This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

unkel

Battery is worth about €1500. I doubt the seller would let it go for the €2.5k I suggested, let alone for just €2k

slave1

Looks like Gen 1, that car's around 40% battery degradation, I've seen examples of Leaf's not being able to charge that remaining 60% to full.

"Around 85 km range in winter and 95km in Summer" looks very optimistic

I agree, rock bottom purchase only

slave1

...also, it's a shame there are few and far between EV DC charger PV inverters out there, would help this car's cause a bit

jhegarty

Battery can't be in great shape if all it's charging is at 50kw.

the_amazing_raisin

unkel wrote: »

Battery is worth about €1500. I doubt the seller would let it go for the €2.5k I suggested, let alone for just €2k

€1500 for the battery, €500 scrap value for the car wrapped around it

Markcheese

cruisey1987 wrote: »

€1500 for the battery, €500 scrap value for the car wrapped around it

True enough , An older ev without the battery is pretty much scrap ,
I know you could go put an upgraded battery into it , but would you risk it/go to the hassle for a car you didn't know -

unkel

cruisey1987 wrote: »

€1500 for the battery, €500 scrap value for the car wrapped around it

Indeed. But the car is in full working order apart from that. I'd give €2500 for it no prob if I didn't need AC charging. Or if I'd reckon I could get the AC chargin sorted for no more than €500. Not a chance your man will let it go for €2k, that's just not realistic.

the_amazing_raisin

unkel wrote: »

Indeed. But the car is in full working order apart from that. I'd give €2500 for it no prob if I didn't need AC charging. Or if I'd reckon I could get the AC chargin sorted for no more than €500. Not a chance your man will let it go for €2k, that's just not realistic.

Well, €2k is what I think it's worth, but yes I doubt the seller will accept under €2.5k unless they're desperate or they know they're majorly chancing their arm


Personally, I would equate not AC charging to an ICE car that doesn't drive. It's not exactly a niceity that's easy to overlook, you'd be looking to get it fixed if you bought the car.


Not sure what the repair cost is but I feel like €500 or below would be optimistic. I'm guessing you'd need to replace the on board charger which is a big chunk of hardware. Somewhere between €500 and €1000 including labour would be my estimate

Gumbo

jhegarty wrote: »

Battery can't be in great shape if all it's charging is at 50kw.

Is 50kw not the max for a leaf on Chademo anyway?

jhegarty

Gumbo wrote: »

Is 50kw not the max for a leaf on Chademo anyway?

It is , but if it's spent most/all of it's life charging at that speed it won't be in great shape.

For a healthy battery you want as much slow chaining as possible.

Kramer

unkel wrote: »

2013 Leaf for €4k - only problem is that it can't AC charge

Fine for apartment dwellers with no dedicated parking / charging who do a low mileage and who live around the corner from an ESB CHAdeMO charger who want an ultra cheap to own

It wouldn't be cheap to own/run though, if paying €0.35/kWh for each & every unit of electricity.
It would cost as much as a petrol/diesel to fuel & likely be worthless pretty soon.
An old degraded Leaf is problematic enough. One which can't be charged at home is worthless IMO. One would want to have masochistic tendencies or an OBC ready to go, to buy that.

ELM327

You could buy a setec home chademo unit for 1k which charges at 7-10kW chademo, you connect type2 AC to it.
I'd love an EV project, when I move house I'll be buying a twizy, and another "fun" EV. This leaf could be one of those. I aim to own one of every first gen EV.

Kramer

Kramer wrote: »

One would want to have masochistic tendencies .......to buy that.

ELM327 wrote: »

I aim to own one of every first gen EV.

:P.

ELM327

Mine would just to be classic EVs though. No one is going to daily drive a fluence EV or a leaf with 6 bars!

unkel

Kramer wrote: »

It wouldn't be cheap to own/run though, if paying €0.35/kWh for each & every unit of electricity.
It would cost as much as a petrol/diesel to fuel & likely be worthless pretty soon.

Like many people in this country, you are penny wise, pound foolish. As a second family car doing 2.5k km per year at 18kWh/100km, charged exclusively at those expensive fast chargers, this Leaf would cost €150 per year in electricity

You'd get that back in tolls discount and cheaper tax alone compared to a petrol banger

It's as near to zero total cost of ownership motoring as you can get, whether you pay €0.05 at home per kWh or €0.35 at the ESB, makes no material difference

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

You could buy a setec home chademo unit for 1k which charges at 7-10kW chademo, you connect type2 AC to it.
I'd love an EV project, when I move house I'll be buying a twizy, and another "fun" EV. This leaf could be one of those. I aim to own one of every first gen EV.

I'm very much like that. Would love a Twizy, but they are just so expensive for what they are and to add insult to injury, you can barely get them without monthly battery lease. One with a dead battery (and no lease) would be ideal, not hard to stick in your own home made pack, but the electronics are proprietary and no one has found a way to trick them into accepting another battery afaik. You can bypass all electronics and install your own but that would make the project expensive and very labour intensive

And a low range Leaf would be an ideal car for my daughters to learn to drive in. And we do have a CHAdeMO charger around the corner from us. I'd more likely than not be in the market for something like this in the next year or so...

Gumbo

jhegarty wrote: »

It is , but if it's spent most/all of it's life charging at that speed it won't be in great shape.

For a healthy battery you want as much slow chaining as possible.

Agh right. I see where your coming from now. I wasn’t sure if the context of the post

I agree, especially in the Gen 1 L24.

slave1

jhegarty wrote: »

It is , but if it's spent most/all of it's life charging at that speed it won't be in great shape.

For a healthy battery you want as much slow chaining as possible.

There were examples of Leaf taxis only ever fast charged and there is negligible degradation versus mostly AC charged.
That was on the 24kWh version.
But in this case there are more worrying sides to the purchase

Kramer

unkel wrote: »

Like many people in this country, you are penny wise, pound foolish. As a second family car doing 2.5k km per year at 18kWh/100km, charged exclusively at those expensive fast chargers, this Leaf would cost €150 per year in electricity

Well yeah, I guess if you don't drive it, any car is cheap to run .
50km per week?
What if someone is 20km from the nearest CHAdeMo charger?

Their effective, usable range would be 20 or possibly 30km.

The only person this would suit would be someone living beside a CHAdeMo charger, with masochistic tendencies, who is broke but still wants to virtue signal/espouse green credentials, while paying petrol/diesel running costs :pac:.

Tolls? They would be permanently tethered to the nearest CHAdeMo charger, never able to venture more than 20km from it. Would one even venture onto the M50 with it?

Remember, if you travel 30km from a CHAdeMo charger, you've got to also make it back that 30km, or you're screwed.

Outside of salvage value, without AC charging, it's worthless.

unkel

Kramer wrote: »

What if someone is 20km from the nearest CHAdeMo charger?

What bit of:

unkel wrote: »

Fine for apartment dwellers who live around the corner from an ESB CHAdeMO charger

Did you miss?

the_amazing_raisin

unkel wrote: »

Like many people in this country, you are penny wise, pound foolish. As a second family car doing 2.5k km per year at 18kWh/100km, charged exclusively at those expensive fast chargers, this Leaf would cost €150 per year in electricity

You'd get that back in tolls discount and cheaper tax alone compared to a petrol banger

It's as near to zero total cost of ownership motoring as you can get, whether you pay €0.05 at home per kWh or €0.35 at the ESB, makes no material difference

I heard a great point recently that when people buy an EV as a second car to a "main" ICE car, the EV quickly becomes the main car because it's cheap to run and is much nicer to drive for short journeys

Having an EV that doesn't AC charge would somewhat negate the first advantage and would mean the ICE car would still see a lot of use

If you're in a house where the main car is an EV, then you would likely already have access to an AC charger, in which case you probably don't want to get a car which can't use it

Maybe that DC charging unit elm mentioned would make it worthwhile. It's more expensive than a regular charger so would have to be balanced against the cost of replacing the on board charger

unkel

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I heard a great point recently that when people buy an EV as a second car to a "main" ICE car, the EV quickly becomes the main car because it's cheap to run and is much nicer to drive for short journeys

Yes this is very common. But if you buy a €2-€3k Leaf with a very limited range and some other problems as a second car for occasional local trips, I don't think anyone would expect it to become the main car any time soon

A lot of households with one EV then just switch to two EVs. A lot of new ones have so much range that you'd rarely have to use public charging anyway. Maybe just a few times a year. I have free unlimited worldwide lifetime supercharging from Tesla. The last time I used it was 10 months ago...

Kramer

Kramer wrote: »

What if someone is 20km from the nearest CHAdeMo charger?

unkel wrote: »

What bit of:

unkel wrote: »

Fine for apartment dwellers

Did you miss?

Err........I think you're seeing something there I didn't write unkel. I deliberately didn't say "if someone is [living] 20km from the nearest CHAdeMo charger". It doesn't matter where the owner lives. They can NEVER stray further than their (very limited) available range from the nearest CHAdeMo, regardless of where they live.

Any €2k banger would cover 50km per week & not constrain the owner to being perpetually no more than 20/30kms from a CHAdeMo charger.
That car needs the OBC replaced/repaired or to be parted out/scrapped.

It wouldn't be range anxiety, it'd be range paranoia .

the_amazing_raisin

unkel wrote: »

Yes this is very common. But if you buy a €2-€3k Leaf with a very limited range and some other problems as a second car for occasional local trips, I don't think anyone would expect it to become the main car any time soon

A lot of households with one EV then just switch to two EVs. A lot of new ones have so much range that you'd rarely have to use public charging anyway. Maybe just a few times a year. I have free unlimited worldwide lifetime supercharging from Tesla. The last time I used it was 10 months ago...

I dunno, I feel like a car with broken AC is a VERY hard sell. I'd take a Leaf with a degraded battery and broken Chademo over this one

As Kramer said, if you're 20km from a DC charger, and have 80km of range, then you're actually limited to 20km from your home because you need to leave 40km in the battery to get to the charger

Most city journeys would be within that but you're effectively buying a pedal bike with a roof for €2.5k (or €4k as the seller seems to think it's worth, good luck to them)

ELM327

just buy the setec chademo, you can plug in to type 2 AC and it outputs 3-20kW chademo.
Cheaper than fixing the AC charge onboard.

unkel

Any link to one, ELM327?

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

Any link to one, ELM327?

Little bit more expensive than I remember but there's loads on alibaba


https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/10kW-Portable-CHADEMO-CCS-EV-charger_62132832019.html?spm=a2700.wholesale.0.0.6be17c78dxXIzM

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

I'm very much like that. Would love a Twizy, but they are just so expensive for what they are and to add insult to injury, you can barely get them without monthly battery lease. One with a dead battery (and no lease) would be ideal, not hard to stick in your own home made pack, but the electronics are proprietary and no one has found a way to trick them into accepting another battery afaik. You can bypass all electronics and install your own but that would make the project expensive and very labour intensive

And a low range Leaf would be an ideal car for my daughters to learn to drive in. And we do have a CHAdeMO charger around the corner from us. I'd more likely than not be in the market for something like this in the next year or so...

You can buy them without battery lease, they exist in the UK (but you will have to pay 23% VAT ) and if you're very adventurous (since the twizy is not RHD or LHD) you can buy from Norway. They were sold there with no battery lease.

unkel

I know, I seriously looked into them a bit over a year ago. It would suit me perfectly for an occasional use second car and a bit of fun. I also looked into importing one from Norway. Still very, very expensive anywhere for what it is.

Kramer

ELM327 wrote: »

just buy the setec chademo, you can plug in to type 2 AC and it outputs 3-20kW chademo.
Cheaper than fixing the AC charge onboard.

ELM327 wrote: »

Little bit more expensive than I remember but there's loads on alibaba


https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/10kW-Portable-CHADEMO-CCS-EV-charger_62132832019.html?spm=a2700.wholesale.0.0.6be17c78dxXIzM

Are we in an episode of "Tales of the Unexpected" or "The Twilight Zone here?

Someone would actually consider spending upwards of €5k for a DC charger, to keep an degraded 8 year old Leaf running, which itself is worthless, or at best, possibly worth €2k parted out/scrapped.

Sure they could go the full hog & take a diesel generator with them in the boot too - it'd be a diesel self-charging BEV then, albeit an expensive one :pac:.

I hope the owner sells it to a recycler or someone who can repair it.
It ain't no bargain IMO, no matter how cheap it is or how anyone spins it. It's EOL, let it go, move on........