Boss kept staff xmas presents for herself

Avatar MIA

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Almost minimum wage is standard in the sector
Private sector profiteering

Damn those profiteers forcing people to be child care workers and not set up their own creche because they're precluded from profiteering because of their principles.

Summer wind

nice_guy80 wrote: »

True. She knows that.

But creches bosses talk. Especially in a smaller town
If she leaves one place on a sour note what are chances of getting another job?

Maybe she could try shop work for awhile if there's anything going where ye live. That way she could say she just wants to try something new and wouldn't be leaving on a sour note. She could always go back to crèche work again afterwards if she wanted. Working in a bad environment can be stressful. Hope she gets on ok.

The Backwards Man

_Jamie_ wrote: »

Tedious devil's advocate position.

Na, when you get to my age and you've been both an employee and employer for more years than you were at school you learn not to take all gripes and grievances at face value.

There's nothing stopping the OP's wife and her coworkers setting up their own creche where workers are generously paid, Christmas presents are equitably shared and worksheets are endlessly photocopied, if they feel that strongly about the cabal of childcare providers in their area.

twinytwo

goat2 wrote: »

I did think that child carers were paid far better than that, as ye have to have qualifications to do this very responsible job, is there a standard payment

Its Ireland, in most areas qualifications have no input on your salary/rate of pay.

Lackey

Easy to let the parents know.
All you need is one parent to mention gifts, ask 'did you like it, little Johnny went and picked it out himself'
Reply confused and feign ignorance: 'oh, I didn't get a present from little Johnny.'
Word will soon spread. tell all the staff to do this if asked.
What a scroogey cow.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Skylinehead wrote: »

Mod: No, none of the brigading discussion please.

Soz.

nice_guy80

Summer wind wrote: »

Maybe she could try shop work for awhile if there's anything going where ye live. That way she could say she just wants to try something new and wouldn't be leaving on a sour note. She could always go back to crèche work again afterwards if she wanted. Working in a bad environment can be stressful. Hope she gets on ok.

She used to work in Dunnes.
Enough said

Avatar MIA

twinytwo wrote: »

Its Ireland, in most areas qualifications have no input on your salary/rate of pay.

Yeah, great bunch of people going off getting qualifications for the craic. Silly, accountants, lawyers, doctors, plumbers, architects, electricians, mechanics etc. working for minimum wage.

fima

nice_guy80 wrote: »

It's hard to hand draw 22 worksheets for every activity in the preschool

Bad practice to use worksheets, best to scrap them anyway. No need for a photocopier then.

buried

A Creche Christmas Carol

myshirt

What a right cnut. I once had this nearly happen to me when I was younger, we got a cash bonus for a job given to the head guy to share out amongst the four of us.

When time came to get out of the van on way home he tried to pocket it and intimidate the lads. Well I'll tell ya there wasn't a hope in hell he was pulling a fast one on me, I'd take his van off him before that.

Op, sometimes you got to give as much as you get with these people.

osarusan

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Yeah, great bunch of people going off getting qualifications for the craic. Silly, accountants, lawyers, doctors, plumbers, architects, electricians, mechanics etc. working for minimum wage.

I think the argument is that if once you get the job, your pay won't be that much/any different from somebody else doing the same job, even if one of you is better qualified than the other.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

The Backwards Man wrote: »

A tenner an hour?

In my day Grannies were the creche workers and they were lucky to get the price of a bingo book for their services

And damn glad of it they were too.

It's far from photocopiers and bottles of Jean Luc whatever you call him with our names sellotaped on him we were reared.

Hence the username...

Avatar MIA

osarusan wrote: »

I think the argument is that if once you get the job, your pay won't be that much/any different from somebody else doing the same job, even if one of you is better qualified than the other.

Not sure what qualifications that would be. How can one be better qualified and get a job that goes to someone that's required to be qualified?!?

Are they talking about someone with general degrees not progressing simply because they have a degree. That, I'd understand, and likely the degree is not the issue.

Chuchote

Staff need to unionise pronto. Not because of Christmas presents, but because of the lack of holidays, the going-on-the-dole in holiday time, etc. They need to straighten out their work conditions. They could go and talk to SIPTU, who should tell them if it can help, or if another union is more apposite.

They might also go to the local Citizens' Advice centre, or if they're afraid of snoopy eyes, to one in another town or city.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/employment_rights_and_duties/employment_law_update.html

osarusan

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Not sure what qualifications that would be. How can one be better qualified and get a job that goes to someone that's required to be qualified?!?

I'm thinking about situations where there is a minimum requirement of a certain qualification - but staff don't get more money for having qualifications that are above the minimum requirement. So,say a Master's degree is the minimum requirement - but a person won't get paid more even if they have a PhD.

givyjoe

frozenfrozen wrote: »

Where did you find that list?

Section 6(2) – The tort of defamation consists of the publication, by any means, of a

defamatory statement concerning a person to one or more than one person (other than the

first mentioned person)


Section 2 – “defamatory statement” means a statement that tends to injure a person’s

reputation in the eyes of reasonable members of society

Section 2 – “Statement” includes:-

a) A statement made orally or in writing

b) Visual images, sounds, gestures and any other method of signifying meaning,

c) A statement-

i. Broadcast on the radio or television, or

ii. Published on the internet, and

d) An electronic communication.


It is assumed false, so if the person causing the defamation was to choose the 'truth' defence they would have to prove the business owner stole the gifts.

If I found out that someone was allegedly stealing gifts it would lower their reputation in my eyes.

If the owner could find a parent who had heard the news (I'm absolutely certain they would obviously have at least one friend with a child using the creche) it would literally be an open and shut case

I seruously hope you don't work in the legal profession.

Open and shut case?! No one said stole, the thread title clearly states kept for herself. I'm sure the multiple staff members would be happy to confirm this.

Do you honestly believe that she would take a case like this to court?!

Donal55

Life's not fair. I worked with employers who gave xmas bonuses and worked with others who'd barely giive you the time of day.
Happens in all walks of life.

The Backwards Man

The Backwards Man wrote: »

A tenner an hour?

In my day Grannies were the creche workers and they were lucky to get the price of a bingo book for their services

And damn glad of it they were too.

It's far from photocopiers and bottles of Jean Luc whatever you call him with our names sellotaped on him we were reared.

In your day? I think you mentioned your age here before. You're about 10 years or so older than me and I'm in my 20's. Some of my siblings are older than you.

What kind of prehistoric place did you grow up in?

Avatar MIA

osarusan wrote: »

I'm thinking about situations where there is a minimum requirement of a certain qualification - but staff don't get more money for having qualifications that are above the minimum requirement. So,say a Master's degree is the minimum requirement - but a person won't get paid more even if they have a PhD.

In the above scenario what extra benefit would the PhD bring? What was the purpose for doing the PhD.

I wouldn't be a big believer in someone deserving greater pay just because they did research in a very particular area. If that's what they meant by 'This is Ireland' then I don't see the problem.

frozenfrozen

givyjoe wrote: »

I seruously hope you don't work in the legal profession.

Open and shut case?! No one said stole, the thread title clearly states kept for herself. I'm sure the multiple staff members would be happy to confirm this.

Do you honestly believe that she would take a case like this to court?!

You have no idea what you're talking about. The owner would win without contest and if someone dared to double down and go for a truth defence they would actually be splattered on a wall with aggravated / punitive damages alongside general and potential special damages for the damage to the owners business directly resulting in loss of income

Open and shut case. Yes. It is assumed to be false in court (that's how defamation works) and if you chose the truth defence you would have to prove that she stole them. Kept for herself is just a euphemism for stealing no?, if they are not hers to take for herself then she would be stealing them.

I honestly believe she would win if she took it to court after people went on facebook brigading her (as has been suggested on this thread) or if a member of staff told parents in a way that defamed the owner.

I seriously hope you don't ever give someone legal advice that they take

IANAL

CFlat

I worked for a company a few years ago and all the clients presents were out together and then staff names were put into a hat and when your name was pulled you chose whichever drink you wanted, the bosses name was NEVER in the hat.

I would like to say something though. Over the last few years I'm aware of some employers who, to keep their businesses afloat in difficult times, have taken very little or no wages in one case I personally know, have taken none whatsoever and lived off their spouses income. Far off hills are not as green as some people think.

nice_guy80

CFlat wrote: »

I worked for a company a few years ago and all the clients presents were out together and then staff names were put into a hat and when your name was pulled you chose whichever drink you wanted, the bosses name was NEVER in the hat.

I would like to say something though. Over the last few years I'm aware of some employers who, to keep their businesses afloat in difficult times, have taken very little or no wages in one case I personally know, have taken none whatsoever and lived off their spouses income. Far off hills are not as green as some people think.

This woman fired a girl earlier this year because she informed her she was pregnant. I **** you not.

Another girl quit as she reported the boss to Tusla over an incident with a child and then was basically forced out of the place

nice_guy80

nice_guy80 wrote: »

This woman fired a girl earlier this year because she informed her she was pregnant. I **** you not.
She was brought to court and settled

Another girl quit as she reported the boss to Tusla over an incident with a child and then was basically forced out of the place

OP you are making this creche easily identifiable.

nice_guy80

Deleted User wrote: »

OP you are making this creche easily identifiable.

no I'm not.

Tusla keep all investigations private.

the compensation for the girl fired never went to court, it was settled in an employment tribunal

goat2

Was the reason she had to leave, that she was pregnant and could no longer pick up children due to health and safety, as it may not be safe for her to be lifting little ones over a certain weight.

Donal55

This thread has certainly moved on from just boxes of chocolates for creche workers. Unfair dismissals, maternity leave infringements, breaches of h&s, referrals to Tusla, slander and defamation accusations.

I think the OP should refer this creche to the RTE Primetime Investigations Unit.

Or else just post the name of the creche here, for the sake of all our kids.

nice_guy80

Donal55 wrote: »

This thread has certainly moved on from just boxes of chocolates for creche workers. Unfair dismissals, maternity leave infringements, breaches of h&s, referrals to Tusla, slander and defamation accusations.

I think the OP should refer this creche to the RTE Primetime Investigations Unit.

Or else just post the name of the creche here, for the sake of all our kids.

Then the wife and 6 other girls would be out of a job

Donal55

So what else would the wife and 6 girls turn a blind eye to if its that bad?

nice_guy80

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Then the wife and 6 other girls would be out of a job

Google leads me to the case you mentioned OP. Now it may be an entirely different case but I just think you should be mindful what you post.

nice_guy80

Deleted User wrote: »

Google leads me to the case you mentioned OP. Now it may be an entirely different case but I just think you should be mindful what you post.

Wow.
Didn't even know that story was reported.

CFlat

You said a case went to court. All court cases have court reporters. I'm not sure why you're surprised.

nice_guy80

CFlat wrote: »

You said a case went to court. All court cases have court reporters. I'm not sure why you're surprised.

Employment Appeals Tribunal
I honestly didn't know that had appeared in a newspaper

Goya

goat2 wrote: »

She did leave the gifts that had the staff names to the people they were gifted to, she is the one who own the business, pay high insurance, electricity, rent of premises, products to take care of the children, and follow health and safety guidlines, accountant,

... and that's what creche fees (very expensive) are for.

The comments that the staff should just get over it and can set up their own creche if it's that bad (never mind the money it costs to set up a business and the fact that there is established competition - but they know all this) might make the commenters feel brilliant about themselves for being kinda edgy but they're just smug, obtuse and downright mean-spirited posts. That could be the pointless, unhelpful, stupid answer to any work grievance.

Treating staff poorly (it's not just the gifts) is bad form and employers who do it deserve criticism rather than it being deflected at the staff in the form of "They should set up their own business" just to be provocative.

goat2 wrote: »

I did think that child carers were paid far better than that, as ye have to have qualifications to do this very responsible job, is there a standard payment

It's notoriously poorly paid despite the level of responsibility.

Flimpson

Flimpson wrote: »

...

It's notoriously poorly paid despite the level of responsibility.

I once heard the following in jest, "Childcare...... hairdressing for ugly birds........"

nice_guy80

Augeo wrote: »

I once heard the following in jest, "Childcare...... hairdressing for ugly birds........"

3 of the girls in the creche have degrees

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

I once heard the following in jest, "Childcare...... hairdressing for ugly birds........"

A horrible remark. Working with children can be very difficult. It takes a lot of training and a certain temperament. It certainly isn't something just anyone can do.

Cartouche

Be VERY careful OP
You are about to land yourself in a lot of trouble

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

A horrible remark. Working with children can be very difficult. It takes a lot of training and a certain temperament. It certainly isn't something just anyone can do.

It takes lots of training to be a hairdresser too

nice_guy80

Augeo wrote: »

It takes lots of training to be a hairdresser too

you can train to be a hairdresser without ever having done the junior cert

there are girls working in creches who have masters in early childhood education

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

It takes lots of training to be a hairdresser too

It wasn't the hairdressing part of the comment I was responding to. It was pitting two industries against each other and throwing in a 'joke' about looks.

nice_guy80

nice_guy80 wrote: »

you can train to be a hairdresser without ever having done the junior cert

there are girls working in creches who have masters in early childhood education

No one working in a creche without a junior cert?

Shergar6

Not the same thing but i once did a work placement where i was split 70:30 between two departments. The dept manager where i was most of the time was sound out, couldn't have been nicer or more helpful. We got on great. The other one was odd af, barely talked to me and seemed to keep her distance. When i was leaving (12 week placement) i got the 'nice' manager a pretty decent thank you present seeing as i was with them the most. Got nothing for the other one and honestly didn't think she'd even notice i was gone.

cut to the chase - the 'nice' manager didn't even give me a thank you card. I'll be honest and say that i thought she'd get me a 20 euro voucher because i did help her out a lot and it wasn't like i was just there for a week, even a thank you card would have been an acknowledgement. Thought it was pretty lousy.

The 'weird' one comes along and gives me wine, chocolates and a really lovely card full of praise and thanks. Makes a real fuss of me. ..

Honestly, it just goes to show that you never know people, I would never have predicted that that's the way it would end up...

JimmyTClarke

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Basically the boss/owner treats the staff like crap.
The staff do all the work.
Go to courses on their own time.
Prepare plans, resources etc in their own time.
They are paid almost minimum wage, unpaid holidays, crappy buildings

It sounds like a few coveted Christmas presents are the least of their (the staff) worries in that particular workplace. Plus, the staff may want to have a look at their entitlements to leave from work: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/annual_leave_public_holidays.html

weirdspider

nice_guy80 wrote: »

My wife works in a creche. She enjoys working with the kids

Basically the boss/owner treats the staff like crap.
The staff do all the work.
Go to courses on their own time.
Prepare plans, resources etc in their own time.
They are paid almost minimum wage, unpaid holidays, crappy buildings, no photocopier

Anyway the parents of toddlers, preschoolers and after-schoolers dropped in a load of presents to the office in the last week for the STAFF who look after all the kids - wine, chocolates, biscuits, toiletry sets and the usual crappy 'teacher' presents.

The boss and her daughter went through all the presents and brought all the decent stuff home with her.
She left the stuff that had the girls' names and cards sellotaped to them.

I've NEVER heard of someone being so mean and stingy

My boss kept the xmas presents too. I don't really mind to be honest, at the end of the day she is the reason I can afford to buy food for myself so does not bother me one bit.

Widdershins

Can I just butt in to ask about the significance of wage slips, as someone asked if the creche ladies are getting them? I don't get wage slips..

Cupcake_Crisis

I'd be looking for a new job tbh.

That said, I didn't get as much as a merry Christmas out of my boss this year so..... swings and roundabouts.

mansize

Widdershins wrote: »

Can I just butt in to ask about the significance of wage slips, as someone asked if the creche ladies are getting them? I don't get wage slips..

Its a legal requirement.

topmanamillion

OP if the working conditions are as terrible as you say (I'm not doubting you BTW) then she should start looking for a new job.
Forget about arguing the toss about Xmas presents. Its small fry when there isn't basic equipment needed to do the job.

Widdershins

mansize wrote: »

Its a legal requirement.

P60 has all the same info. I asked for and got the required number of slips when applying for a loan once but ordinarily don't get any.

Sorry for interrupting thread.