Pieta House reject fundraising money from hunt

lazybones32

Discodog wrote: »

I am not a townie & I never have been but the facts, backed up by extensive research, show that foxes don't kill for sport. They will kill all the hens but they return to collect each one & bury it to eat later.

We always had the scientific teams come out and log the foxes who killed lambs to drink some of their blood...only some of their blood, mind. Never came back to bury the body...only to drink more blood, from other lambs and sheep. But hey, I must be imagining this stuff.

Widdershins wrote: »

There's direct and indirect harm and the hunt are responsible for direct harm, clearly Pieta can't be expected to scrutinise every donor's practises, but there's no scrutiny required when it comes to the hunt, whose sole purpose is to hunt.

So are you one of these 'liberals' who doesn't criticise or feel there should be punishment for child abuse as well?

If a fox hunter is open about sexually or physically abusing children that's okay. That's exactly the point I wanted to convey. Thank you for introducing such a retarded comparison to make your point and discredit what I wrote. If you have anymore mental diarrhea, please, don't share it with me.

newacc2015

If SF get elected, are Pieta House going to refuse funding from the Government as of their 'past' links to a certain terrorist organization?

CaptainInsano

newacc2015 wrote: »

If SF get elected, are Pieta House going to refuse funding from the Government as of their 'past' links to a certain terrorist organization?

Yeah and if Adolf Hitler gets regenerated, will they refuse the Nazi's donations? Double standards eh .

PucaMama

lazybones32 wrote: »

We always had the scientific teams come out and log the foxes who killed lambs to drink some of their blood...only some of their blood, mind. Never came back to bury the body...only to drink more blood, from other lambs and sheep. But hey, I must be imagining this stuff.



If a fox hunter is open about sexually or physically abusing children that's okay. That's exactly the point I wanted to convey. Thank you for introducing such a retarded comparison to make your point and discredit what I wrote. If you have anymore mental diarrhea, please, don't share it with me.

Drink their blood? They are foxes not vampires

PucaMama

lazybones32 wrote: »

And of course, Mr. Fox never kills for sport or according to nature...Townies and their rose-tinted view of nature.

A lazy argument. You can't compare a fox killing to survive (nature) or killing any prey animal it finds (sport for foxes?) to humans sitting on horses letting dogs chew it up.

And the "townie" bit is even lazier.

Widdershins

Often loose dogs will savage livestock and the fox gets the blame.

gctest50

Just trap them ?

Widdershins

gctest50 wrote: »

Just trap them ?

Although not by that method, which is interesting, we've done so a few times, to keep them away from chickens. And the same for mink and pine marten. Our dog does the job now.

gctest50

Widdershins wrote: »

Although not by that method, which is interesting, we've done so a few times, to keep them away from chickens. And the same for mink and pine marten. Our dog does the job now.

If you trap them you could stuff them and sell them

Subcomandante Marcos

learn_more wrote: »

I would still ban fox hunting. For the specific reason that people get enjoyment out of it.

Probably the stupidest argument against fox hunting.

I enjoy shooting boar, boar are pests who destroy crops and need to be culled because their population is unsustainable and they have no natural predators besides humans in Spain.

Should boar hunting be banned too?

Widdershins

gctest50 wrote: »

If you trap them you could stuff them and sell them

Er yeah. Ok.

gctest50

Discodog wrote: »

The story that "has more holes in it than a Swiss cheese"

Estimated 10,000 foxes in London & one so called attack :rolleyes:

The issue is whether a charity can decide who's money they want to take & they can. They will get far more in as a result in the long term.

Here's one found in a bedroom :

g

CaptainInsano

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Probably the stupidest argument against fox hunting.

I enjoy shooting boar, boar are pests who destroy crops and need to be culled because their population is unsustainable and they have no natural predators besides humans in Spain.

Should boar hunting be banned too?

There's always this argument that its hunting pests. Be honest, is it the killing that you enjoy? Genuinely curious.

Subcomandante Marcos

CaptainInsano wrote: »

There's always this argument that its hunting pests. Be honest, is it the killing that you enjoy? Genuinely curious.

Well it is killing pests, there's no argument to be had. It's also population control and it's for the table. I enjoy knowing the boar sausage, cutlets, roasts, etc were all killed and butchered by me or my father/cousin/uncle/grand father. I enjoy knowing that a problem was dealt with humanely with a swift dispatch. I enjoy knowing my family's income is protected and their crops won't be destroyed.


Killing for "fun" isn't the problem. Fox hunts are not just killing for fun, they are barbaric.

Lots of foxes do need to be killed every year, saying otherwise betrays ignorance, but they don't need to be killed by dozens of dogs ripping them apart while toffs on horseback watch. One man with a .22 can dispatch them quickly and humanely.

CaptainInsano

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Well it is killing pests, there's no argument to be had. It's also population control and it's for the table. I enjoy knowing the boar sausage, cutlets, roasts, etc were all killed and butchered by me or my father/cousin/uncle/grand father. I enjoy knowing that a problem was dealt with humanely with a swift dispatch. I enjoy knowing my family's income is protected and their crops won't be destroyed.


Killing for "fun" isn't the problem. Fox hunts are not just killing for fun, they are barbaric.

Lots of foxes do need to be killed every year, saying otherwise betrays ignorance, but they don't need to be killed by dozens of dogs ripping them apart while toffs on horseback watch. One man with a .22 can dispatch them quickly and humanely.

Well yeah once food etc is involved it's a different kettle of fish. I would have much more respect for that kind of hunting than people buying industrially produced meat that would faint at the sight of a pig being killed.

The hunt as you say is unjustifiable and I would take issue with anyone who hunts for the sake of it, trophy hunters and the like. I took it to mean that the poster was challenging previous posters who talked of the necessity of the hunt for pest control. Even though it's the most roundabout way of killing something. It's like saying the bull fights in Spain are needed for beef production.

patmac

They should change their name to PETA house.

goz83

PucaMama wrote: »

Killing to protect livestock is not killing for fun once it's quick and painless I.e not running it into the ground with a pack of dogs and letting them tear it up.

Why would the charity need to ask your background if you present as a group of hunters?

Maybe you've genuinely missed my point, so I will put it another way. PH have refused to accept a donation they seemingly had previously agreed to. The person in charge has decided they don't want money from an organisation involved in bloodsports and they handled it badly. As a body who are funded by the government (the tax payer) I don't think they shoukd be allowed to refuse funding, which is gained by legal means, regardless of the opinion of the person(s) in charge.

For the record, I don't actually agree with the hunt, but I do agree with humane culling for pest control purposes and population control. I have also never killed a fox, or seen one be killed.

CaptainInsano wrote: »

Really strange to hear the hunt being excused as pest control. What an unnecessary roundabout and largely ineffective way killing foxes if that's the case. For once I'd just like to see someone admit that they enjoy killing the fox in this manner for pleasure, but I guess they know themselves it's messed up.

If you are by any chance referring to my earlier pest control post, then you have misread and misunderstood it. But you might be talking about another poster, in which case, I have nothing to add.

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Killing for "fun" isn't the problem. Fox hunts are not just killing for fun, they are barbaric.

Lots of foxes do need to be killed every year, saying otherwise betrays ignorance, but they don't need to be killed by dozens of dogs ripping them apart while toffs on horseback watch. One man with a .22 can dispatch them quickly and humanely.

THIS

But I would probably use a larger calibre rifle, just to be sure of a quick, humane kill if I were hunting a fox.

The flying mouse

newacc2015 wrote: »

If SF get elected, are Pieta House going to refuse funding from the Government as of their 'past' links to a certain terrorist organization?

If your going to go by that yardstick they wouldn't take funding from any Government since the state was founded, except maybe the greens.

Discodog

lazybones32 wrote: »

We always had the scientific teams come out and log the foxes who killed lambs to drink some of their blood...only some of their blood, mind. Never came back to bury the body...only to drink more blood, from other lambs and sheep. But hey, I must be imagining this stuff.

If a fox hunter is open about sexually or physically abusing children that's okay. That's exactly the point I wanted to convey. Thank you for introducing such a retarded comparison to make your point and discredit what I wrote. If you have anymore mental diarrhea, please, don't share it with me.

I would love to read the research, can you quote it ?

I have lots of friends & neighbours that are farmers & we have plenty of foxes. None want the hunt & none shoot foxes. You portray the fox as a vampire, as having some evil blood lust. Wild animals don't think like humans but we refer to the fox as cunning etc.

Many farmers accept that wildlife is an essential part of the ecosystem. A few & it's getting less, see it as their right to kill anything on their land. They invented the word "vermin" which basically means I will kill what I want. They are worse than any wild animal.

Discodog

gctest50 wrote: »

Here's one found in a bedroom :

g

Err actually there isn't :pac:

But if there were a fox in a bedroom why would that be wrong ? There could just as easily be a neighbour's cat in the bedroom if the occupants were stupid enough to leave their house open & unattended - might be a burglar too :eek:

Widdershins

People who get 'sport' front running down an animal and having it torn to pieces are sadists f the worst kind. They shuld be psychologically evaluated before being allowed to have children. Torture of animals is a sign of serious mental depravity. In no other situation would it be accepted as an actual pastime.

The fact that two people Thanked a post saying it's ok if child abusers are open about it, says it all.

lazybones32

Discodog wrote: »

I would love to read the research, can you quote it ?

I have lots of friends & neighbours that are farmers & we have plenty of foxes. None want the hunt & none shoot foxes. You portray the fox as a vampire, as having some evil blood lust. Wild animals don't think like humans but we refer to the fox as cunning etc.

Many farmers accept that wildlife is an essential part of the ecosystem. A few & it's getting less, see it as their right to kill anything on their land. They invented the word "vermin" which basically means I will kill what I want. They are worse than any wild animal.

Sarcasm is lost on you....you are the one saying you have lots of facts, backed up by extensive research, that foxes don't kill for sport. I wrote that "We always had the scientific teams come out <--- that's the sarcasm...right there! and log the foxes who killed lambs to drink some of their blood" - how was that not picked up by you? Do you really think a team gets sent out to a farm every time a lamb is killed by a fox? Or is asking for data your trump card in trying to win an argument against someone with actual experience versus your 'theoretical' knowledge and your familiarity with people who've never had it happen to them?
How about biting the heads off all the hens and taking none of the bodies? Explain that one to me...

As for your 2nd para, spare me your soapboxing.
.

lazybones32

PucaMama wrote: »

Drink their blood? They are foxes not vampires

Are you serious or joking? I really hope this is a joke...please, tell me this is a joke.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

Widdershins wrote: »

People who get 'sport' front running down an animal and having it torn to pieces are sadists f the worst kind. They shuld be psychologically evaluated before being allowed to have children. Torture of animals is a sign of serious mental depravity. In no other situation would it be accepted as an actual pastime.

The fact that two people Thanked a post saying it's ok if child abusers are open about it, says it all.

To introduce a child to Fox hunting is child abuse.
Fox hunting is the same as badger baiting, a cruelty to animals.

lazybones32

Who here ate Turkey yesterday? Just out of curiosity...

Discodog

lazybones32 wrote: »

Who here ate Turkey yesterday? Just out of curiosity...

Now you are being lazy. You rolled out the old townie stereotype & now it's the vegetarian one. If we let a pack of dogs tear the turkeys to pieces, for recreational pleasure, no one would eat turkey.

As for scientific research, just google surplus killing. It's instinctive. When a fox gets into a chicken coop it is faced with an unnatural situation, if it kills one chicken, the others can't escape where as in the wild, if the fox killed a pheasant, the others would fly off. This situation enables the fox to kill more than it needs and at first glance, the fox has killed all yet only takes one away. However left undisturbed the fox will return for all the birds to cache them for a day when food could be in short supply. A successful predator will always take advantage of a food supply even when it is not hungry. A well fed cat will still stalk and kill birds.

For the fox in the chicken coop, it is no different to us in the supermarket. We purchase a weeks shopping that we could never eat all in one sitting, so we store it in our cupboards, fridge and freezer. The fox will bury each carcass and return to this larder when next hungry.

You never see this because you intervene & the fox knows that there is danger nearby. I have fed foxes more than they can eat. They will take away & hide, what they can carry & then return for the rest. Plenty of people have filmed them doing this.

TanFlash

Shocking that they would refuse money from a sporting organisation

lazybones32

Discodog wrote: »

Now you are being lazy. You rolled out the old townie stereotype & now it's the vegetarian one. If we let a pack of dogs tear the turkeys to pieces for recreational pleasure, no one would eat turkey.

I have to communicate at the level of my audience, so it's simplified not lazy. But you couldn't even answer a basic question without going off on a tangent about dogs tearing turkeys to pieces, yet saying foxes - another canine - wouldn't do so, so I think I'll have to simplify further.

CaptainInsano

lazybones32 wrote: »

I have to communicate at the level of my audience, so it's simplified not lazy. But you couldn't even answer a basic question without going off on a tangent about dogs tearing turkeys to pieces, yet saying foxes - another canine - wouldn't do so, so I think I'll have to simplify further.

So you eat the foxes you kill?

TanFlash

Animals kill animals, period

CaptainInsano

TanFlash wrote: »

Animals kill animals, period

Animals kill animals, cnuts kill animals for the sake of killing.

Discodog

TanFlash wrote: »

Shocking that they would refuse money from a sporting organisation

Sport - An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

A pack of hounds & riders on horseback versus one fox. Would you watch football if it were 11 versus 1 ? On & where the 1 gets torn to shreds ?

Digging fox cubs out of then den & throwing them to the hounds....a Sport ?

TanFlash

We're all organic, we're all worm feed , the cycle of life. Bastard foxes

Discodog

lazybones32 wrote: »

I have to communicate at the level of my audience, so it's simplified not lazy. But you couldn't even answer a basic question without going off on a tangent about dogs tearing turkeys to pieces, yet saying foxes - another canine - wouldn't do so, so I think I'll have to simplify further.

You were so keen to criticise me that you missed the edit. :pac:

Depp

foggy_lad wrote: »

Because the charity deals primarily with young people I think it was the right decision as many of the young people will be against hunting and knowing or finding out that the service they rest so much confidence in may be funded by hunting would be a betrayal of sorts.

I wonder how will their confidence be helped when pieta house tell them they cant help due to insufficient funding?

really think its terrible form for such a charity to turn down a donation regardless of the source. the euros they think theyre better than could have gone a long way to help those in need.

Widdershins

Ember Scarce Mind wrote: »

To introduce a child to Fox hunting is child abuse.
Fox hunting is the same as badger baiting, a cruelty to animals.

Of course it is abuse. It's utterly perverted. The fact that such abnormal people derive enjoyment from that behaviour raises serious questions about their mentality.

I'm not sure I *could* lower myself to that level in order to get through to them.

Discodog

Depp wrote: »

I wonder how will their confidence be helped when pieta house tell them they cant help due to insufficient funding?

really think its terrible form for such a charity to turn down a donation regardless of the source. the euros they think theyre better than could have gone a long way to help those in need.

The problem is that other donors may well be put off if they associate the charity as supporting hunting. I think that this decision will increase their donations not reduce them.

It's not unknown for organisations that donate to "boast" about it & suggest that the recipient supports them. The Greyhound Board boast about the money that they donate to Greyhound welfare. They forget to mention that they are the cause of thousands of dogs being killed every year. In reality they donate a pittance & impose conditions on the recipients.

Depp

Widdershins wrote: »

Of course it is abuse. It's utterly perverted. The fact that such abnormal people derive enjoyment from that behaviour raises serious questions about their mentality.

I'm not sure I *could* lower myself to that level in order to get through to them.

while i dont participate to say that anyone who goes on these is some form of depraved individual baying for blood is highly disingenuous, from knowing a good few who do take part the real attraction of the hunt is the day out on the horse and the hunt ball after, while there may be a sadist or two in the bunch its pretty ignorant to say thats all its about. also important to note the importance of long standing traditions to people which is what this is.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Very cruel "sport" but would be foolish of the charity to cut their nose off to spite their face

Depp

Discodog wrote: »

The problem is that other donors may well be put off if they associate the charity as supporting hunting. I think that this decision will increase their donations not reduce them.

I agree this will be of benefit to their coffers overall, but only because the story got in the news. If you're only donating to a charity because you like its ''image'' over the work it does you might aswel hold on to your money..

Widdershins

Depp wrote: »

while i dont participate to say that anyone who goes on these is some form of depraved individual baying for blood is highly disingenuous, from knowing a good few who do take part the real attraction of the hunt is the day out on the horse and the hunt ball after, while there may be a sadist or two in the bunch its pretty ignorant to say thats all its about. also important to note the importance of long standing traditions to people which is what this is.

Pfft. Any evidence that the sadists are in the minority? And is it better to be unmoved by being in the company of the sadists and participating in the vile antics they enjoy, and to be one of the uncaring here for the beer crowd? Seems equally socipathic. I'm being entirely genuine. They should all be psychologically assessed because there is nothing normal about any of it.

Stoning women for adultery is some peoples idea of a tradition and is no less heinous, why is that condemned when the hunt crowd are excused for their s called tradition?

Dannyriver

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Very cruel "sport" but would be foolish of the charity to cut their nose off to spite their face

They will earn respect and also a lot of publicity in the long run more money. It s an admirable stance that reinforces their credentials as a bonefide charity.

Depp

Widdershins wrote: »

Pfft. Any evidence that the sadists are in the minority? And is it better to be unmoved by being in the company of the sadists and participating in the vile antics they enjoy, and to be one of the uncaring here for the beer crowd? Seems equally socipathic. I'm being entirely genuine. They should all be psychologically assessed because there is nothing normal about any of it.

Stoning women for adultery is some peoples idea of a tradition and is no less heinous, why is that condemned when the hunt crowd are excused for their s called tradition?

Any evidence they aren't? analyze it how you will but for most thats all it is, a day taking your horse through the challenge of difficult terrain and a big piss up afterwards. Is it for me? nah, but who am I to criticize how someone lets of steam when it doesnt affect me directly?

also, on an unrelated note but out of interest do pieta publish board salaries anywhere?

Widdershins

Depp wrote: »

Any evidence they aren't? analyze it how you will but for most thats all it is, a day taking your horse through the challenge of difficult terrain and a big piss up afterwards. Is it for me? nah, but who am I to criticize how someone lets of steam when it doesnt affect me directly?

Educated guess. Plenty of other ways to do the above without the fox.
I don't share your attitude that nothing that doesn't affect you is your business or of interest/concern. If everyone did the world would be ****ed. But as long as you're alright.

Dannyriver

Depp wrote: »

Any evidence they aren't? analyze it how you will but for most thats all it is, a day taking your horse through the challenge of difficult terrain and a big piss up afterwards. Is it for me? nah, but who am I to criticize how someone lets of steam when it doesnt affect me directly?

also, on an unrelated note but out of interest do pieta publish board salaries anywhere?

Not sure about the board but I do know that Joan freeman the CEO awarded all her income [66000] from being appointed senator to the organistion if that helps your suspicions.

Depp

Widdershins wrote: »

Educated guess. Plenty of other ways to do the above without the fox.
I don't share your attitude that nothing that doesn't affect you is your business or of interest/concern. If everyone did the world would be ****ed. But as long as you're alright.

do you know anyone who takes part? easy to say they're all savages from the outside looking in, dangerous perspective to have, imagine if someone of actual importance decided psychological screening was necessary before ''allowing'' them to have kids? at the end of the day its only a fox, the reality of the matter is they're a pest, they may look cute and all but for anyone with small animals theyre a massive nuisance.

Depp

Dannyriver wrote: »

Not sure about the board but I do know that Joan freeman the CEO awarded all her income [66000] from being appointed senator to the organistion if that helps your suspicions.

nice to see they're not like the rest so, hopefully you can pardon my suspicions given some of the ''charities'' we tend to have here!

anewme

Depp wrote: »

at the end of the day its only a fox, the reality of the matter is they're a pest,

It's "only" a fox?

That's a pathetic excuse for justifying cruelty.

Ave Sodalis

Ember Scarce Mind wrote:

To introduce a child to Fox hunting is child abuse. Fox hunting is the same as badger baiting, a cruelty to animals.

Hunt followers generally have nothing to do with the actual hunt.
Has anyone come up with proof that this was an actual hunt? Considering their ads for the event are saying it's no jumping and that they are encouraging walkers along too, I'm strongly having my doubts that this was a fox hunt.

Also, I wonder what changed as Pieta has taken funds raised from hunts before...

Depp

anewme wrote: »

It's "only" a fox?

That's a pathetic excuse for justifying cruelty.

are you outraged when a fox is killed by a farmers shotgun? or the front bumper of a car? or when one is savaged by a badger? or when a fox itself gets in and savages a coup of chickens or a childs pet dog?

theres more to foxes than the ''cute little doggies'' you see on nature programmes