"It's what you do next that counts"

Oryx

Nice early start! Thats a good ol run, the amount of walking is hardly worth talking about.

Woddle

My legs were very tired after Sundays run so treated them to a day off. My back is nearly 100% again.
My wife is on easter holidays so I'm going to take advantage of this fact and get out early which is exactly what I did today.
A beautiful morning for a run (5.5 miles) but my legs and heart didn't think so. It was a very laboured effort. I'm not concerned though as I know the body is still recovering from Sundays long run.

The rest of the week should go like this
wed-5
thu-7 with 5x1k
sat-5
sun-12 run only

shels4ever

Are you going to use the run/walk thing during the marathon too?

Woddle

shels4ever wrote: »

Are you going to use the run/walk thing during the marathon too?

Absolutely as I know I won't get around otherwise.

shels4ever

Woddle wrote: »

Absolutely as I know I won't get around otherwise.

Cool , was reading about some of this a few months ago and it seems that you should get your walking early in the race and not at the point when your getting tired.

I'd say you have read this already

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-380-381--236-2-3X5X7X8-5,00.html

Basically run 1 mile walk 60 second. Think it would drive me crazy

Woddle

Cheers for that shels, will give it a read later.
I was listening to Galloway on marathon talk a few weeks back and he made the same point as yourself about walking earlier. I'm experimenting with the long runs at the moment to see what suits and what I'm leaning towards is a 4 mile run followed by 4 minutes walking. The walking would then coincide with gel and water intake.

Woddle

4.2 hilly miles today. Legs and heart back to normal but I may have spoke too soon regarding my back. It's more of a discomfort than a crippling pain. When I move in certain ways it seems to aggravate it but not so much when I'm running or maybe that's the pain killers talking

menoscemo

I think there is only one cure for the back pain. Simply put, it involves getting rid of the belly

Woddle

menoscemo wrote: »

t involves getting rid of the belly

Doing my best.
You want to have seen the sissy fit I had because I couldn't get a top to fit for todays run.

TheRoadRunner

Woddle wrote: »

4.2 hilly miles today. Legs and heart back to normal but I may have spoke too soon regarding my back. It's more of a discomfort than a crippling pain. When I move in certain ways it seems to aggravate it but not so much when I'm running or maybe that's the pain killers talking

Have you any tightness around hips or hamstrings? My back pain originates from tight hip flexers. Might be worth your while doing some extra stretching, point of pain (back in your case) may be due an imbalance somewhere else in the body.

ecoli

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Have you any tightness around hips or hamstrings? My back pain originates from tight hip flexers. Might be worth your while doing some extra stretching, point of pain (back in your case) may be due an imbalance somewhere else in the body.

+1 on this advice. Have back pain myself at the moment and it down to my hips and my glute minimus (above my ass but below my back:D) glutes piriformus and hammy s can all add to these kinda pains

Woddle

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Have you any tightness around hips or hamstrings? My back pain originates from tight hip flexers. Might be worth your while doing some extra stretching, point of pain (back in your case) may be due an imbalance somewhere else in the body.

No real tightness anywhere else, I've been very good at stretching of late.
I did however foam roll my back earlier which was quite painful, there's a knot on the lower left side just above the waist. If the problem persists I'll go get it looked at properly.

kennyb3

+1 to what the lads say, i ve a problem with my QL muscle at present but the physio also found the hip flexors being tight adding to it significantly.

Definitely get it looked at sooner rather than later - painkillers arent the answer. Maybe go herbal and try devils claw for any inflammation.

shels4ever

kennyb3 wrote: »

+1 to what the lads say, i ve a problem with my QL muscle at present but the physio also found the hip flexors being tight adding to it significantly.

Definitely get it looked at sooner rather than later - painkillers arent the answer. Maybe go herbal and try devils claw for any inflammation.

Does that stuff actually work?

kennyb3

shels4ever wrote: »

Does that stuff actually work?

Hmm, it's next to impossible for me to prove it working for me if you get me but i feel it does. My physio swears by it and was nagging me to take it - i was on difene but the arguement being that the painkillers allow you to overstretch without feeling pain (therby doing damage) whereas something more natural would reduce inflammation but doesn't hide the pain so you restrict movement accordingly. Makes sense to me.

Woddle

Last weeks workout

Woddle wrote: »

1. 4'07, AHR 177
recovery 2'24
2. 4'10, AHR 180
recovery 2'15
3. 4'20, AHR 180
recovery 2'05
4. 4'28, AHR 180
recovery 1'55

4k in 17'06, AHR 179, max HR 188

1. 4'14, AHR 176
recovery 2'06
2. 4'15, AHR 180
recovery 3'16
3. 4'16, AHR 181
recovery 2'06
4. 4'24, AHR 181
recovery 1'48

4k in 17'11, AHR 180, max HR 191

Exact same session as last week and all the figures are similar. I was more consistent with pacing today though as I had the workout set up on the garmin, made life alot easier. No idea how it took me 3 minutes to recover after the 2nd (recovery = time till HR gets to 130bpm)

I hadn't been in the humour for this but realised I'm still afraid of tough workouts. I nearly convinced myself to go on a 12 miler instead.

Day off from running tomorrow so going to get the bike out instead as tri795 is only round the corner aswell.

Woddle

Over the last couple of days I've been trying to set a target for Sportsworld 5 miler in a couple of weeks time and it just so happens I decided not to run an lsr this week as I know last weeks 16 took alot out of me. So perfect timing for a 5 mile time trial
So I decided to warm up on the turbo and then straight from the front door just try and run controlled and keep within a certain HR. As usual I didn't follow the plan. Started way too quick and the first 1/2 mile is all uphill , very silly but still not a bad effort and I reckon sub 40 is on and maybe in a couple of weeks even sub 38.

Mile 1 - 7'59
Mile 2 - 8'16
Mile 3 - 8'19
Mile 4 - 8'21
Mile 5 - 8'36

41'31, AHR 178

I ran another 5 after this at a very slow pace and it felt like I was out there forever, torture.

osnola ibax

You git, very jealous. That's good going mate, delighted for you. Things bode well.

Woddle

osnola ivax wrote: »

You git, very jealous. That's good going mate, delighted for you. Things bode well.

Cheers Xavi. Good to see you back in action and I'm sure you'll be flying in a few weeks after a bit of consistency.

Oryx

Thats good stuff. Its that time of year again when everyones banging it out good luck in your race.

On the back pain thing, I get whats been mentioned above, tight glutes, or rather the muscles in your lower back. Gives horrible backache. Running makes em stiff, but deep massage or needling sorts it out for me for ages. In case it helps.

Woddle

Body was far too tired to do anything yesterday and today I decided to just go indoor footy. I was going to wear my HR monitor and see how much an hour of football takes out of me. To my surprise it takes a damn lot out of you.
For the hour tonight my AHR was 173 and was maxing at 192, just to give you an idea of what that means my easy runs are 150-160 and Sundays 5 mile time trial was 178.
Don't quite know what it all means but still some interesting info.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/81801746

Rest of week
Wed - 8-10 miles easy
Thur - 7 miles inc 5x1k
Sat - 5 miles easy
Sun - 18-20 miles walk/run

theboyblunder

Woddle wrote: »

Body was far too tired to do anything yesterday and today I decided to just go indoor footy. I was going to wear my HR monitor and see how much an hour of football takes out of me. To my surprise it takes a damn lot out of you.

Yeah I have the dirty football habit as well. It does take a lot out. When training for barcelona I honestly felt worse the morning after ball than I did the morning after some of those awful Daniels long runs with 7-8 tempo miles thrown in. I didnt log it too much because I knew what id get Its all the sprinting and stop-starting I reckon. Still, all worth it when you score that one screamer

Keep up the training - interested to see how this weeks intervals go - I found the third session back was when I started to find them a little easier.

Woddle

theboyblunder wrote: »

Keep up the training - interested to see how this weeks intervals go - I found the third session back was when I started to find them a little easier.

Cheers for that.

I had a shocker tonight, I was just so slow and sluggish.
I'm going to have company for the intervals this week so no excuses for not getting the 5 done.

Woddle

Last weeks workout

Woddle wrote: »

1. 4'14, AHR 176
recovery 2'06
2. 4'15, AHR 180
recovery 3'16
3. 4'16, AHR 181
recovery 2'06
4. 4'24, AHR 181
recovery 1'48

4k in 17'11 (4'18 per k average), AHR 180, max HR 191
.

1. 4'08, AHR 174
recovery 2'30
2. 4'15, AHR 181
recovery 2'30
3. 4'18, AHR 183
recovery 2'30
4. 4'18, AHR 183
recovery 2'30
5. 4'15, AHR 184

5k in 21'14 (4'15 per k average), AHR 180, max HR 193

For some strange reason I was getting myself into a tizzy in anticipation of this session which led to a headache. I started to feel the way I do before races, a dose of anxiety. I finally copped myself on and played it down a little in front of meno and gerard65.
I had Menoscemo for company and this turned out to be a godsend as the reps went quicker and just the fact that he was there helped me get through the 5th, thanks man.
Actually delighted with this session. It felt alot easier than the previous two weeks even though my heart rate was slightly up and maybe should have done a 6th. Another reason for the session feeling easier could be that I increased my recovery in between to 2'30 (this was to make sure I got the 5 done) instead of the average 2.
On the cooldown home the legs still felt good which is another good sign.
Twas a good day and thank you Mr solpadine, headache is near gone

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Good work Woddle.

Woddle

What a lovely run I had this morning. I ran the back road up to marlay and then out of marlay into the hermitage (st endas park) and when your running easy the parks really come alive.
5 miles at 9'20 pace
AHR 156bpm/71% HRR


miles to add 5

Woddle

Plan was for 18-20 miles. I decided to use a different route that myself figs and Ral3 used to do. I remembered it as being easier than my hilly route around Ballyboden, it's not
I woke at 6:30 and was really looking forward to the run, first objective though was to not wake the baby as this would lead to a huge delay. When I was in the kitchen I could hear sth going on but it was just the 5 year old, thanked God and then out the door at 7am.
The plan was to keep the HR way down (150s) and that went well for the first 5 miles and everything felt easy but then the HR started to rise. I tried in vain to correct my pace. When I look back over the course elevation you can see that the first 5 miles are downhill (easy) and then pretty much the rest are all slight inclines (hard) bar 1 or 2.
The nutrition plan when setting off was to stop every 4 miles and walk for 4 minutes while taking a gel (thanks RK as my wiggle delivery still hasn't arrived) and water but I didn't stick to it. It's just under 6 miles from my house to the phoenix park so I thought I'd take the first one then, as I wasn't enjoying the run along the dirty streets and having to dodge alcohol filled vomit lakes and really just wanted to get into the park asap. This turned out to be a disaster and the nutrition plan failed.
I then died from about 13 miles on and walked far more than I should have. So in total 18 slow miles and a few lessons learned, the high light by far was running in the phoenix park but next week I'll be sticking to the hills just up from Ballyboden and into marlay park.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/82655547

Plan for next week is 20 and and sticking to the nutrition plan.

ultraman1

Woddle wrote: »

The nutrition plan when setting off was to stop every 4 miles and walk for 4 minutes while taking a gel (thanks RK as my wiggle delivery still

Plan for next week is 20 and and sticking to the nutrition plan.

why plan for timed walk breaks,if you u are running to HR,why not just walk when ur heart rate goes over whatever limit u set and run again when it goes below...

thirstywork2

you did more miles than me today;)

rainbow kirby

Either way, it's still time on your feet and that's a very good thing at this stage.

Woddle

ultraman1 wrote: »

why plan for timed walk breaks,if you u are running to HR,why not just walk when ur heart rate goes over whatever limit u set and run again when it goes below...

Kind of did that towards the end, had me stopping every couple of mins
The heart rate was a big fail today aswell. The plan is to just make sure that I'm staying easy but as I said fail. I might end up following a suggestion you made when we ran together last year. You were training for an ultra and were thinking 5 mile run 1 mile walk.

Woddle

thirstywork2 wrote: »

you did more miles than me today;)

Only a couple of miles more but about twice the time

Woddle

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Either way, it's still time on your feet and that's a very good thing at this stage.

True but it really shows how my endurance = zero but hey what can you expect after 5 weeks back

Those gels were lovely, tasted like cool pops.

Woddle

Well it's taken me the last 2 days to feel anyway recovered from the weekends long run. I finally got out today and felt very laboured. Heart rate was good but legs were tired.
I've been in touch with the Cork marathon folks about dropping to the half. I feel it's the sensible thing to do, if I can't drop down I'll just run it as a half.
I'm not too disappointed as it served it's purpose, which was getting the finger out. I have a very soft marathon PB and I think even with the shape I'm in now I can take a few minutes off it.

Today 5 miles in 45 mins with a AHR of 162, 75%

shels4ever

Woddle wrote: »

Well it's taken me the last 2 days to feel anyway recovered from the weekends long run. I finally got out today and felt very laboured. Heart rate was good but legs were tired.
I've been in touch with the Cork marathon folks about dropping to the half. I feel it's the sensible thing to do, if I can't drop down I'll just run it as a half.
I'm not too disappointed as it served it's purpose, which was getting the finger out. I have a very soft marathon PB and I think even with the shape I'm in now I can take a few minutes off it.

Today 5 miles in 45 mins with a AHR of 162, 75%

Maybe a good call, no point suffering around a marathon and not enjoying it. You seem to be enjoying the shorter stuff so will you focus on the 1500m on the track this summer?

Whats your marathon pb?

Woddle

shels4ever wrote: »

Maybe a good call, no point suffering around a marathon and not enjoying it. You seem to be enjoying the shorter stuff so will you focus on the 1500m on the track this summer?

Whats your marathon pb?

I'll be hoping to do a couple of graded meets before the end of the summer and roll on to DM.

1500m - 5'14 graded meet 09
Marathon 3'37 DM08

I was actually looking at my 08 log today and I spotted this interesting fact. I ran 26'30 for a 5km in March and then ran 3'37 for the marathon in October.
Right now I reckon I'm quicker over 5k so sub 3'30in Dublin this year.

I noticed on your log you're keeping your training paces very quiet sneaky

shels4ever

Woddle wrote: »

I'll be hoping to do a couple of graded meets before the end of the summer and roll on to DM.

1500m - 5'14 graded meet 09
Marathon 3'37 DM08

I was actually looking at my 08 log today and I spotted this interesting fact. I ran 26'30 for a 5km in March and then ran 3'37 for the marathon in October.
Right now I reckon I'm quicker over 5k so sub 3'30in Dublin this year.

I noticed on your log you're keeping your training paces very quiet sneaky

yep you were running very well at that time, and were really consistant if you can stay injury free and keep going until dublin you should run a pb. I think you did longford at that time too?

I'm not too worried about my training pace at the moment just building up, will stick times back in at some point (maybe) was planning to shock you when I run 2:59 in Berlin

At the moment most my miles are 8:30/9:40 range with only a couple faster.

* no plan to run anywhere near 2:59

Woddle

shels4ever wrote: »

. I think you did longford at that time too?

and Berlin

2'59 next year for you, might join you

shels4ever

Woddle wrote: »

and Berlin

2'59 next year for you, might join you

Ah yes I remember that now.
After Berlin not sure when I'll run another marathon have a few other plans after that first.

menoscemo

Woddle wrote: »

I've been in touch with the Cork marathon folks about dropping to the half. I feel it's the sensible thing to do, if I can't drop down I'll just run it as a half.

It's unlikely I'm afraid. The half has a cap of 1,000 and it sold out months ago.

mithril

menoscemo wrote: »

It's unlikely I'm afraid. The half has a cap of 1,000 and it sold out months ago.

I suspect even though entry is closed for new entrants, they may still allow you to transfer to a different event on the same day.
After all, the cap is imposed to prevent excessive congestion on the route and you won't be an additional body on the course if you run the half.

Woddle

Woddle wrote: »

Last weeks workout
1. 4'08, AHR 174
recovery 2'30
2. 4'15, AHR 181
recovery 2'30
3. 4'18, AHR 183
recovery 2'30
4. 4'18, AHR 183
recovery 2'30
5. 4'15, AHR 184

5k in 21'14 (4'15 per k average), AHR 180, max HR 193

1. 4'13, AHR 170
recovery 2'30
2. 4'15, AHR 176
recovery 2'30
3. 4'14, AHR 177
recovery 2'30
4. 4'20, AHR 178
recovery 2'30
5. 4'15, AHR 180

5k in 21'18 (4'16 per k average), AHR 176, max HR 190

Well tonight made 4 Thursdays in a row of 1k reps, can't ever remember being this consistent with regards to speed training. I met Meno and Sharktale for these but it would be mainly myself and sharktale sticking together. We paced these brilliantly apart from me on the 4th. My legs felt heavy doing these (maybe Sundays 18 still in the legs) and every rep felt harder than last week but when I scan over my AHR for this evenings session, it's noticeably lower, surely a good sign. I really didn't want to do the last rep but we were joined by mithrill at this stage and between him and sharktale they dragged me around the last, thanks
There'll be no more 18 milers or the like in my running calendar for the forseeable future so hope to hammer next weeks reps.

7.35 miles in total.

Meno told me I might need the large version in the new boards tech top, I can take a hint so going to be even more strict on diet.

oh and also no anxiety issues tonight. yay

Woddle

I watched James Cracknell in the coldest toughest race this morning and I have to say I think the guy is a legend.
I had planned to meet Donotstopforpop for a recce of the Wicklow way relay leg 1. The last time I did this recce a few years ago I got lost but what I remembered was hills.
We were joined by a couple of lean Rathfarnham athletes aswell but they kind of ran on, yep I was slow tonight but there was a reason, the hills
Anyway off we went and your straight into a climb for over 2 miles and into a strong wind. I already felt like I was working too hard and wanted to stop but whenever I wanted to stop I just thought James Cracknell, can't believe this worked. After the climb I really enjoyed the downhill, it gave my calfs a break but then I started feeling it in my quads.
After the downhill we hit the road and I was delighted (donotstop not so much ) the 3 lads were stretching away from me but I didn't mind, I was saving myself for the next climb and I didn't know when it was coming.
It came just after 4.5 miles and it went on forever, my back was really hurting now aswell but I had Mr motivator beside me who told me we're just there, I thought ok and then I got there and there was more, then DP said only 600 meters, guess what he lied again and when I saw the next climb I was done, I was about to walk but then I thought James Cracknell and ploughed on. The rest was downhill and although I was feeling stiff, I was also feeling rather satisfied. I was delighted that I didn't give in to the darkside.
In total just under 9 miles (garmin froze twice) in about 90 minutes, AHR very high (forgot to put the monitor on)
We stopped in 3rock at the end for a well deserved pint, might not sound like it from the above report but I actually enjoyed it.

Tonights recce of leg 1
Thanks for an enjoyable run DP and pulling me through.

donothoponpop

Very enjoyable run, and a nice couple of pints after. Always a pleasure Dave:)

Woddle wrote: »

Thanks for an enjoyable run DP and pulling me through.

I never touched you, you pulled yourself through. It hurts like hell going up a mountain, especially if you're not used to it. Legs in screaming pain, breathing laboured, muscles aching- everything is telling you "walk", except the part of you that has you out there in the first place. You got yourself up those hills, without stopping, and it was inspirational to see you do it. That run will have huge benefits for you in the future, you know you can push through the pain. Well done.

Woddle

Not really, but the plan is to start having 5 day running weeks starting this week. I'm really really going to try and start running in the mornings as the days just keep getting away from me. So bed early last night, asleep by 10 and up at 5am :eek: and out the door at 5:30.
I felt very sluggish but my heart rate stayed low which was great. The plan was 7 but after 3.5 miles I started having stomach cramps, I walked for a few minutes to see if they'd go away and they did. To make up for the walking I picked up the pace and ran a 7'30 mile and it felt good. When I finished that mile I took the shorter route home as the cramps had returned, with each step they got worse. For a few minutes I really thought I wasn't going to make it and was looking for a possible solution but there was none to be found on a main road. Thankfully I made it home in the nick of time... ooh the relief

5.5 miles at an easy pace bar a mile

thirstywork2

had the same problem last week.took a pit stop and too my suprise a couple and their dog had seen me:o
Are you gona follow a programme ???
Im finding a coach really working for me,I want to do a race every week but know if I do it will ruin the consistant training im doing.

TheRoadRunner

thirstywork2 wrote: »

Are you gona follow a programme ???
Im finding a coach really working for me,I want to do a race every week but know if I do it will ruin the consistant training im doing.

Woddle is uncoachable He drove poor RacingFlat nuts

Woddle

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Woddle is uncoachable

Racing flats last words to me

I definitely do plan to take the next step and join a club, I just have to look at mistys log and see what it's done for him and I'll probably start looking at clubs in a couple of months.

Had a very enjoyable run yesterday evening.
My daughter has packed in her gaa training but I told her she has do sth else instead. So she wants to be a runner . She is too young to join dsd so she's going to go for a jog with her daddy on a Tuesday and Friday for the next few months. We did a lap of St Endas park and she was delighted with herself and we had a really nice chat along the way.

In bed early again last night and again out the door at 5:30 for 6 miles. My legs felt heavy and the 6 miles felt like they were the last 6 of a marathon. Delighted to be done for the day and it gives me 36 hours till my next run to recover.

RayCun

Woddle wrote: »

I definitely do plan to take the next step and join a club...
My daughter has packed in her gaa training but I told her she has do sth else instead. So she wants to be a runner ...

You should both come down to Bros Pearse. There's a big bunch of kids in three or four age groups, and a dozen adult runners training at the same time. Tuesdays and thursdays, 7-8pm.

Woddle

RayCun wrote: »

You should both come down to Bros Pearse. There's a big bunch of kids in three or four age groups, and a dozen adult runners training at the same time. Tuesdays and thursdays, 7-8pm.

Will definitely come into consideration as I like the idea of going training together.