This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

irishgrover

grogi wrote: »

Very often that's not the case with software unfortunately. If it is badly designed at early stages, it simply cannot be fixed, no matter how many resources you throw at it.

What needs to happen is a complete rewrite from scratch. In my 20 years of experience in this business, I have seen that only once. Others live in a world where serious bugs, issues and problems are there till the product dies.

It took huge balls and courage from the management to admit their teams screwed up, but the results paid for this exercise. Having in mind that this platform will be with VW for years, they should do it. And maybe they are, while simultaneously they try to make up cars in the wild already.

In a previous life, I was the person that was sent in to interview senior managers in other companies / gov depts when IT projects went terribly terribly catastrophically wrong.
There was normally a common theme. We would ask questions, dig deep, talk about process, decision making, culture etc. At some point quietness would desend, the person being interviewed would inevitably look at their shoes and say "I can't believe I didn't just say STOP"
It's very difficult, in the heat of chaos and deadlines to realise that you've already lost, so you just keep ploughing ahead, hoping for miracles.

unkel

2017 Ioniq, black with the grille wrapped, looking good, €15,995 from a dealer

Linky

Black_Knight

unkel wrote: »

2017 Ioniq, black with the grille wrapped, looking good, €15,995 from a dealer

Linky

That was the one in Meath going for 15k about a week ago. Obviously couldn't sell it and traded in.

the_amazing_raisin

unkel wrote: »

But they did write this software from scratch only recently, didn't they?

No they got most of the software in the current cars from Continental. VW are currently building their own OS but not sure how much of the existing software will be replaced. Maybe they'll do the whole thing or maybe VW will focus on the infotainment system and UI layer and leave the hardware layer to the vendors

unkel

They should do the whole thing from scratch in house. Anyone can build a battery or an electric motor, we've all done that for over 100 years. The power is in the software. That's why Diess said particularly that VW was 4 years behind Tesla.

the_amazing_raisin

unkel wrote: »

They should do the whole thing from scratch in house. Anyone can build a battery or an electric motor, we've all done that for over 100 years. The power is in the software. That's why Diess said particularly that VW was 4 years behind Tesla.

I'm not sure about everything in house, it might make more sense to leave the hardware layer stuff to the vendors. But they should definitely take over the application and presentation layers


It's a bit like Apple versus other PC's. Apple do everything themselves and it works great as long as you don't try to do something outside Apple's ecosystem. Other companies rely on standard ways of doing things (some enforced by international bodies, other are more de facto standards) and try to work together. Results are less optimised but they tend to work better


What's the "right" way to car software, hard to say really. I prefer to see standardisation as I don't like the way Tesla have locked everything down. However other companies haven't exactly been very supportive of open source and they tend to go for propietary solutions anyway


At least with VW bringing things in house they'll have more control over what they're getting

Alkers

unkel wrote: »

2017 Ioniq, black with the grille wrapped, looking good, €15,995 from a dealer

Linky

What are the real-world ranges on these? I assume their not rated for towing?

ELM327

real world 160-220km
No towing

BigAl81

I was going to do a post here recently for ELMs Model S, but then it's a thread for EV's your NOT buying

How about this in lieu instead...

2015 Tesla Model S €31,950

Seems well specced with 7 seats, free super charging etc. Has about 180k kms on her.

Gumbo

The lunacy of VW software on the ID range.
No kw charge rate on the display.
The dash shows km per minute.
The app shows km per hour.

One of the FB Group lads done a “gripe” review!

Black_Knight

Gumbo wrote: »

The lunacy of VW software on the ID range.
No kw charge rate on the display.
The dash shows km per minute.
The app shows km per hour.

One of the FB Group lads done a “gripe” review!

Bargain!

ELM327

Gumbo wrote: »

The lunacy of VW software on the ID range.
No kw charge rate on the display.
The dash shows km per minute.
The app shows km per hour.

One of the FB Group lads done a “gripe” review!

Yes it was great. That gripe was for once accurate!

BigAl81 wrote: »

I was going to do a post here recently for ELMs Model S, but then it's a thread for EV's your NOT buying

How about this in lieu instead...

2015 Tesla Model S €31,950

Seems well specced with 7 seats, free super charging etc. Has about 180k kms on her.

If you wanted basically the same car as mine, but with 7 seats and free supercharging, but a year older and the older nosecone, no MCU2 etc, that's a good deal.


To be honest, as the prices of the early cars go down and down, they become more attractive. There are 2014 S85's for sale in the UK for 24k with AP1 and free supercharging.

the_amazing_raisin

Gumbo wrote: »

The lunacy of VW software on the ID range.
No kw charge rate on the display.
The dash shows km per minute.
The app shows km per hour.

One of the FB Group lads done a “gripe” review!

Yeah whoever did the UI for the ID cars needs to be shown the door


It's a shame because other than a few tweaks to the charging curve and battery heating, the underlying software seems fairly good


It's all let down by a haphazard UI


Oh, charging timers that work would be nice too

unkel

BigAl81 wrote: »

Seems well specced with 7 seats, free super charging etc. Has about 180k kms on her.

That's a great price if you can see past the miles and the private sale / no warranty. No mention of MCU1 / battery been replaced, I guess they haven't yet. Wonder why the hell he doesn't have it on DoneDeal???

slave1

BigAl81 wrote: »

I was going to do a post here recently for ELMs Model S, but then it's a thread for EV's your NOT buying

How about this in lieu instead...

2015 Tesla Model S €31,950

Seems well specced with 7 seats, free super charging etc. Has about 180k kms on her.

Well it's not fully loaded as advertised, no premium sound, no dual chargers.
On the plus it has a front console which I would like.
Good price considering out of warranty, if seriously interested I'd suggest he puts it in for a Tesla inspection

unkel

Does anyone know what those Leafs went for last week in Merlin's? And the Fluence this week?

jhegarty

unkel wrote: »

Does anyone know what those Leafs went for last week in Merlin's? And the Fluence this week?

These are the most recent ones in that have list. They update the file monthly.

2018 NISSAN LEAF 40K EV SV PREMIUM LAUNCH ED T 40 0 €15,100 0 39,993 km 1 ElectricAuto MPV Feb-21

2015 NISSAN LEAF E ACENTA 0 2 stamp ser/his €5,800 0 72,776 miles 2 ElectricAuto Hatch Dec-20

2012 NISSAN LEAF E ELEC 0 €4,100 0 73,396 km 1 ElectricAuto Hatch Jan-21

2012 NISSAN LEAF EV Main Nissan Dealership Direct. Spare key. €2,800 0 143,848 km 2 ElectricAuto Hatch Feb-21

2015 NISSAN LEAF EV SVE 6 KILOW CHARG 0LeafSpy - Battery SOH 82.95% €9,000 0 12,054 km 1 ElectricAuto MPV Dec-20

2018 NISSAN LEAF N 40K EV SVE 2T 40KW 182 windsor stamp serv/his €17,100 0 92,149 km 1 ElectricAuto MPV Feb-21

unkel

Cheers, I'd say that might have been from last month. There was a poor condition white Leaf no way anyone in the trade would have paid anywhere near €2.8k for it so I'd say we'll see the result of that one in the next lot

What does it take to get those results anyway, do you need to pay a monthly sub?

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

Cheers, I'd say that might have been from last month. There was a poor condition white Leaf no way anyone in the trade would have paid anywhere near €2.8k for it so I'd say we'll see the result of that one in the next lot

What does it take to get those results anyway, do you need to pay a monthly sub?

The snapshot is a fiver a month or a yearly sub is available.

NIMAN

This thread has really dried up since Brexit.

ELM327

Theres no more UK bargains due to 23% vat

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

The snapshot is a fiver a month or a yearly sub is available.

If that meant I could bid, I'd gladly pay that. But they came back to me with "strictly trade only" and I have no appetite to go through the hoop of pretending / claiming I'm in the trade

ELM327

That doesnt mean you can bid, it's just a list of what everything sold for in the past month.
Registering to bid (BAU) is free. You need a 1k deposit.

slave1

For those of us with sunroofs, there's silicon sprays in Lidl/Aldi currently to lubricate the outer rubber strips after Winter non-use

gomamochi1

ELM327 wrote: »

Theres no more UK bargains due to 23% vat

Any way around the 23% stamp by leaving car in n. Ireland for 6 months then importing it?

kanuseeme

It's possible to buy vat free in the UK. you need to find someone/some company who will sell you a vat qualifying car. 10 % duty applies to any car not made in the UK and any car made in the UK must have something like 60% domestic produced parts.(not completely sure on %).

Vrt then.

In short, vat free in the UK, pay vat and duty here.

I believe any car in the north before jan 1st 2021 should be ok, after that I am sure revenue will be looking for their cut.

slave1

gomamochi1 wrote: »

Any way around the 23% stamp by leaving car in n. Ireland for 6 months then importing it?

Nope, too late for that ‘fraid

slave1

kanuseeme wrote: »

It's possible to buy vat free in the UK. you need to find someone/some company who will sell you a vat qualifying car. 10 % duty applies to any car not made in the UK and any car made in the UK must have something like 60% domestic produced parts.(not completely sure on %).

Vrt then.

In short, vat free in the UK, pay vat and duty here.

I believe any car in the north before jan 1st 2021 should be ok, after that I am sure revenue will be looking for their cut.

Also needs to have been registered in the North befor Jan 1st, I’d imagine there’s plenty of UK regs been driven up North on UK plates...

the_amazing_raisin

kanuseeme wrote: »

It's possible to buy vat free in the UK. you need to find someone/some company who will sell you a vat qualifying car. 10 % duty applies to any car not made in the UK and any car made in the UK must have something like 60% domestic produced parts.(not completely sure on %).

Vrt then.

In short, vat free in the UK, pay vat and duty here.

I believe any car in the north before jan 1st 2021 should be ok, after that I am sure revenue will be looking for their cut.

I think a vat qualifying car is basically new or a dealership car, once it goes into private hands you can't reclaim the vat AFAIK

Probably not going to save any money, but you could probably get a higher spec car than what's available in Ireland. Kona or E-Niro would be good examples of this

slave1

Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD, FSD, VAT Qualifying £45k, what more do you want.....apart from checking it's full NI status re Brexit

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202101298491819?price-from=500&sort=price-asc&make=TESLA&radius=100&include-delivery-option=on&year-from=2020&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&advertising-location=at_cars&fuel-type=Electric&postcode=bt817yj&ni-only=on&page=1