toddler legally allowed to use Cannabis

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lertsnim wrote: »

Can we cut the bollocks and now legalise this for everyone whose life would improve with it.

Yes , but not for the lives that would wreck it.

K.Flyer

brembo26 wrote: »

MODS:Can we have a poll?

I literally have no interest in any form of cannabis but if, like i said it 'helps someone and its controlled' i'm all for it.

Poll already carried out HERE

pragmatic1

Great news. Cannabis has neuroprotective properties. I smoked ****loads of kush, which is high in CBD, after a TBI. I hate being stoned by it helped hugely.

Billy86

Great news and hopefully it helps the little fella out, it's horrible seeing children with significant health problems.

_Kaiser_

Aaaaaand once again we have some people trying to use this story as a reason to legalise cannabis for recreational use.

As others have said, this is a different product (cannabis oil) with a very different intent (stop the poor little fella having multiple seizures per day, rather than getting high) and in the context of that, I can't see why anyone would have a problem with it.

But it's not the same as letting the "cool kids" get high. Not at all.

pragmatic1

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Aaaaaand once again we have some people trying to use this story as a reason to legalise cannabis for recreational use.

As others have said, this is a different product (cannabis oil) with a very different intent (stop the poor little fella having multiple seizures per day, rather than getting high) and in the context of that, I can't see why anyone would have a problem with it.

But it's not the same as letting the "cool kids" get high. Not at all.

What would be wrong with legalising cannabis.

HellSquirrel

It's certainly a hell of a lot more important that it's legalised for medicinal use than recreational, but it does seem frankly nuts that a drug as objectively safe as cannabis is illegal for medicinal use when far more dangerous synthetic drugs are allowed. I'm by no means an "organic = safe" advocate; -arsenic- is organic. But it appears to work, other countries are legalising it and -even- if it was legalised recreationally, it is far safer than alcohol, which is itself only the second most common drug after caffeine.

It is a very odd social prohibition that we've created against it.

On the flipside, and this is purely from the recreational point of view, it can have effects on people with odd brain chemistry, increasing paranoia and other mental fixiations. It may not be a good idea to legalise something that can have that effect (at least until we know why and if there's a way to mitigate that) and then there's the issue of people abusing it more easily - smoking and driving for instance. We do have both those issues with alcohol already.

But all that aside, as it is a rather different subject, it absolutely should be legalised for medicinal use.

pragmatic1

HellSquirrel wrote: »

It's certainly a hell of a lot more important that it's legalised for medicinal use than recreational, but it does seem frankly nuts that a drug as objectively safe as cannabis is illegal for medicinal use when far more dangerous synthetic drugs are allowed. I'm by no means an "organic = safe" advocate; -arsenic- is organic. But it appears to work, other countries are legalising it and -even- if it was legalised recreationally, it is far safer than alcohol, which is itself only the second most common drug after caffeine.

It is a very odd social prohibition that we've created against it.

On the flipside, and this is purely from the recreational point of view, it can have effects on people with odd brain chemistry, increasing paranoia and other mental fixiations. It may not be a good idea to legalise something that can have that effect (at least until we know why and if there's a way to mitigate that) and then there's the issue of people abusing it more easily - smoking and driving for instance. We do have both those issues with alcohol already.

But all that aside, as it is a rather different subject, it absolutely should be legalised for medicinal use.

I don't care for it personally as it gives me awful paranoia but I don't see a reason for it's prohibition. There's no hangover or lasting negative effects that I'm aware of.

As for alcohol, that's right up there with heroin, crack and meth in terms of abuse to the body and addiction potential. It would never be legal if it was a new drug. It's physically worse on the body than the hardest of drugs.

So there's a hypocritical and irrational view we have when it comes to drug policy and it's done so much harm worldwide that it can't be ignored for much longer.

InTheTrees

HellSquirrel wrote: »

On the flipside, and this is purely from the recreational point of view, it can have effects on people with odd brain chemistry, increasing paranoia and other mental fixiations. It may not be a good idea to legalise something that can have that effect (at least until we know why and if there's a way to mitigate that) and then there's the issue of people abusing it more easily - smoking and driving for instance. We do have both those issues with alcohol already.

I think the whole point with recreational cannabis is that people do use it more easily. If it causes a drop in demand for alcohol then thats a good thing.

Its been fully legal here in Washington for two years now and last month California and Massachusetts voted for full recreational legalisation as well, meaning he etire west coast of the USA now is fully legal.

So there's 60-70 million people now living with FULL legalisation.

InTheTrees

pragmatic1 wrote: »

I don't care for it personally as it gives me awful paranoia but I don't see a reason for it's prohibition.

Thts probably because you've been given a strain thats high in THC and very very low in CBD, becsuse those strains generates the most obvious high and so generate the most cash for the illegal dealers.

When you buy it from a street dealer you may be getting anything from the equivalent of a glass of whiskey to a pint of shandy, you have no way of knowing, and I dont suppose many of the people in the supply chain have any idea either.

The state of the illegal market is like walking into a pub and ordering a pint of "alcohol" with no idea what youre going to get.

pragmatic1

InTheTrees wrote: »

Thts probably because you've been given a strain thats high in THC and very very low in CBD, becsuse those strains generates the most obvious high and so generate the most cash for the illegal dealers.

When you buy it from a street dealer you may be getting anything from the equivalent of a glass of whiskey to a pint of shandy, you have no way of knowing, and I dont suppose many of the people in the supply chain have any idea either.

The state of the illegal market is like walking into a pub and ordering a pint of "alcohol" with no idea what youre going to get.

I know. That's why I will only take indicas if I have to smoke. I despise sativas with a passion.

Jimoslimos

lertsnim wrote: »

Can we cut the bollocks and now legalise this for everyone whose life would improve with it.

Yep let's just forget everything we know about that so-called bollocks AKA evidence-based medicine.

TallGlass wrote: »

Imagine how effective cannabis as drug would-be if people would stop been so fúcking ignorant.

My guess, it's use as a base for other medicines. This and other drug combinations, might end some serious conditions.

No, it simply won't. At the best it may be useful in alleviating symptoms (e.g., pain relief, anti-tremor, etc). Which is good, but it isn't the magic cure-all many believe it to be.

Kareem Slimy Scabies wrote: »

My brother's epileptic seizures (he had 100+ petit mal absences a day as an infant) were brought under control for over a decade with the Ketogenic diet thanks to my incredibly committed parents. Now that he's a teenager, the diet is becoming less effective and he's started having quite severe seizures at night again. We would love to talk to somebody who knows more about the treatment in the OP and how to access it. The anti-convulsant drugs we've managed to avoid for so long are changing the happy lad I knew into a cranky, unpredictable person and only barely staving off the actual fits. It's heartbreaking.

I'm sorry if what I've highlighted sounds flippant but there's no more evidence for it than what you've claimed.

No matter what treatment (whether that is traditional anti-epileptic drugs or cannabis-based) there will generally be a trade-off between efficacy and undesirable side-effects. Cannabis as a treatment for epilepsy has been proposed for many many years but there is a dearth of evidence in properly controlled studies. If you want information tell your parents/brother to talk to your GP and consultant neurologist. Ask for a second opinion as well.

pragmatic1 wrote: »

As for alcohol, that's right up there with heroin, crack and meth in terms of abuse to the body and addiction potential. It would never be legal if it was a new drug. It's physically worse on the body than the hardest of drugs.

So there's a hypocritical and irrational view we have when it comes to drug policy and it's done so much harm worldwide that it can't be ignored for much longer.

I'd rank heroin as less physiologically damaging than alcohol as a drug (but obviously more addictive). However it's the addiction part (and also it's legal status) that results indirectly in the worst side-effects of heroin use. Drug policy isn't simply concerned with the physiological effects on the individual but rather the wider social issues surrounding drug use, which tend to be felt more acutely in lower socioeconomic areas.

Of course I would welcome studies to show whether complete prohibition is the most effective use of resources and would broadly support decriminalisation of use of all drugs. However I also am realistic and recognise that this wouldn't be a panacea to all ills caused by drug-use.

In any case arguments pro and anti-legalisation are irrelevant to a thread about the use of cannabis as a medical product. Alas, it is reflective of a general trend where "experts" and "evidence" are eschewed in favour of "personal opinion" "emotion" and "catchy slogans".

HellSquirrel

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Y

I'm sorry if what I've highlighted sounds flippant but there's no more evidence for it than what you've claimed.

No matter what treatment (whether that is traditional anti-epileptic drugs or cannabis-based) there will generally be a trade-off between efficacy and undesirable side-effects. Cannabis as a treatment for epilepsy has been proposed for many many years but there is a dearth of evidence in properly controlled studies. If you want information tell your parents/brother to talk to your GP and consultant neurologist. Ask for a second opinion as well.

While you're not wrong about a lot of it, I would take a bit of exception to the first bit as it's not really supported by what she said. Sure, being a teenager and being cranky and unpredictable are often related! But she also spoke about how a diet that has worked throughout childhood no longer seems to be staving off the fits and he's seizing badly again at night, which does suggest a more serious issue than teenage hormones.

Clarebelly

The child seems happy enough with the ruling anyway....... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_jcxsE1Ahg

Jimoslimos

HellSquirrel wrote: »

While you're not wrong about a lot of it, I would take a bit of exception to the first bit as it's not really supported by what she said. Sure, being a teenager and being cranky and unpredictable are often related! But she also spoke about how a diet that has worked throughout childhood no longer seems to be staving off the fits and he's seizing badly again at night, which does suggest a more serious issue than teenage hormones.

Well hormones DO have a massive effect on diet and metabolism and may be one reason for both the mood swings and also why the diet does not appear to be as effective.

pragmatic1

Jimoslimos wrote: »

I'd rank heroin as less physiologically damaging than alcohol as a drug (but obviously more addictive). However it's the addiction part (and also it's legal status) that results indirectly in the worst side-effects of heroin use. Drug policy isn't simply concerned with the physiological effects on the individual but rather the wider social issues surrounding drug use, which tend to be felt more acutely in lower socioeconomic areas.

Of course I would welcome studies to show whether complete prohibition is the most effective use of resources and would broadly support decriminalisation of use of all drugs. However I also am realistic and recognise that this wouldn't be a panacea to all ills caused by drug-use.

In any case arguments pro and anti-legalisation are irrelevant to a thread about the use of cannabis as a medical product. Alas, it is reflective of a general trend where "experts" and "evidence" are eschewed in favour of "personal opinion" "emotion" and "catchy slogans".

And you'd be correct in ranking it as less physiologically damaging than alcohol. A pharmacist or toxicologist would be able to confirm this. The issues come with it's legality. It's prescribed for addicts in a few countries at present.

Fact is, and it is a fact, prohibition has been a massive failure. It's completely irrational, and if you look at the historical context of why some drugs have been criminalised, it wasn't due to health concerns.

bitburger

TallGlass wrote: »

Even Heroine and Cocaine, I am sure with proper scienceific research and other drug combinations they can cure. We shouldn't be so ignorant because we see what abuse of these drugs can do.

Heroin and Cocaine used to be sold as medicine back in the day

http://io9.gizmodo.com/how-todays-illegal-drugs-were-marketed-as-medicines-510258499

The Opium poppy is still quite used today in modern medicine (codeine morphine etc)

gctest50

pragmatic1 wrote: »

What would be wrong with legalising cannabis.

Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome all over the place if lads went nuts with the novelty of it being legalised ?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3576702/

Coinciding with the increasing rates of cannabis abuse has been the recognition of a new clinical condition known as Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome. Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome is characterized by chronic cannabis use, cyclic episodes of nausea and vomiting, and frequent hot bathing. Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome occurs by an unknown mechanism. Despite the well-established anti-emetic properties of marijuana, there is increasing evidence of its paradoxical effects on the gastrointestinal tract and CNS.

HellSquirrel

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Well hormones DO have a massive effect on diet and metabolism and may be one reason for both the mood swings and also why the diet does not appear to be as effective.

Fair point, but if anything, that pretty much just supports her previous statement, that the drugs he's been on so far are no longer as effective, hence the need for a different method of controlling it. Whether the answer is weed or not is up for debate (or would be if it was an allowable option!).

InTheTrees

Oops. I mis-edited. And can't delete.

jh79

HellSquirrel wrote: »

Fair point, but if anything, that pretty much just supports her previous statement, that the drugs he's been on so far are no longer as effective, hence the need for a different method of controlling it. Whether the answer is weed or not is up for debate (or would be if it was an allowable option!).

You can't release real medicine on the market and then hope it is effective. If cannabis oil is an option it needs to prove it is safe and effective first not the other way round.

SixSixSix

jh79 wrote: »

You can't release real medicine on the market and then hope it is effective. If cannabis oil is an option it needs to prove it is safe and effective first not the other way round.

True for NEW "real medicine". Cannabis and its pallative effects are by no means NEW!
Not that she is a great example but Queen Victoria in one famously treated with cannabis.
Yes, do trials, but I think it's positive effects and negitive effects are widely known.

pure.conya

Ellison Greasy Savings wrote: »

He gets cannabis oil, not cannabis. Slight difference in the name, massive difference in the product.

Oil tends to have high levels of CBD which doesn't get you high. Cannabis can have high levels of THC which is where the high and anxiety come from.

So why would anybody be against giving this kid cannabis oil? Ignorance i'd say.

Also, OP, what's your opinion? Boards is not a news dump.

Cannabis oil has high levels of whatever was in the cannabis it was extracted from and in the minds of rational people cannabis oil is cannabis

pure.conya

R P McMurphy wrote: »

The oil he would be using would be very high in thc but I imagine is taken by means which avoids any high which is a relatively simple process. CBD is not illegal

It's so simple yet GW Pharmacy hasn't managed to crack it with sativex

pure.conya

Dick phelan wrote: »

i'd honestly question the intelligence of anyone who is against this it's life changing medical treatment hardly the same as someone buying a 50 bag and rolling a spliff.

Yet the dreaded 50 bag (dun dun dun!) can work for lots of medical conditions such as MS

Wanderer78

A step closer to legalisation, thank God, might stop this stupidity. Best of luck to that little kid and his family. Must be stressful

pure.conya

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Jaysus do I have to spell it out. You put the oil in a capsule. This allows people to consume oil without any of the side effects traditionally accociated with cannibas by taking it as a suppository

You are patently wrong, in fact taking pretty much anything anally increases its potency as less chemicals are lost to digestion and stomach acid

pure.conya

K.Flyer wrote: »

Primarily because the "medication" is a Cannabis extract which contains high levels of THC.
Anything found to contain THC in Ireland is illegal, as is its possession or use. But because the family have shown it to be beneficial to managing their son's condition, the government have set a precedent and granted them a licence to legally use Cannabis as a medicinal product.

It's great news that it works and works so well but whatever happens that kid and other future patients better not get a little high, be playful, have great appetites, sleep soundly and listen to great music, heaven forbid!

pure.conya

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Aaaaaand once again we have some people trying to use this story as a reason to legalise cannabis for recreational use.

As others have said, this is a different product (cannabis oil) with a very different intent (stop the poor little fella having multiple seizures per day, rather than getting high) and in the context of that, I can't see why anyone would have a problem with it.

But it's not the same as letting the "cool kids" get high. Not at all.

You really need to read up on side effects of using this oil, getting high is a possibility, OMG!

gctest50

pure.conya wrote: »

Cannabis oil has high levels of whatever was in the cannabis it was extracted from and in the minds of rational people cannabis oil is cannabis

.

jh79

SixSixSix wrote: »

True for NEW "real medicine". Cannabis and its pallative effects are by no means NEW!
Not that she is a great example but Queen Victoria in one famously treated with cannabis.
Yes, do trials, but I think it's positive effects and negitive effects are widely known.

No different than old wives tales and unfortunately studies to date haven't been great.

mulbot

pure.conya wrote: »

You really need to read up on side effects of using this oil, getting high is a possibility, OMG!

Not when the oil is taken from the Hemp plant,

jh79

pure.conya wrote: »

It's great news that it works and works so well but whatever happens that kid and other future patients better not get a little high, be playful, have great appetites, sleep soundly and listen to great music, heaven forbid!

How well does it work?

In what % of those with that illness does it work?

Does it work forever? Is it gender or race specific?

How do you know it is safe given thc/ cbd levels are higher than what would normally be consumed?

mulbot

jh79 wrote: »

How well does it work?

In what % of those with that illness does it work?

Does it work forever? Is it gender or race specific?

How do you know it is safe given thc/ cbd levels are higher than what would normally be consumed?

Where do you get this information?

jh79

pure.conya wrote: »

You are patently wrong, in fact taking pretty much anything anally increases its potency as less chemicals are lost to digestion and stomach acid

And this is a major reason, ie bioavailability , why herbal remedies incl. weed don't work

jh79

mulbot wrote: »

Where do you get this information?

Am i wrong?

mulbot

jh79 wrote: »

Am i wrong?

Yes

jh79

mulbot wrote: »

Yes

Please explain?

mulbot

jh79 wrote: »

And this is a major reason, ie bioavailability , why herbal remedies incl. weed don't work

Have you anything to prove this?

jh79

mulbot wrote: »

Have you anything to prove this?

Strange you didn't challenge pure.conya. on this? He brought bioavailability up

mulbot

jh79 wrote: »

Please explain?

The amount of CBD and THC in the oil is in relation to the plant it comes from. Most CBD oils(in Europe) except for Sativex are extracted from the hemp plant,which has miniscule amounts of THC

mulbot

jh79 wrote: »

Strange you didn't challenge pure.conya. on this? He brought bioavailability up

You stated it being the reason Cannabis doesn't work-I'd like to see why you say Cannabis doesn't

pure.conya

jh79 wrote: »

How well does it work? Very well

In what % of those with that illness does it work? A high percentage will benefit greatly from it and a small percentage will not like the side effects

Does it work forever? Is it gender or race specific? Yes it works forever but like for glaucoma it may need to be used every 4 hours to be effective and no it's not gender/race specific

How do you know it is safe given thc/ cbd levels are higher than what would normally be consumed?

Because there's not one recorded death from its use for a long long time, we humans have been cultivating and using the plant for a lot longer than GW Pharmacy have been messing about with it

jh79

mulbot wrote: »

You stated it being the reason Cannabis doesn't work-I'd like to see why you say Cannabis doesn't

Check out the Cochrane reviews for marijuana, i've linked to them already on this thread.

pure.conya

jh79 wrote: »

And this is a major reason, ie bioavailability , why herbal remedies incl. weed don't work

No it isn't! Cannabis oil containing high concentration levels of thc/cbd is the key

jh79

pure.conya wrote: »

Because there's not one recorded death from its use for a long long time, we humans have been cultivating and using the plant for a lot longer than GW Pharmacy have been messing about with it

Could you answer the rest of my questions and then i'll reply.

jh79

mulbot wrote: »

The amount of CBD and THC in the oil is in relation to the plant it comes from. Most CBD oils(in Europe) except for Sativex are extracted from the hemp plant,which has miniscule amounts of THC

Ok but higher than normal? So you can't assume it is safe because these are not normal cbd thc levels.

Also gc test posted a study on adverse effects and pre clinical studies show CBD'S encourages blood vessel growth in tumours.

Still need some tox studies.

mulbot

jh79 wrote: »

Ok but higher than normal? So you can't assume it is safe because these are not normal cbd thc levels.

Also gc test posted a study on adverse effects and pre clinical studies show CBD'S encourages blood vessel growth in tumours.

Still need some tox studies.

Where are you getting the information that the levels are higher than normal

jh79

mulbot wrote: »

Where are you getting the information that the levels are higher than normal

Ok so explain what is different, why it is different and in %'s how well it works and for what specific illness , gender and race etc

If someone has other illnesses will it react with other medicine?

If a person has a mental illness is it safe to take etc?

mulbot

jh79 wrote: »

Ok so explain what is different, why it is different and in %'s how well it works and for what specific illness , gender and race etc

If someone has other illnesses will it react with other medicine?

If a person has a mental illness is it safe to take etc?

I've only asked you where you get the information that the levels of THC and CBD are higher than normal. Those other questions are best answered by research results and studies