This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

the_amazing_raisin

fits wrote: »

It’s possible that owner thought they’d be doing a lot more driving. Been a strange old time.

True, if you're working from home or retired it's easy enough to do less than 10,000km per year in Dublin, the car is probably just used to go down the local shop and back

I think I've done about 6,000km in the Leaf over the past 12 months and it's the main car

the_amazing_raisin

Kramer wrote: »

Maybe it's a city thing? Culchie priorities are:
1. will she pull a box?
2. is she hard on daysul? &
3. is the tax cheap?

So basically a horse is the ideal method of transportation in rural Ireland

Kramer

Kramer wrote: »

Maybe it's a city thing? Culchie priorities are:
1. will she pull a box?
2. is she hard on daysul? &
3. is the tax cheap?

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

So basically a horse is the ideal method of transportation in rural Ireland

Don't knock it 'till you've tried it :pac: They work in cities too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi_tSXLCAZ8

Nearly seven years ago now.........my Pajero was running on biofuel back then :eek:.

unkel

I saw a video of Dublin city centre from the 80s recently. Plenty of donkeys still about doing hard work. Ireland was very, very poor back then, about the poorest country in western Europe.

ELM327

Unkel you are right. Irish people are very quick to bemoan FDI and our corporate tax haven.
They are either too young or too forgetful to remember the days of 60%+ PAYE rates and massive unemployment, massive poverty. We were a third world country until the mid 80s - thanks Dev!

the_amazing_raisin

Kramer wrote: »

Don't knock it 'till you've tried it :pac: They work in cities too.

Alas the Luas no longer allows horses after that one incident

pdpmur

ELM327 wrote: »

We were a third world country until the mid 80s - thanks Dev!

Yeah, and then we regressed further into banana republic territory, due to Mr Charvet Shirt and his Mohair Suit brigade.

cee_jay

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

True, if you're working from home or retired it's easy enough to do less than 10,000km per year in Dublin, the car is probably just used to go down the local shop and back

I think I've done about 6,000km in the Leaf over the past 12 months and it's the main car

With Covid, the in laws have just under 3500km up on the Leaf they bought in January 2020. He would be very high risk so they haven't really gone anywhere, shopping now done online etc.

ELM327

pdpmur wrote: »

Yeah, and then we regressed further into banana republic territory, due to Mr Charvet Shirt and his Mohair Suit brigade.

We still are a banana republic.

garo

ELM327 wrote: »

Unkel you are right. Irish people are very quick to bemoan FDI and our corporate tax haven.

I think you are conflating two things here. Nobody bemoans FDI. It's a win-win as both the investor and the country. Corporate tax haven on the other hand is a zero sum game. It helps the companies massively, helps Ireland a bit and hurts other countries massively. When other countries don't get the tax due to corporate tax shenanigans like the double sandwich, those countries either have to raise taxes on other companies or the people or cut services or both.

If the noise from across the pond is to be believed those days are now numbered. A global minimum corporate tax rate of21% as Biden seems to be proposing would bring the gravy train (for US tech and pharma mostly) to an end.

Gumbo

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

True, if you're working from home or retired it's easy enough to do less than 10,000km per year in Dublin, the car is probably just used to go down the local shop and back

I think I've done about 6,000km in the Leaf over the past 12 months and it's the main car

Even Pre-Covid I would only do about 12k km per year.
That includes the commute, driving for work etc but I’m lucky enough to live and work in Dublin. And all my sites are Dublin based also.

I’ve only done 7.5k km since June 2020 in the Current car.

liamog

Mod Note: Can we move on from general taxation discussion and back to EV bargains, politics is interesting there's a whole forum for it https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1728

ELM327

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104171467918?radius=1500&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&make=TESLA&advertising-location=at_cars&sort=price-asc&include-delivery-option=on&postcode=bt11aa&page=1

19k

Silent Running

ELM327 wrote: »

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104171467918?radius=1500&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&make=TESLA&advertising-location=at_cars&sort=price-asc&include-delivery-option=on&postcode=bt11aa&page=1

19k

Under offer. That was never going to hang around.

garo

Funny price drop. 4k. https://tesla-info.com/car/GB-dc7c950c130e

unkel

That was ridiculously cheap, maybe something wrong with it? It's a performance and all! I guess a hefty bill though if you wanted to bring it into Ireland. VAT alone would be about €5-6k

pdpmur

Surely as the expiry of the 8 year battery and drivetrain warranty is hoving into view on the horizon, prices will start to drop quite a bit?

unkel

pdpmur wrote: »

Surely as the expiry of the 8 year battery and drivetrain warranty is hoving into view on the horizon, prices will start to drop quite a bit?

Still well over a year away for that car (August 2022) just keep your fingers crossed that the battery will have an issue before then and will be replaced

I agree with you though, at this stage with cars coming to the end of the battery warranty I would specifically look for a car that has had its battery replaced in the last year or two.

cannco253

Can anyone replace a Tesla battery outside of warranty, or is it only Tesla who can do it? I presume the cost would be prohibitive.

unkel

cannco253 wrote: »

Can anyone replace a Tesla battery outside of warranty, or is it only Tesla who can do it? I presume the cost would be prohibitive.

Yes you can bring any car to any garage you like during or outside of warranty. That is European law

But you are putting your finger exactly on the sore spot there. Because all Teslas in Ireland and the UK were sold in 2014 and later, every single one of them is still under full Tesla battery and drive train warranty until at least some time next year

This means there is no possible reward for an independent garage to get into this business

As you can see in the USA, where the earliest cars are now outside of warranty, independents are starting to repair Tesla batteries. For a fraction of the cost of what Tesla charges

This is a system that is as old as the automotive industry itself and has always worked well. Now obviously the number of older Teslas in Ireland is very small, so we might not get a decent indy over here. Same as there are no decent indies for Ferraris or Rolls-Royces in this country, but there are in the UK

the_amazing_raisin

cannco253 wrote: »

Can anyone replace a Tesla battery outside of warranty, or is it only Tesla who can do it? I presume the cost would be prohibitive.

Talk to Rich Rebuilds

The actual mechanics of changing the battery are relatively simple, although you do need to lift the car and maneuver a battery pack weighing several hundred kilogrammes. So if you have any mechanic friends then it might be feasible

Financially speaking, it's not worthwhile as the car will essentially be worthless afterwards. It's a bit like seeing a BMW that someone swapped in a bigger engine, you wouldn't be paying full price for it as it's been modified and possibly screwed up in the process

unkel

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Financially speaking, it's not worthwhile as the car will essentially be worthless afterwards. It's a bit like seeing a BMW that someone swapped in a bigger engine, you wouldn't be paying full price for it as it's been modified and possibly screwed up in the process

Not sure where you are getting that from? In a Model S there are a number of modules i.e. 17. You can easily enough find which one has issues and just replace it with another one. Zero modification there. These modules sell for around $1k on eBay.

ELM327

Silent Running wrote: »

Under offer. That was never going to hang around.

Agreed.
It's so cheap that even with VAT, VRT, Duty it makes it a bargain here.

the_amazing_raisin

unkel wrote: »

Not sure where you are getting that from? In a Model S there are a number of modules i.e. 17. You can easily enough find which one has issues and just replace it with another one. Zero modification there. These modules sell for around $1k on eBay.

I meant around resale value, I think people are generally suspicious of a car which has had significant changes, especially when they're out of warranty

I think there's a bit of a myth out there that EV owners can swap in a new battery, or even a bigger battery, and it'll improve the resale value of their car. It's something you'll often hear from certain companies selling battery swaps

To be clear, I think battery swapping is a good idea for giving old cars a new lease of life and you can reuse the old pack for Solar batteries.

But I don't think anyone has actually made a profit by doing this

unkel

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

I meant around resale value, I think people are generally suspicious of a car which has had significant changes, especially when they're out of warranty

I think there's a bit of a myth out there that EV owners can swap in a new battery, or even a bigger battery, and it'll improve the resale value of their car.

Your mixing up a lot of things there. Swapping out a Tesla battery module for an identical other one is not a modification of any sort. It's the same as replacing an EGR valve in your diesel, it's just a repair

Agreed that people upgrading the battery in their knackered battery Nissan Leaf with a bigger one are having a major modification done which needs to be declared to the insurance company and they are not adding much value to the car. Totally different scenario

ELM327

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

I meant around resale value, I think people are generally suspicious of a car which has had significant changes, especially when they're out of warranty

I think there's a bit of a myth out there that EV owners can swap in a new battery, or even a bigger battery, and it'll improve the resale value of their car. It's something you'll often hear from certain companies selling battery swaps

To be clear, I think battery swapping is a good idea for giving old cars a new lease of life and you can reuse the old pack for Solar batteries.

But I don't think anyone has actually made a profit by doing this

This myth is perpetuated by one moron that speaks at the IEVOA meetings. He's advising people not to declare battery mods (eg 24-40kWh leaf) to their insurance.

the_amazing_raisin

unkel wrote: »

Your mixing up a lot of things there. Swapping out a Tesla battery module for an identical other one is not a modification of any sort. It's the same as replacing an EGR valve in your diesel, it's just a repair

Agreed that people upgrading the battery in their knackered battery Nissan Leaf with a bigger one are having a major modification done which needs to be declared to the insurance company and they are not adding much value to the car. Totally different scenario

True, but it's pretty well known that Tesla don't sell their battery packs to independent repair shops, so any replacement done by an indy will be using a salvaged pack

Again, no problem with this per se, but I don't think you'd see the resale value go up so even stay where it is

Think of it this way, say you bought a Model S 75 with a severely depleted battery for €20k, and somehow you found a newer battery in good condition and got it replaced for €5k

So you've spent €25k, and a used Model S seems to be going for over €30k, so in theory you can sell that car for a profit. But I think when people see the battery has been swapped out of warranty and the new pack is salvaged from another car, they won't be happy paying €30k for that car

Now if you're looking to keep the car, then it might work out well because you get a good range Tesla at a discount. But as I said, I just don't see people making money off of it

Note: I pulled most of those numbers out of thin air, not saying those a representative costs

DrPhilG

ELM327 wrote: »

This myth is perpetuated by one moron that speaks at the IEVOA meetings. He's advising people not to declare battery mods (eg 24-40kWh leaf) to their insurance.

The same fella claiming that he's not in it for the money but charging €7-8k for upgrades?

the_amazing_raisin

ELM327 wrote: »

This myth is perpetuated by one moron that speaks at the IEVOA meetings. He's advising people not to declare battery mods (eg 24-40kWh leaf) to their insurance.

It's the modern day snake oil :rolleyes:

liamog

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

It's the modern day snake oil :rolleyes:

Similar to the regular claims that e-scooters are in a legally grey area