This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

McGiver

Kramer wrote:

Sure they could go the full hog & take a diesel generator with them in the boot too - it'd be a diesel self-charging BEV then, albeit an expensive one .

Hahaha brilliant. You should patent this one too...

McKramer AC Charging Limiter Gizmo (tm)
McKramer Portable Diesel Generator for Self-charging BEVs (tm)

You've got already two patents! Keep it up!

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Like many people in this country, you are penny wise, pound foolish. As a second family car doing 2.5k km per year at 18kWh/100km, charged exclusively at those expensive fast chargers, this Leaf would cost €150 per year in electricity

You'd get that back in tolls discount and cheaper tax alone compared to a petrol banger

It's as near to zero total cost of ownership motoring as you can get, whether you pay €0.05 at home per kWh or €0.35 at the ESB, makes no material difference

You are having a laugh suggesting saving money on tolls, a car with that range(range in the ad is clearly optimistic) won’t be going near too many tolls

the_amazing_raisin

Mayo_fan wrote: »

You are having a laugh suggesting saving money on tolls, a car with that range(range in the ad is clearly optimistic) won’t be going near too many tolls

Quickest way from Chapelizod to Blanchardstown is via the M50 toll.

Quickest way into the city from North Dublin is via the port tunnel which is tolled

It's an edge case yes but tolls often depend on where you live and work, for example when I was commuting from Swords to Leixlip I had to pay the toll but my co workers from Bray didn't, purely down to the location of the toll booth

listermint

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Quickest way from Chapelizod to Blanchardstown is via the M50 toll.

Quickest way into the city from North Dublin is via the port tunnel which is tolled

It's an edge case yes but tolls often depend on where you live and work, for example when I was commuting from Swords to Leixlip I had to pay the toll but my co workers from Bray didn't, purely down to the location of the toll booth

Nothing to do with the big ****ing bridge under the toll then no

the_amazing_raisin

listermint wrote: »

Nothing to do with the big ****ing bridge under the toll then no

I'm fairly sure that's the most profitable bridge in Ireland

I'm not complaining, I realise that tolls get installed at natural choke points to stop people bypassing them. Look at the Drogheda bypass, they needed to install toll booths on the Drogheda north exits to stop people driving through Drogheda to avoid the M1 toll

Just pointing out that tolls aren't exclusively paid by people doing long journeys

unkel

LOL I go through the M50 toll several times a week sometimes, just for social use. Save myself €3.16 on every return trip compared to an ICE car. Like I said several times already, but it seems some people are too thick to understand - this fast charge only Leaf is not for most people, but it would actually work quite well for me as a second car, if it is cheap enough to compensate for the slight pain of having to charge it on the public charger around the corner from me (instead of more conveniently at home)

unkel

unkel wrote: »

LOL I go through the M50 toll several times a week sometimes, just for social use. Save myself €3.16 on every return trip compared to an ICE car. Like I said several times already, but it seems some people are too thick to understand - this fast charge only Leaf is not for most people, but it would actually work quite well for me as a second car, if it is cheap enough to compensate for the slight pain of having to charge it on the public charger around the corner from me (instead of more conveniently at home)

<<MOD NOTE: Snip uncivil>>

You know well my point, this car is as you say only good as a 2nd / short journey car, the likelihood of any buyer regularly going through tolls is low so why add this into your electric car justification maths?

Once again picking and choosing facts to suit your agenda

liamog

cruisey1987 wrote: »

It's an edge case yes but tolls often depend on where you live and work, for example when I was commuting from Swords to Leixlip I had to pay the toll but my co workers from Bray didn't, purely down to the location of the toll booth

As someone who lives in D15 and works near Dublin Port, both the M50 Toll and Port Tunnel where fairly regular occurrences. I made arrangements with my employer to work around the Port Tunnel peak charges, turned a 90 min 9am commute into 25 min 10am commute.

the_amazing_raisin

liamog wrote: »

As someone who lives in D15 and works near Dublin Port, both the M50 Toll and Port Tunnel where fairly regular occurrences. I made arrangements with my employer to work around the Port Tunnel peak charges, turned a 90 min 9am commute into 25 min 10am commute.

I was doing the same pre covid, working from home until 10am then drive in via the tunnel. Took my commute from 45-60 mins down to 20 mins

unkel

Pure EV discount on the M50 toll bridge off-peak is 75% for anyone interested. I live in Lucan, so go through it all the time to go even to Blanchardstown, which is only a stone's throw away, but takes a good 20-25 minutes to get to even off peak on the back roads and less than 10 minutes via the M50. Also (used to) go to the airport a lot and to the North county Dublin beaches with the dog.

Kramer

unkel wrote: »

Like I said several times already, but it seems some people are too thick to understand

Is that aimed at me? .

You constantly dis Leafs for their obsolete tech & deride their reliance on CHAdeMo charging, but this one is a true bargain :eek:.
A bargain for the:
1. apartment dweller
2. living beside a CHAdeMo charger
3. who commutes to work through the M50 tolls, twice a day
4. but is no more than 25km odd distant from said workplace (including the distance from their apartment, to the charger)
5. who either enjoys driving in a perpetual state of (range) anxiety or
6. is a habitual user of valium or xanax (or both, preferably ).



I think you should buy it unkel, just to prove me wrong & prove to all, just how great a bargain it is - maybe start a Gofund me, it could actually make for an interesting YouTube video series - "my life with a degraded Leaf & no AC charging - an exercise in masochism".

.

Best of luck to the seller, but it's not for me, sadly. But I'm only a culchie thicko, what would I know .

ELM327

I'd have bought it if I had moved house already. We're with the underwriters and I'm literally waiting on the car to sell so I can move.
Once there, I have a 4 car garage and an acre field to fill with hopeless cause or funny cars. I aim to own one of each of the first gen EVs. Including US only ones like the rav4 Teslayota, the fiat 500e etc. But said leaf will fit in there. I can buy a setec 10kW charger with dual head CCS and Chademo, better than a home charge point as it plugs into a CEE plug if needed. Wonder if I could get the grant!!

unkel

Kramer wrote: »

You constantly dis Leafs

No I don't, you haven't been paying attention in the last few years. I constantly recommend Leafs. At the lower end of the market, sub €10k for a 2016 30kWh is a good proposition. So is €4k for a 24kWh early model with severely limited range. Or indeed €2k for same with no slow charging, provided of course any of these suit you

I've said before I am not yet in the market for a second family car but might be in a year (or two). Depending on budget, it is quite likely I will pick up a Leaf.

ELM327

A leaf, especially a cheap one, can be a great second car exactly because of those limitations. The cars are cheaper because of them.
A 60km range car would do us fine as a second car. The nearest big town (Navan) is 20km each way for shopping etc.

Everything I'd be buying even as a joke (twizy, 500e etc) would easily do that return trip.

Kramer

ELM327 wrote: »

A leaf, especially a cheap one, can be a great second car exactly because of those limitations. The cars are cheaper because of them.

100% agree.
Not one with no AC charging though.

ELM327 wrote: »

A 60km range car would do us fine as a second car. The nearest big town (Navan) is 20km each way for shopping etc.

Without AC charging & assuming there's a CHAdeMo in Navan, you'd have a usable one-way range, from home, of 10km in that Leaf :eek:.
You'd be paying petrol/diesel fuel costs too & God forbid the CHAdeMo was broken - that Leaf would be have to be just abandoned there.

Anyway........I've said my piece & wish unkel well with his purchase :pac:.

ELM327

Again, if I was buying that leaf, I would have 10kW chademo at home (perhaps 20kW), so it would not be relevant about public charging.
A key point of the Tesla or any similar long range EV is that you dont need a public network regularly. If in a regular week or month you need to visit a public FCP at all, then I would wager that EVs are not for you unless you are a masochist.

Kramer

ELM327 wrote: »

If in a regular week or month you need to visit a public FCP at all, then I would wager that EVs are not for you unless you are a masochist.

QED .

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

A key point of the Tesla or any similar long range EV is that you dont need a public network regularly. If in a regular week or month you need to visit a public FCP at all, then I would wager that EVs are not for you unless you are a masochist.

I'd say your a little extreme on the once a month piece. If you live in Dublin and do a once a month trip to Galway, you'll pass plenty of rapid chargers along the way.

Busman Paddy Lasty

So what's the shopping list ELM?

Leaf 24
iMiev
G Whiz
Twizy
Tesla Roadster 1
Think City
Buddy
Rav4 (compliance)
Ford Focus (compliance)
Fiat 500 (compliance)
GM EV1
Honda EV Plus
Ford Ranger EV
Ford Transit Connect electric

Classics and 19th century cars excluded. You may need a few blocks to build a second garage!

unkel

I'd take all of the above please

But seriously, in particular the FIAT 500, in the US you can buy a 2017 for around the $7k mark, would be my ideal second family car. Pity they were only ever sold there be and are LHD only

TheWonderLlama

Convert an ICE one.
https://transition-one.eu/

unkel

TheWonderLlama wrote: »

Convert an ICE one.
https://transition-one.eu/

Yeah, interesting but vague and that site has been around for some time but nothing concrete and I guess it is for France only too

Total conversion cost from €5k for the cars (mostly small cheap city cars) that they have packages for, which is a very low barrier in fairness, you could buy a €1k FIAT 500 petrol and get it converted so you end up with a €6k EV

ELM327

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

So what's the shopping list ELM?

Leaf 24
iMiev
G Whiz
Twizy
Tesla Roadster 1
Think City
Buddy
Rav4 (compliance)
Ford Focus (compliance)
Fiat 500 (compliance)
GM EV1
Honda EV Plus
Ford Ranger EV
Ford Transit Connect electric

Classics and 19th century cars excluded. You may need a few blocks to build a second garage!

Most of those are not the same gen.
The EV1 was never sold.


I'm talking about EVs from the late 00's (although I'd love a true 90s first gen like a Ranger EV or Rav 4 EV)


I'm more suggesting:

EU:
Zoe
Leaf
Twizy
Fluence
One of the Triplets


US:
Focus
Tesloyata Rav 4
Fiat 500e

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

Tesloyata Rav 4

How about a Teslmercedes B250e?

ELM327

Meh, take or leave that one tbh.

emergencylime

unkel wrote: »

How about a Teslmercedes B250e?

I was about to say does the Mercesla b class count, they seem to be holding their value as well as the early i3s though.

slave1

Peugeot e208, €26k landed assuming no VRT or VAT, note this is the high spec GT line, this car not up on VRT Calculator, should be zero though....

Orebro

unkel wrote: »

How about a Teslmercedes B250e?

No rapid charging on those I think? Even if you didn't need it on your daily usage it's a big thing to be without. Fine car otherwise.

unkel

Indeed and they're holding their values too well imho to be a great bargain. I think they might have 3ph 16A charging though (11kW), so you would not be completely stuck on a long journey, just charging slightly slower than a rapidgating Nissan Leaf :pac:

unkel

Quiet in here these days

That €33k 2014 Model S (private sale, out of warranty, no AP1, pre-facelift) is now gone, wonder how much he got for it. Cheapest Tesla in the country now a €35k 2014 Model S (private sale, no warranty,no AP1, pre-facelift). Makes ELM327's car look like very good value!!!