 pace
4 min=6:28 pace approx(I pressed stop instead of lap)
5 min=6:29 pace
4 min=6:28 pace
3 min=6:40 pace
2 min=6:30 pace
1 min=6:02 pace

I didn't really know what pace I should be doing these at, so I just went with what I felt would make me finish each interval. Feels good to have done a session of this quality.
7.96 miles in 59:40, pace 7:29
Average HR 83%
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/2622758
Lap 8 is a little messed, pressed stop by mistake, realised 30 secs later, so it was 4 mins fast and 1:30 +30 secs recovery

TheRoadRunner

nice session. I'll be hitting the pyramid of pain again next week myself. How are the legs today. Hope you have an easy day planned after yesterdays effort.

OBWON

Woddle wrote: »

I was supose to run early this morning but put it off till lunch time and then I had some bad news and kept putting it off but thanks to the support here I got up and out the door and stopped using the bad news as an excuse.

It actually turned out to be a good quality session. Theroadrunner has mentioned pyramids quite alot and I was watching alot of flotrack videos this morning and they also had a good pyramid session. So I decided on a 1,2,3,4,5,4,3,2,1 and the rest in between would be half of whatever interval I just did, so if it was 1 min fast, well then it was 30 secs slow.
1 min=6:30 pace
2 min=6:13 pace
3 min=6:26 pace
4 min=6:28 pace approx(I pressed stop instead of lap)
5 min=6:29 pace
4 min=6:28 pace
3 min=6:40 pace
2 min=6:30 pace
1 min=6:02 pace

I didn't really know what pace I should be doing these at, so I just went with what I felt would make me finish each interval. Feels good to have done a session of this quality.
7.96 miles in 59:40, pace 7:29
Average HR 83%
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/2622758
Lap 8 is a little messed, pressed stop by mistake, realised 30 secs later, so it was 4 mins fast and 1:30 +30 secs recovery

Sorry about this question but I am a complete novice. What is a pyramid session. Does the 1 min mean staying at the pace for 1 min or what does it mean.

Woddle

OBWON wrote: »

Sorry about this question but I am a complete novice. What is a pyramid session. Does the 1 min mean staying at the pace for 1 min or what does it mean.

Hi OBWON it's just a form of speed training, and yep you try hold that effort for a minute, then go as slow as you like for the 30 seconds recovery, then you try hold the next effort for 2 minutes and building up to 5 minutes. When doing these first you can just do1,2,3,2,1 and build yourself up and take as long as needed to recover. I think theroadrunner goes up to 6 mins :eek:

You can play around quite a bit with the time/distance and recovery, one I did last year was 400 meters,800m,1200m,1600m,1200m,800m,400m and I remember the rests were alot longer than the other day and I came to a complete hold during the rest.

TheRoadRunner

Woddle wrote: »

I think theroadrunner goes up to 6 mins :eek:

Not yet but it's on the cards:D

OBWON

Woddle wrote: »

Hi OBWON it's just a form of speed training, and yep you try hold that effort for a minute, then go as slow as you like for the 30 seconds recovery, then you try hold the next effort for 2 minutes and building up to 5 minutes. When doing these first you can just do1,2,3,2,1 and build yourself up and take as long as needed to recover. I think theroadrunner goes up to 6 mins :eek:

You can play around quite a bit with the time/distance and recovery, one I did last year was 400 meters,800m,1200m,1600m,1200m,800m,400m and I remember the rests were alot longer than the other day and I came to a complete hold during the rest.

Thanks Woddle. I have seen it mentioned a couple of times but wasn't sure what it was. I will assume a killer of a session.:eek:

Woddle

OBWON wrote: »

Thanks Woddle. I have seen it mentioned a couple of times but wasn't sure what it was. I will assume a killer of a session.:eek:

I was stiff after my last effort but it'll be as easy or as tough as you make it.

Woddle

This morning 7 miles in 54 mins, pace 7:43
Average HR 80%

This afternoon 4.8 miles in 36:58, pace 7:42
Average HR 79%
I ran the latter with Donothoponpop and sorry for the initial brash pace. Nice run or maybe it was more of a nice outlet/chat and although I havn't been drinking much, I've decided to get a bottle of wine with the wife and chill as I think I've been struck with the taper madness or the fit everything in before its too late syndrome.

donothoponpop

Glad you're enjoying some wine Woddle. I'm a man of few talents: thankfully one of them is that I drive people to drink.

Woddle

My last lsr I got a nice confidence boost after this and I really enjoyed the run. The only thing that annoyed me was everytime the news came on Q102, the presenter would say what a morning across Dublin and its to remain sunny and bright for the rest of the day, well no bloody sun came out for me and I really wanted some sun as I was quite cold in my tshirt/singlet.

20 miles in 2:47:26, pace 8:22 and I finished strong and its also not the esaiest course as theres quite alot of uphill at the start.
Average HR 74%, I was surprised it was so low and thats still 8% lower than my Dublin marathon average.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/2687375

Now for the 2 week taper to begin and no doubt RF and Sosa and others will begin to overtake me in the 1000 mile challenge

Slogger Jogger

Great running Woddle. Fair play to you for doing 20 miles 2 weeks out. Rest now

donothoponpop

Woddle wrote: »

20 miles in 2:47:26, pace 8:22 and I finished strong and its also not the esaiest course as theres quite alot of uphill at the start.

According to P&D, you at this stage a 22 mile run should take you your expected marathon time, so 2:47 and 16 mins has you well under 3:15. You're right to take confidence from this run, now enjoy your taper, don't do anything crazy, and you're in great shape for Paris.

Woddle

Cheers DP and SJ. Very happy with todays run, I took my caffiene gels every 30 mins and wore my race day runners and gear and guess what DP I'm currently drinking another bottle of wine.:D
As regards taper, I'll just be doing easy runs and some fast shorter stuff. I have a 12 miler penciled in for next Sunday and thats it.

TheRoadRunner

Woddle wrote: »

As regards taper, I'll just be doing easy runs and some fast shorter stuff. I have a 12 miler penciled in for next Sunday and thats it.

Sounds sensible.

Good run today, great idea wearing race day gear etc. How do you find the gels ? I can't stomach them at all. I have tried loads of different types in training but they don't agree with me at all

Woddle

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Sounds sensible.

Good run today, great idea wearing race day gear etc. How do you find the gels ? I can't stomach them at all. I have tried loads of different types in training but they don't agree with me at all

Cheers roadrunner, I tried the hi5 non caf last week but felt I got no benefit out of them, so that night I ordered the caffinated ones from wiggle. I used these in the Dublin marathon and took 1 every 25 mins, I found them great but I must admit to being a bit wired for the rest of the day and some of the following. My stomach seems to be able to handle it easy enough aswell.

Woddle

Just over 4 miles, I still felt very stiff from Sundays run so I'm going to postpone my speed work till Thursday/Friday.

Krusty_Clown

Just looking back on your last long run, that's a great pace for a difficult course. You must be feeling well positive now. Have you made up your mind about your pace/target time for Paris?

When the dust has settled from Paris, you should come out my way for a long run at some stage. A change of scenery, some new hills, and good country roads (and good country smells!) might make a nice change.

Woddle

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Just looking back on your last long run, that's a great pace for a difficult course. You must be feeling well positive now. Have you made up your mind about your pace/target time for Paris?

When the dust has settled from Paris, you should come out my way for a long run at some stage. A change of scenery, some new hills, and good country roads (and good country smells!) might make a nice change.

I did out a wrist pace band and have set my garmin for 7:36 mins/mile which is 3:20. If it's going well on the day I'll try step it up towards the end.

Very happy with the last long run and it was quite breezy also.

One of the benefits of this site and Boards AC is that there is no shortage of running partners. I would love to join up with you on a few long runs especially when we're building towards Berlin. I mentioned it to Donothoponpop aswell for meeting up as he's a very nice guy and he too can show me some scenic routes.
Stupid private passed this on to me and I feel its sth Boards AC should aim for so in every corner of Ireland you have a running group that you can tack on to.
http://www.serpentine.org.uk/

Woddle

5.12 miles in 40:01, pace 7:49
Average HR 81%
Man do I hate the wind. I tried out another pair of runners today, the pearl izumi pace +, there lighter than my brooks adrenaline and they have a nice bouncy feeling of them, were as my brooks(new pair gts 9) kind of feel like a football boot or maybe astro runners. So I'm now thinking of wearing these for Paris, I'll see how Sundays 12 miler goes in them first.

kennyb3

Woddle wrote: »

5.12 miles in 40:01, pace 7:49
Average HR
Man do I hate the wind. I tried out another pair of runners today, the pearl izumi pace +, there lighter than my brooks adrenaline and they have a nice bouncy feeling of them, were as my brooks(new pair gts 9) kind of feel like a football boot or maybe astro runners. So I'm now thinking of wearing these for Paris, I'll see how Sundays 12 miler goes in them first.

i ll second the hatred of teh wind. it is a runners nightmare, id prefer rain, sleet or snow before it. it can be so difficult to get your breathing right in it. only 10 days to go, nervous yet?

Woddle

I'm a bit bored today so here's a bit of waffle, this marathon training cycle under a microscope and before I commence I am pleased with my effort but as we go on I reckon we can see what sessions I'm neglecting.
What I aimed for in a paticular run was a tempo,speed,medium long run(10-14.99) and a long run(>15 miles), so how did I do

---

Miles I ran / pfitzinger miles
Week 1 29/32 nothing just easy running
Week 2 21/36 no lsr
Week 3 40/40 no lsr
Week 4 16/42 took a break :rolleyes:
Week 5 38/46 ticked all the boxes
Week 6 50/37 ticked all the boxes
Week 7 46/50 no tempo
Week 8 30/54 2 speed ses & a race but no tempo or lsr
Week 9 44/47 no lsr or tempo
Week10 55/43 ticked all the boxes
Week11 54/55 no tempo but did do 2xlsr
Week12 23/50 no lsr or speed
Week13 55/51 no tempo run
Week14 15/50 neglected everything but had a 10 mile race
Week15 27/49 no lsr
Week16 62/43 ticked all the boxes incl 2xlsr
Week17 35/32
Week18 48/48 not complete yet

This post will be important when Berlin begins but when I look over it now I really am happy that I have 80% completed and properly. I read Amadeus post about your 5 longest runs adding up to a 100, mine adds up to 96.3 compared with 78 for the Longford build up. Also I will run 688 miles in these 18 weeks compared with 551 for Longford. Can't wait 9 days to go now and am I nervous Kennyb, yep but it's the good type, my mind is like bring it on now

Abhainn

I like to keep a good log like you Woddle, it is very valuable and is an important tool. Looks like your well set for next weekend.
A good improvement over DM looks odds on