Pieta House reject fundraising money from hunt

CaptainInsano

Depp wrote: »

are you outraged when a fox is killed by a farmers shotgun? or the front bumper of a car? or when one is savaged by a badger?

How do fail to see how those situations in no way equate to being savaged by dogs for amusement? It's not the animal in question, it's the method.

Depp

CaptainInsano wrote: »

How do fail to see how those situations in no way equate to being savaged by dogs for amusement? It's not the animal in question, it's the method.

obviously its different, but for the vast majority of participants in a hunt the ''amusement'' is the day spent on the horse, shown by the massive rise in ''foxless hunts'' that are beginning to become commonplace

Widdershins

Depp wrote: »

do you know anyone who takes part? easy to say they're all savages from the outside looking in, dangerous perspective to have, imagine if someone of actual importance decided psychological screening was necessary before ''allowing'' them to have kids? at the end of the day its only a fox, the reality of the matter is they're a pest, they may look cute and all but for anyone with small animals theyre a massive nuisance.

Yes I do, and your absence of empathy makes it pointless to continue to explain the problem.

If someone of importance decided to implement screening they wouldn't pass and wouldn't be allowed to be in charge of vulnerable minors. That's the point.

PucaMama

lazybones32 wrote: »

Are you serious or joking? I really hope this is a joke...please, tell me this is a joke.

Are you seriously suggesting foxes drink blood? Seriously? Drink blood?

PucaMama

Depp wrote: »

are you outraged when a fox is killed by a farmers shotgun? or the front bumper of a car? or when one is savaged by a badger? or when a fox itself gets in and savages a coup of chickens or a childs pet dog?

theres more to foxes than the ''cute little doggies'' you see on nature programmes

How many times over and over again do people need the wrongs of foxhunting on horseback with a pack of dogs vs shooting them dead instantly. Are people genuinely thick or is it deliberate.

Depp

Widdershins wrote: »

Yes I do, and your absence of empathy makes it pointless to continue to explain the problem.

If someone of importance decided to implement screening they wouldn't pass and wouldn't be allowed to be in charge of vulnerable minors. That's the point.

you might actually enjoy a hunt, given how much you seem to enjoy the view from your high horse!

the arrogance to suggest what you're actually suggesting is baffling

Widdershins

Depp wrote: »

you might actually enjoy a hunt, given how much you seem to enjoy the view from your high horse!

the arrogance to suggest what you're actually suggesting is baffling

That's disgusting. I don't go in for torturing living things. How dare you.

Animal torture is a known behaviour of psychopaths. Fact. Not arrogance. Dress it up how you like-the hunt torture animals and their entourage, even if they don't ride, or own a dog, are supporting that torture and are almost as bad. But its the hunt themselves I critcised, you brought the groupies up.

garv123

So I hunt deer, pheasants, ducks and rabbits... All goes into the oven or to family or friends to eat.. There is nothing cruel about it, of no suffering

I also shoot foxes and grey crows for local sheep & chicken farmers..(anyone who dont think they do serious damage needs to wake up)
Unfortunately fox and crow Strew isnt the nicest!

Would Pieta house reject money off me if I informed them about this before making a donation?

PucaMama

garv123 wrote: »

So I hunt deer, pheasants, ducks and rabbits... All goes into the oven or to family or friends to eat.. There is nothing cruel about it, of no suffering

I also shoot foxes and grey crows for local sheep & chicken farmers..(anyone who dont think they do serious damage needs to wake up)
Unfortunately fox and crow Strew isnt the nicest!

Would Pieta house reject money off me if I informed them about this before making a donation?

Was under the impression that meat from a meat eating animal isn't the nicest. But id be curious about the crow.

Discodog

PucaMama wrote: »

Was under the impression that meat from a meat eating animal isn't the nicest. But id be curious about the crow.

Rook Pie is a well known Yorkshire dish in England

gctest50

PucaMama wrote: »

Was under the impression that meat from a meat eating animal isn't the nicest. But id be curious about the crow.

Clever things them, reasoning about the same as a six year old kid :

1eg0a3xv7b82of

garv123 wrote: »

So I hunt deer, pheasants, ducks and rabbits... All goes into the oven or to family or friends to eat.. There is nothing cruel about it, of no suffering

I also shoot foxes and grey crows for local sheep & chicken farmers..(anyone who dont think they do serious damage needs to wake up)
Unfortunately fox and crow Strew isnt the nicest!

Would Pieta house reject money off me if I informed them about this before making a donation?

You should replace hunt deer with shoot deer, let's keep it real.

garv123

Ember Scarce Mind wrote: »

You should replace hunt deer with shoot deer, let's keep it real.

And you know my methods of HUNTING? I doubt it.

PucaMama

garv123 wrote: »

And you know my methods of HUNTING? I doubt it.

How else would you get them

CaptainInsano

garv123 wrote: »

Would Pieta house reject money off me if I informed them about this before making a donation?

No. For the simple reason that you do not cause them prolonged and undue terror and suffering for your own entertainment. Very simple to understand if only you try.

garv123

PucaMama wrote: »

How else would you get them

Its implying that I just sit and wait in a high seat for a deer to pop out and then just shoot it.

when in reality it involves a lot of walking, crawling and coming home empty handed.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

garv123 wrote: »

And you know my methods of HUNTING? I doubt it.

I know plenty of deer hunters. They never fail to get a kill. They then break the animal down leaving parts they can't sell or eat after them in the woods
If your method differs I would love to hear it but as i stated to you before lets keep it real

learn_more

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Probably the stupidest argument against fox hunting.

I enjoy shooting boar, boar are pests who destroy crops and need to be culled because their population is unsustainable and they have no natural predators besides humans in Spain.

Should boar hunting be banned too?

Oh I never claimed the reason I would ban it was logical. I just meant I get off on stopping people like you getting off on killing animals for fun.

It's kinda just like some testosterone fuelled feeling I have.

Ember Scarce Mind

Ember Scarce Mind wrote: »

I know plenty of deer hunters. They never fail to get a kill. They then break the animal down leaving parts they can't sell or eat after them in the woods
If your method differs I would love to hear it but as i stated to you before lets keep it real

But the deer can move after being shot, and they have to track it and finish it off, which can be a pretty long period of trauma.

Which is not to say I'm that bothered - as long as it's shot within the terms of the licence given to a hunter - just to say it's not always one clean shot.

And even more so in the case of hunting foxes at night when they can get away, injured, and left to die. I get the whole premise that it's not sport based, but in the case of foxes raiding chicken coops raising a few eggs for the owners it's hardly a necessity either.

learn_more

Deleted User wrote: »

And even more so in the case of hunting foxes at night when they can get away, injured, and left to die. I get the whole premise that it's not sport based, but in the case of foxes raiding chicken coops raising a few eggs for the owners it's hardly a necessity either.

Fox hunting is the perfect prey for a hunter. A very small defenceless animal.

And the perfect exceuse; it kills....wait for it....chickens.

I give you a fox and chicken, side by side. Which one would you rather save?

The one you want to shove in the oven with a brain the size of pea or a beautiful fox.

Depp

learn_more wrote: »

Fox hunting is the perfect prey for a hunter. A very small defenceless animal.

And the perfect exceuse; it kills....wait for it....chickens.

I give you a fox and chicken, side by side. Which one would you rather save?

The one you want to shove in the oven with a brain the size of pea or a beautiful fox.

so foxes destroying livestock is a bad argument, because foxes look cuter than chickens?

Amalgam

humberklog wrote: »

I think it's silly not to take the money because someone in the organisation has an issue with hunting.

I understand the need to cull foxes in an agricultural setting.

Shoot the foxes if you have to, but don't hunt them.

darkpagandeath

gctest50 wrote: »

Clever things them, reasoning about the same as a six year old kid :

Trained crow... Miss the leg tags ? You can teach many animals many things. Does not mean the same wild version will naturally display the same problem solving. They trained pigeons to act as a guidance system in bombs.

Ember Scarce Mind

Ember Scarce Mind wrote: »

To introduce a child to Fox hunting is child abuse.
Fox hunting is the same as badger baiting, a cruelty to animals.

to equate child abuse to whatever you dislike that isnt child abuse is child abuse.

embarrassed for you.

darkpagandeath

Deleted User wrote: »

to equate child abuse to whatever you dislike that isnt child abuse is child abuse.

embarrassed for you.

Pesky humans and being hunter gatherers... Plenty of hunting happening in Africa for example to live. Damn child abusers..... :rolleyes:

Discodog

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Trained crow... Miss the leg tags ? You can teach many animals many things. Does not mean the same wild version will naturally display the same problem solving. They trained pigeons to act as a guidance system in bombs.

I have seen the same thing with wild corvids. You can actually make puzzles for them to solve. A good one is an upright piece of pipe where they have to pull out pegs to make the food drop to the bottom.

But even more amazing is their ability to recognise faces.

http://www.cracked.com/article_19042_6-terrifying-ways-crows-are-way-smarter-than-you-think.html

The sad thing is that we use the vermin label to justify anything. The Corvids get a very raw deal. The use of Larsen taps for Magpies is obviously cruel & wouldn't be allowed with other species.

Ember Scarce Mind

Ember Scarce Mind wrote: »

To introduce a child to Fox hunting is child abuse.
Fox hunting is the same as badger baiting, a cruelty to animals.

Just saw this now...and it's batsh**.

It suggests that hunting is equivocal with the physical or sexual abuse of a child.

It isn't, and to even think that it is grotesque. I don't like to see an animal tortured or abused...but it is nothing like the torture and abuse of a child.

darkpagandeath

Deleted User wrote: »

Just saw this now...and it's batsh**.

It suggests that hunting is equivocal with the physical or sexual abuse of a child.

It isn't, and to even think that it is grotesque. I don't like to see an animal tortured or abused...but it is nothing like the torture and abuse of a child.

It's a first world snowflake view. Kids in some countries have to hunt and kill their own food to survive and feed the family. Nothing wrong with the activity its natural, we have stopped doing it in the first world that's all.

Discodog

Deleted User wrote: »

Just saw this now...and it's batsh**.

It suggests that hunting is equivocal with the physical or sexual abuse of a child.

It isn't, and to even think that it is grotesque. I don't like to see an animal tortured or abused...but it is nothing like the torture and abuse of a child.

It's nothing like in terms of the law but there are similarities. To do either you have to have a very low or non existent empathy for the victim. You have to be willing to watch the consequences of their suffering or put that part out of your mind.

Child abusers often believe that they are doing no harm & in some cases that the victims like it. A lot of hunters chasing a fox believe that the fox enjoys the chase.

darkpagandeath

darkpagandeath wrote: »

It's a first world snowflake view. Kids in some countries have to hunt and kill their own food to survive and feed the family. Nothing wrong with the activity its natural, we have stopped doing it in the first world that's all.

It's just such a nasty equivocation, to invoke something as appalling as child abuse to condemn something as unappealing as blood sports. It trivialises the former.

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

It's nothing like in terms of the law but there are similarities. To do either you have to have a very low or non existent empathy for the victim. You have to be willing to watch the consequences of their suffering or put that part out of your mind.

Child abusers often believe that they are doing no harm & in some cases that the victims like it. A lot of hunters chasing a fox believe that the fox enjoys the chase.

To equivocate the two says far more about those who make the comparison.

They think so lightly of the rape of a child, why it's no more than shooting a rabbit.

pauliebdub

They should never have agreed to accept the money in the first place, they should have clear ethical guidelines about who should fundraise on their behalf.

I've often donated money to Pieta House through work but must find out a bit more about them. They seem to be excellent fundraisers and run a slick marketing and PR campaign but I don't know where the money actually goes.

darkpagandeath

Deleted User wrote: »

To equivocate the two says far more about those who make the comparison.

They think so lightly of the rape of a child, why it's no more than shooting a rabbit.

Remember you would be dealing with the same clowns that were at that carnival with dogs and doing stuff to the dogs on FB. And the same clowns that put an invasive species into Dublin bay. Thank fook they were fresh water lobsters.. And died.

Widdershins

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Pesky humans and being hunter gatherers... Plenty of hunting happening in Africa for example to live. Damn child abusers..... :rolleyes:

Keywords : ''To Live''.
Not ''for kicks''.

Discodog

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Remember you would be dealing with the same clowns that were at that carnival with dogs and doing stuff to the dogs on FB. And the same clowns that put an invasive species into Dublin bay. Thank fook they were fresh water lobsters.. And died.

Same old response. Anyone who opposes animal cruelty is a clown :rolleyes:

darkpagandeath

Discodog wrote: »

Same old response. Anyone who opposes animal cruelty is a clown :rolleyes:

They did not seem to mind keeping dogs in captivity... I had a real laugh at the hard man that got battered by the Easter European woman. Some bloody nose she gave him. Remember they tried to set the place on fire. Very safe for the animals..

Widdershins

Deleted User wrote: »

To equivocate the two says far more about those who make the comparison.

They think so lightly of the rape of a child, why it's no more than shooting a rabbit.

They never said anything about the rape of a child. That I noticed.

It's psychological or emotional abuse, not physical.

The original comment:
To introduce a child to Fox hunting is child abuse.
Fox hunting is the same as badger baiting, a cruelty to animals.
Your reply:
Just saw this now...and it's batsh**.

It suggests that hunting is equivocal with the physical or sexual abuse of a child.

It isn't, and to even think that it is grotesque. I don't like to see an animal tortured or abused...but it is nothing like the torture and abuse of a child.

Jen Pigs Fly

16 pages ...don't know if this was asked .... but maybe it was drag hunting? Didn't state what type? If drag hunting then it's ok because they're following a pre laid scent set by a person and no animals get harmed or killed ....

darkpagandeath

Widdershins wrote: »

Keywords : ''To Live''.
Not ''for kicks''.

Link ? they still hunt the foxes to control the population just like badgers And deer. I could go on.

Widdershins

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Link ? they still hunt the foxes to control the population just like badgers And deer. I could go on.

I quoted a post saying hunting in africa ''to live''.

Discodog

Deleted User wrote: »

To equivocate the two says far more about those who make the comparison.

They think so lightly of the rape of a child, why it's no more than shooting a rabbit.

Well there have been studies suggesting a clear correlation that those who inflict suffering on animals may go on to do the same to humans. It does make sense because to do the former requires a lack of empathy & feeling. It's also common for such people to seek an escalation.

To suggest that any linking of the two belittles child abuse is wrong. How about the tradition of cutting off the fox's tail & rubbing the blood on the cheeks of a child on their first hunt ? That sounds abusive to me.

Widdershins

Widdershins wrote: »

They never said anything about the rape of a child. That I noticed.

It's psychological or emotional abuse, not physical.

It's still not remotely the same.

Do people think so lightly about the life of a child that they equivocate it to that of an animal? They place abuse of the latter in the same bracket as child abuse? That's...grotesque and suggest a basic lack of empathy with humans. Or for those who love invoking psychology to explain hunting..."sociopathy", which incorporates the belief that human life is no better than that of animals...

darkpagandeath

Widdershins wrote: »

I quoted a post saying hunting in africa ''to live''.

Yes and then "for kicks" link please.

darkpagandeath

Discodog wrote: »

Well there have been studies suggesting a clear correlation that those who inflict suffering on animals may go on to do the same to humans. It does make sense because to do the former requires a lack of empathy & feeling. It's also common for such people to seek an escalation.

To suggest that any linking of the two belittles child abuse is wrong. How about the tradition of cutting off the fox's tail & rubbing the blood on the cheeks of a child on their first hunt ? That sounds abusive to me.

You mean psychopaths.... Going on a hunt does not give you a mental condition. Jesus.

Widdershins

Deleted User wrote: »

It's still not remotely the same.

Do people think so lightly about the life of a child that they equivocate it to that of an animal? They place abuse of the latter in the same bracket as child abuse? That's...grotesque and suggest a basic lack of empathy with humans. Or for those who love invoking psychology to explain hunting..."sociopathy", which incorporates the belief that human life is no better than that of animals...

No Conor it's about subjecting a child to the experience of participating in a mob that goes out to hunt down and kill an animal. FOR FUN. That's not good for a child's mind. You're not looking at it from the same angle as me and I presume the other poster. But that;s not what was being said afaik.

By all means teach them to hunt if you're a family of meat eaters, and teach them to kill cleanly and humanely, with some respect. For a clear purpose i.e feeding yourselves.

darkpagandeath

Widdershins wrote: »

No Conor it's about subjecting a child to the experience of participating in a mob that goes out to hunt down and kill an animal. FOR FUN. That's not good for a child's mind. You're not looking at it from the same angle as me and I presume the other poster. But that;s not what was being said afaik.

When did you carry out this research ?

CaptainInsano

darkpagandeath wrote: »

You mean psychopaths.... Going on a hunt does not give you a mental condition. Jesus.

Maybe not, enjoying the hunt makes you of questionable character though, and intelligence.

darkpagandeath

CaptainInsano wrote: »

Maybe not, enjoying the hunt makes you of questionable character though, and intelligence.

I see has one a link to data showing this revelation ?

Widdershins

darkpagandeath wrote: »

When did you carry out this research ?

Oh my God. All I have left in me for this conversation is a face palm.

Widdershins

Widdershins wrote: »

No Conor it's about subjecting a child to the experience of participating in a mob that goes out to hunt down and kill an animal. FOR FUN. That's not good for a child's mind.l.

Oh I'd fully agree it's not good for a child. Much like giving a child a Big Mac or letting them watch Peppa Pig for hours, it's not beneficial.

What I was answering was the proposition that it's the same as child abuse, which it certainly isn't.