"It's what you do next that counts"

cfitz

You sound a bit fed up of it. Maybe:

Take 2 full weeks off and forget about running. Don't log on here

Run every 2nd day for the following 2 weeks.

Then, for the next 8 weeks, build your mileage back really gradually. Max long run of 70 minutes. Don't race during this time. Racing when you're not in shape isn't likely to help get the hunger back.

Next, pick a race distance (5k/5m/10k) and aim to run well over that distance in November/December. Any races run before then should be in preparation for this goal.

Then maybe take another few days off and worry about the next target.

Woddle

cfitz wrote: »

You sound a bit fed up of it. Maybe:

Take 2 full weeks off and forget about running. Don't log on here

Agree with you on both of these points, actually now that my mind is made up I'm feeling a bit more excited about a 10k attempt. Don't know if you saw this link yet 3k congrats on the good run

RacoonQueen

Woddle wrote: »

Thanks RQ but I feel I would only want to race for pbs and of late I've been kidding myself thinking that I deserve pbs, pbs are why I run moreso than the enjoying the occasion.

Aye, well most of us are after pbs all the time, usually if I feel like it's going to go wrong I'll pull out in the days leading up to it...or like the disaster that was the cupids dash I pulled out at 6k and that was devastating for me.

I'm dead jealous that you've been able to make this decision about dropping the marathons, it's something I had been thinking of myself before I paid for Dublin and improving the 5k, 10k times etc before maybe going back to the marathons and the like after maybe 9 - 12 months or so. Hopefully I'll be brave enough to make the decision you have, maybe next year though I want to run Conn Ultra again next year.

Seres

cfitz wrote: »

You sound a bit fed up of it. Maybe:

Take 2 full weeks off and forget about running. Don't log on here

Run every 2nd day for the following 2 weeks.

Then, for the next 8 weeks, build your mileage back really gradually. Max long run of 70 minutes. Don't race during this time. Racing when you're not in shape isn't likely to help get the hunger back.

Next, pick a race distance (5k/5m/10k) and aim to run well over that distance in November/December. Any races run before then should be in preparation for this goal.

Then maybe take another few days off and worry about the next target.

thats sounds like really good advice , might take it at the end of the summer when i feel i need a break

shels4ever

Woddle wrote: »

This idea is starting to appeal to me. I got asked today how is everything going and this was my response

Not alot, I'm having a hard time of it, all my own doing. Did nothing again for the last week, pulled out of the 5 miler, I blamed it on a sore foot but that was just an excuse, foot wasn't that sore. I kicked it off a rock while swimming in the sea.
I have had yet another good think and I think I'm caught in two minds.
Do I want to do a marathon this year? No
Do I feel I have to as I've paid for everything?Yes

I told my wife yesterday that I'm not going back to Wexford till the middle of August, sth just comes over me and I refuse to run down there, making every excuse you can think of. It has put me in rotten form and I've found myself snapping alot at all the small things, trying to buy a house at the moment aswell and that is causing a bit of stress.
I was thinking of just saying fcek the marathons and just enjoy jogging for a bit and race the last graded meet and then have a look at the situation again. Sorry for the long winded waffle. Came home yesterday evening from Wexford and I got out for 6 hilly miles this morning and found it so tough.
How are things with yourself. Will you race the next graded meet?
I was thinking of asking Adam Jones if I could join them for a few sessions.
Full of ideas and thoughts but not alot of action.

This might seem very negative and it is but it's good for me to be realistic and not kid myself. Any thoughts or opinions are welcome on the to run or not to run the marathon.

Today
6.04 hilly miles,pace 8'28, silly route now that I think of it having done nothing for a week.
Average HR 79%, felt very tough and I can't remember the last time I was so red faced.

To be honest I think its the correct call . You've been basically been on a hard slog for the last 18 months with Marathon after marathon and while the body is able it does take a tole on the mind. I would say the best idea is to pick a long term goal something the RF has prob suggested. My approach to training isn't perfect but i've sat down and wrote down a couple of times that I WILL run. These are the long term target and then i've set up my plan to get me there.

It may take 18 months 2 years but I'll enjoy it on the way. At the moment i'm on a 12 week plan to get me to teh XC season then I'll have a 4 week rest easy running to get ready for the next phase. I'll never have more then 12-16 week of hard training as I need to take a break from the hard stuff , the break will just be easy jogging . Sometimes you just need to run to enjoy it and not because you have to run becasue your training plan says so.

You seem to really enjoy racing and racing often besause of this Marathons may not be the best idea for you as you do need to cut back on races to focus on your training plan. I do think you'd be better off in the long term to focus on a peak period rather then a peak race, this way you can train hard and then peak for a 4-6 week period and race the hell out of yourself... With a marathon its peaking for one day.

MCOS

+1 take a break from running. Maybe get a bike or jump in a pool! XT for a week or so and start to run again only when the desire to do so returns.

Woddle

Thanks Shels and MCOS, makes a lot of sense. I went for a run this morning though and for the first time really enjoyed it, the reason is obvious I've let the marathon go for now.
When is the novice xc?

Peckham

Running Bing wrote: »

with the rate of pull outs on here the Berlin organisers must be getting worried:D).

They've still got our money. I'm sure they're sleeping easily!

Woddle wrote: »

When is the novice xc?

I tried to find this out also - think it's at the start of December (at least it was last year/year before). Think this is definitely going to be a target race for me. I've two targets now - Pearl Izumi 10k and XC Novices (a strong Boards AC team for the latter I think!).

shels4ever

Woddle wrote: »

Thanks Shels and MCOS, makes a lot of sense. I went for a run this morning though and for the first time really enjoyed it, the reason is obvious I've let the marathon go for now.
When is the novice xc?

4ht or 11th of October , I though it was 11th but looks like the 4th. Then you will have your local 5k later in that months.. so lots of races

Racing Flat

Woddle wrote: »

This idea is starting to appeal to me. I got asked today how is everything going and this was my response

Not alot, I'm having a hard time of it, all my own doing. Did nothing again for the last week, pulled out of the 5 miler, I blamed it on a sore foot but that was just an excuse, foot wasn't that sore. I kicked it off a rock while swimming in the sea.
I have had yet another good think and I think I'm caught in two minds.
Do I want to do a marathon this year? No
Do I feel I have to as I've paid for everything?Yes

I told my wife yesterday that I'm not going back to Wexford till the middle of August, sth just comes over me and I refuse to run down there, making every excuse you can think of. It has put me in rotten form and I've found myself snapping alot at all the small things, trying to buy a house at the moment aswell and that is causing a bit of stress.
I was thinking of just saying fcek the marathons and just enjoy jogging for a bit and race the last graded meet and then have a look at the situation again. Sorry for the long winded waffle. Came home yesterday evening from Wexford and I got out for 6 hilly miles this morning and found it so tough.
How are things with yourself. Will you race the next graded meet?
I was thinking of asking Adam Jones if I could join them for a few sessions.
Full of ideas and thoughts but not alot of action.

The problem here as you and others have identified is lack of motivation. The cause is probably too much racing, particularly over longer distances. I think people who run mainly road races tend to suffer from this. Road races tend to be one off events, so organisers will put them on whenever suits them. So essentially there are a few road races every week up and down the country. And people can just get into the habit of running all these races. If you run for the occasion, or perhaps if you have passed your peak and are just enjoying running this is fine. Look at Nuala Reilly and Dave Brady who can clock up close to 100 races a year. But if you want PBs, this will not work. People who run track and cross country may be less prone to this over racing as these races are typically organised by county boards and with a plan in mind. E.g. Novice XC champs are typically organised for Oct (county), Nov (provincial) and Dec (National), so you have only 3 races in about 8-10 weeks but with each getting progressively harder in terms of standard. Similarly if you are racing on the track you might be aiming to peak for one big club race, or County Champs or Nationals.

Rather than just racing every race out there, I think you're better off picking a target race, a few months away. Then you should go into base training, have a few build-up races and then the peak race, After which you might get in one or 2 'bonus' races before having a break / going back to base for the next target. You can only do this about 3 times a year, maybe only twice if you want to incorporate a marathon.

In my case, I typically pick 3 targets, e.g. Ballycotton in March, some track distance that I'll want to peak for in the summer and then the National Novice XC. This kind of splits the year in 3: road, track, XC, but that's more accident than design.

Base training will make you strong and get the hunger back for racing. Then in the build-up races, you might feel strong but a bit out of tune with racing but after about 2 of these you'll be ready for the key race and hopefully toe the start line knowing you are going to PB. After that you might enter one or two races seeing if you can get a bit more out of your peak, but without so much pressure - bonus races, e.g. St. Patricks Day 5k is a week after Ballycotton, Jingle Bells 5k is usually a week after National Novice. And then with a few new PBs under the arm, you go back to base training with new training paces, as you are now a bit faster, so that you set higher targets for the next time so you are constantly chipping away at your times, bringing them all down.

Woddle

Cheers again Racing flat you do make it sound easy but maybe my new log title should be Running is not so easy. My next race target will be the Pearl izumi 10k in 8 weeks time.

shels4ever

Woddle wrote: »

Cheers again Racing flat you do make it sound easy but maybe my new log title should be Running is not so easy. My next race target will be the Pearl izumi 10k in 8 weeks time.

Running is easy .. running well is the hard part . Enjoy yoruself for the next week or so then get back into it. Try to target making the Boards A team for the XC season ...

Woddle

Well now that I'm not doing Berlin, guess what I really enjoyed my weeks training.

Tue 6 miles, pace 8:28, then I went indoor football where I was just electic
Wed 4 and a bit miles which included 10x400, average pace 91 and I finished it with 2x200 at 32 second
Fri 5.9 miles which included 1x2 miles @ 6:58 pace, 5 min jog, 1x1 mile @ 6:45 pace
Sun 16.05 miles in 2 hours 16, pace 8:28, average HR 75%, I really enjoyed this run, it rained on me for the first mile and then it was just beautiful, headed up the mountains before coming back down to marlay and St Endas parks.

I'm going to race Raheny 2 mile on Tuesday and I'm going to use this race for my training paces because the 400s that I did I kind of just plucked 90-95 seconds out of the air.

BeepBeep67

Back on track -well done - catch ya Tues!

tisnotover

Woddle wrote: »

Well now that I'm not doing Berlin, guess what I really enjoyed my weeks training.

Tue 6 miles, pace 8:28, then I went indoor football where I was just electic
Wed 4 and a bit miles which included 10x400, average pace 91 and I finished it with 2x200 at 32 second
Fri 5.9 miles which included 1x2 miles @ 6:58 pace, 5 min jog, 1x1 mile @ 6:45 pace
Sun 16.05 miles in 2 hours 16, pace 8:28, average HR 75%, I really enjoyed this run, it rained on me for the first mile and then it was just beautiful, headed up the mountains before coming back down to marlay and St Endas parks.

I'm going to race Raheny 2 mile on Tuesday and I'm going to use this race for my training paces because the 400s that I did I kind of just plucked 90-95 seconds out of the air.

A solid weeks training there Woddle, great to hear your back enjoying it again.
Best of luck on Tuesday!

shels4ever

Woddle wrote: »

Well now that I'm not doing Berlin, guess what I really enjoyed my weeks training.

Tue 6 miles, pace 8:28, then I went indoor football where I was just electic
Wed 4 and a bit miles which included 10x400, average pace 91 and I finished it with 2x200 at 32 second
Fri 5.9 miles which included 1x2 miles @ 6:58 pace, 5 min jog, 1x1 mile @ 6:45 pace
Sun 16.05 miles in 2 hours 16, pace 8:28, average HR 75%, I really enjoyed this run, it rained on me for the first mile and then it was just beautiful, headed up the mountains before coming back down to marlay and St Endas parks.

I'm going to race Raheny 2 mile on Tuesday and I'm going to use this race for my training paces because the 400s that I did I kind of just plucked 90-95 seconds out of the air.

I'd say you should be looing for 91-92 for your 400's . i do mine in about 95 your still that bit faster . Best of luck on tuesday would love to do it myself .

Woddle

Didn't get out till about 20:30 tonight and it was nice, nobody about for some reason, although I did see a ginger haired Rathfarnham wsaf runner, I reckon he's about 16-18 but the guy makes it look effortless and the speed of him aswell.

The legs felt super and I found myself running at 7:45 pace, the plan was at the end of every mile give it a burst for a 100m in prep for tomorrows race. I've not tapered too well for this race with 16 miles yesterday and a faster than normal day today but can't wait for it. In previous races I've been feeling some kind of pressure or unease but can't put my finger on it. So I'm glad to be feeling more relaxes.
Last time I ran this race I ran 12:21 and was slightly disappointed as I knew I could have pushed harder. My hope for tomorrows race is to try and get as close to 12:21 and then just build from there.

Tonight
5 miles in 37:57, pace 7:35
Average HR 77% which I'm glad of

shels4ever

Good luck tonight, 12:21 target .... I would have been looking for sub 12:30 myself tonight might have been a bit of a race ..

Woddle

shels4ever wrote: »

Good luck tonight, 12:21 target .... I would have been looking for sub 12:30 myself tonight might have been a bit of a race ..

I'm going to have to try and step training up a notch to get ahead of you. I've really stalled of late but as of today onwards and upwards.

shels4ever

Woddle wrote: »

I'm going to have to try and step training up a notch to get ahead of you. I've really stalled of late but as of today onwards and upwards.

I woul;dnt say stalled , you'd hammer me over in any race between 3 mile-26 miles ...;)

Woddle

shels4ever wrote: »

I woul;dnt say stalled , you'd hammer me over in any race between 3 mile-26 miles ...;)

I think your what we call a hustler in this line of business

You should do the 1500m graded meet next Wednesday, that'll be a good fight, we could take bets

shels4ever

Woddle wrote: »

I think your what we call a hustler in this line of business

You should do the 1500m graded meet next Wednesday, that'll be a good fight, we could take bets

I was planning on that but wont risk the leg jsut yet, next race wil be the Bhaa 3000m

Woddle

Conditions have helped me to change my mind about running tonight, Raheny seems like a long way from Ballyboden in the wind and rain . So I'm going to go indoor footy instead and hit the track tomorrow lunch time.

Woddle

Out to UCD today for a bit of speed.
1 mile warm up
2x1k - 3:48, 3:51, my running partner of the day refused to do another one(probably a bit much in fairness to him) So..
5x400 with 1 min rest 89,88,87,87,87( running partner lasted 2 of these before complaining of a stitch)
2x200m with full recovery 31,31
1/2 mile cool down, running partner wanted to go and he was driving.

I really enjoyed the session and it was lovely and sunny at the time, the only thing I might change is doing the warm up and cool down off track as going round and round can be a little mentally draining but I do enjoy the fast stuff on the track.

Woddle

I ran with the same running partner as yesterday, the target was 10 miles easy but I got a little annoyed as everytime we passed a group of people or traffic lights he kept speeding up (especially passing women) and I had to keep reminding him it was easy. My legs were stiff so I called it a day at 8 and told my running partner if he wants company in future he better start sticking to the plan and I hope he does keep it up as I reckon the guy has a bit of talent for the sport. He's 6ft5 and has a very easy and comfortable looking stride, a new recruit for Boards AC maybe.

8 miles in 66'11,pace 8'16
Average HR 74%
43 miles to go to a 1,000

BeepBeep67

Woddle wrote: »

43 miles to go to a 1,000

Next Thurs/Fri? Could be an important date!

shels4ever

Woddle wrote: »

I ran with the same running partner as yesterday, the target was 10 miles easy but I got a little annoyed as everytime we passed a group of people or traffic lights he kept speeding up (especially passing women) and I had to keep reminding him it was easy. My legs were stiff so I called it a day at 8 and told my running partner if he wants company in future he better start sticking to the plan and I hope he does keep it up as I reckon the guy has a bit of talent for the sport. He's 6ft5 and has a very easy and comfortable looking stride, a new recruit for Boards AC maybe.

8 miles in 66'11,pace 8'16
Average HR 74%
43 miles to go to a 1,000

Do you have a specific plan that you are following at the moment, i'm following one that I could send you if your going to focus on the Novice XC

Woddle

shels4ever wrote: »

Do you have a specific plan that you are following at the moment, i'm following one that I could send you if your going to focus on the Novice XC

No plan as such. I had a little chat with stupid private and I decided I for the time being I'm going to do what I want and enjoy. So 1 lsr,1 track session and 1 tempo and I'll fill up the rest of the week with easy stuff. Decided to cross train today in the NAC with some waves and slides, it was class

jlang

Woddle wrote: »

Decided to cross train today in the NAC with some waves and slides, it was class

I joined as a member a few months back as it's pretty much my local pool and I want to learn to swim but in all the times I've been there I haven't gone into the fun side (or upstairs to the gym, for that matter). Wouldn't feel right going in there on my own but I've a little while to wait before I can bring offspring. And not going to the gym is just a habit I've never broken - what if I ended up liking the treadmill? (shudder)

I think you're right about doing what you enjoy. If you read back, your log shows periods where you're loving your running and others when you're only doing it because you feel you have to or need to. The latter seem to come just before when you take time off and come back with a new plan. Sticking to intensity levels or targets that you'll enjoy might help with the staying consistent.

Woddle

Sat 1st of August
15.97 miles in 2:24:44, pace 9:04
Average HR 74%

Tue 4th of August
Indoor footy

Thur 6th of August
17:45 miles in 2:39:04, pace 9:07
Average HR 75%

I have just over 8 1/2 miles to go to complete the 1000 mile challenge, I'm making it my mission to finish it tomorrow