This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118533980#Comment_118533980

I think your memory is letting you down. You couldn't buy these here in 2014 and afaik the top of the range Tesla with all the options ticked back in 2014 (i.e. my car) was around £90k back then in the UK. 8 years later it is still worth about 35% of the new value. No other high end luxury car (Audi A8, BMW 7-series, Mercedes S-class) can match that. In other words, depreciation on these cars is low. Not high.

ltd440

Ah OK, I assumed these didn't have fast charging, makes it an even better bargain then

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118567316#Comment_118567316

Disingenuous to say the least.

Why not a brand new EV complete with warranty like an enyak or Kia EV6. Both coming with full warranty and tbh a nicer place to be in than a 4 year old sparse design tesla.

Its brand, frankly and tbh its got an unadulterated cult following.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118568188#Comment_118568188

That's the argument I used to get 20 years ago when people asked me why I had just bought a 7 year old BMW 735i V8 petrol. For €11k. Many people on the motors forum (I guess like yourself) were shocked. They asked me "why did you not just buy a 3 year old Corolla for the same money?" 😂

I guess older Tesla Model S / BMW 7-series are not for some. A Toyota Corolla is not for me. Each to their own...

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118567331#Comment_118567331

Nothing wrong with my memory, thanks. It’s a good friend, he ordered from tesla directly, wired them the cash, and got it shipped to Hamburg - they wouldn’t deliver it here (or not without silly expense) so he went there and drove it back.

2014 S class online seem to start about €30k, the (cheaper new) 7 series are around €25k, so it’s pretty similar when you consider the % depreciation, I know you Tesla boys like to be exact on these things, but it’s roughly similar.

not many luxobarge buyers would choose this older spec, with that outdated front end, early BEV, over the S Class of that era. Not a chance.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118568476#Comment_118568476

No your mistaken the BMW you got was luxury in comparison to the corolla.

Just as the kia would be luxury over the tesla.

Spartan isn't all its cut out to be tbh. You've flipped around from where you were on the former bangernomics so to speak. The tesla is the complete opposite to that mantra.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564627#Comment_118564627

The first EV I had. Work car, not mine but got us into them in 2012!

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118567244#Comment_118567244

Similar cars in terms of performance.

this M5 would have been near 150k new.

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/28591114

BMW M5, 2013 Monte Carlo 560bhp

Black_Knight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118568494#Comment_118568494

EV Luxobarge buyers would. And second hand EVs are almost going up in price, so nothing to say it's priced incorrectly. Unkels car has warranty (limited, but it has some), do any of those Mercs or BMWs? Early BEV sure, but battery replaced a year ago (can't remember what year battery you go unkel, but it's certainly a positive), CCS converted, MCU fixed (early model S issue), door handles fixed (early model s issue). To someone who wants a big family sized Tesla, it's the right one for them.

Link to the Ad since it's about 2 pages ago now 🙄

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/tesla-model-s-p85/30233324

sk8board

So I’m clear - you’ve listed a bunch of problems with these older teslas which, if fixed/replaced/upgraded, they represent good value. in full agreement with that.

as for warranty’s, those S class I scanned last night are all garage cars presumably with garage warranties. You wouldn’t buy one without some warranty for sure.

slave1

The one I posted (the €65k) has 12month garage warranty alongside battery/drivetrain warranty from Telsa an additional up to 4 years.

I'm driving a Model S that just hit 7, I still have a guts of a year bumper to bumper warranty and a year battery/drivetrain.

In the UK all these warranties can be extended via a Third Party Insurance arrangement

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569483#Comment_118569483

In the past I bought all my older petrol luxobarges privately, with no warranty. Of course I bought well sorted cars and checked them out before I bought. Never had any major problem after. And let's be clear, there is a lot more to go wrong in an older petrol and in particular diesel car than can go wrong in an electric car. But as I said, some people feel more comfortable in a relatively new econobox bought from a main dealer with warranty. Other people (like myself) also have a modest beer income, but prefer a champagne lifestyle and the luxury high end cars that go with it 😂

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569960#Comment_118569960

Although there is a lot more to go wrong in an old luxury petrol its very fair to say that there are a lot more ways to fix them and a lot more experts who are familiar with cost effective workarounds, not to mention huge availability of cheap secondhand parts. If I buy a Tesla with no warranty as the battery fails, will I have a local mechanic who can fix it or is it trailer to Tesla e.g. I see your car had the battery replaced under warranty, if this needs replacement again what would it cost- I'm guessing more than the car is worth?

Either way in the current mad market - where dealers are asking more for 2 year old diesel SUV's than they cost new - anything is possible and its very likely you have underpriced your car

Old diesel

Value can be a really subjective thing sometimes.

Someone buying a 65 k Model S isn't necessarily buying for totally objective reasons.

They buy because Tesla or indeed specifically the Model S is THE car they really want.

The cars aren't very common and Brexit has messed up the UK imports because of the extra customs and VAT stuff.

If you want specific things like specific battery or as good an autopilot as you can - plus avoiding nerfed batteries.

Its going to get pricey quickly

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118571407#Comment_118571407

Nah, there are indy's now that can work on the HV stuff. No need to bring it to Tesla. Also, every single Tesla that drives around in Ireland is still under full battery, motor and drivetrain warranty. Mine included.

And you are saying about cheap parts for older combustion engine cars? A door for my Porsche 928 cost €4500 + VAT. And that is the bare, unpainted door. Trim and all the fittings are extra and so is the labour for fitting / painting it...

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118571608#Comment_118571608

A door for a car built in relatively low volume, out of production for over 25 years is hardly a good example.

in say 3 years time, how much will a battery pack for that (now out of warranty) 2014 model S cost, relative to the cost of buying the same 11yo car?

my guess is it’ll be about the same, and effectively write off the car.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118571763#Comment_118571763

HB Dennis in Swords will strip the battery and replace the bad Cell.

Cell can be got for €1k.

Labour be high i imagine so id budget €5k.

My brother just dropped his 141 318d into a Garage in Ashbourne as drivetrain issues and not driving right.

Timing Chain, Flywheel, clutch all need to be done. €3k repair bill.

These things happen, and they can happen to any car variant.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118571763#Comment_118571763

Only Tesla replace the whole battery, grand if they do it for free within warranty for sure, but nobody has ever paid for that with their own money (unless they are an imbecile). Several companies can fix the batteries now, typically there is a fault with just one module (my Model S has 16 of them iirc), you buy a refurbished one for about $1000, swap it out. Would nearly do it myself if I had the equipment to take a battery out that weighs nearly a tonne 😂

That brings me to another point. If a similar value ICE car would be crashed and is a write off, it would be recycled and it would have very little value. The batteries in a crashed old Model S alone are worth $16k. Another reason depreciation on EVs is near glacial. Batteries have roughly twice the lifespan of the car itself, so they will be re-used when the car is gone.

Old diesel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118571763#Comment_118571763

This high cost of repair vs the value of the car issue is an issue on ICE cars too.

Has been for years.

Especially with the built in reliability flaws that complex modern cars bring with them

What do you realistically think happens a mk3 Mondeo diesel TDCi with injector failure and the car worth little.

It gets scrapped.

Its not like the old days of the Ford Sierra where you could source an engine of another Sierra for small money and get your mechanic friend to do the swop as a cash job.

Fine to raise concerns that EVs risk being too disposable.

But let's drop the pretence that ICE cars can still be fixed at home for cheaps and kept going for 450,000 miles with most drivers these days.

They can't

cannco253

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118571608#Comment_118571608

How about a thread listing independents who work on BEVs? Seems to be word of mouth that you find out about who can do some work for you, outside of the dealer network.

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118573770#Comment_118573770

I’m not suggesting ICE cars are any different at that age - indeed I’m making the point that they’re the same - potentially.

there’s definitely fewer things to go wrong with EVs, but the reality is that a replacement battery pack will almost certainly lemon an 8-10yo ev.

the suggestion further up that EV depreciation is ‘glacial’ is simply not borne out by reality over the past decade, and in the current market is very little difference from ICE. My own 6yo ice hasn’t depreciated at all really in the past 2 years.

you may have been referring to 2nd hand EV depreciation perhaps, but with so few available in 2012-2019, that’s going to happen, albeit the Leaf was the biggest seller in that era and those all took an almighty dump.

slave1

Can't seem to partially quote on new Boards, but anyhow

"but the reality is that a replacement battery pack will almost certainly lemon an 8-10yo ev."

Reality is an 8-10 year old EV will not need replacement pack, but IF a replacement is necessary then the old battery pack is still worth thousands and in my case if I was replacing my Tesla Model S 85 pack I would be getting a 90pack which will provide greater range and faster charging speeds. It's not all quite cut and dry, time will tell, we have very few 10yo EVs on the road apart from early Leafs (where Nissan got the pack wrong and quickly sorted out) and early US Teslas

NIMAN

I remember when this thread used to just have links to cars for sale.

Far too much chat, which would be better suited to the Random EV thought thread. No?

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118574299#Comment_118574299

I started this before but there isn't enough garages to keep the thread alive, I think I know of four, possibly five in the whole country

BigAl81

Ok then, here you go...

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2016-tesla-model-s/30368198

What a bargain ;)

unkel

Great ad! The only things I would change is the 0-60 time, it is 4.2s according to zeroto60times.com, which I find very reliable. Not just over 3s as per the ad. Also the dog hairs in the boot are a bitch to remove, on a car of this value, I would pay a pro to remove them and put up some new pics. Will cost you a few quid though as they too will spend a few hours on it.

Best of luck with your sale! I presume you are waiting until it is sold before ordering another Tesla? Buying a base model 3? What about the poor doggy, can it then no longer travel in style? 😁

BigAl81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118604131#Comment_118604131

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah I wasn't sure on the 0-60 time alright. The first few results from a google search say 3.8 seconds but I'll defer to your expertees and I've updated it now, I split the difference between the 3.8 I saw and your 4.2, and it now says about 3.9 seconds 😎

Yeah put the add up after a few glasses (bottles?) of wine last night, so just used any auld photos I had to hand, I'll update some better pics later today.

The dog never goes in the boot and has pride of place in the main cabin. She's non shed, I find more of the wife's hairs in the car than the dogs 🤣 Yeah I've gotten the car valeted twice since I got it, they do a great job alright.

Yeah I don't actually really want to sell it. But if someone offers asking price, and I can get a new Model 3 for about 3 grand, I'll have to consider it. Wifey is keen to get the new car, I'm keen to keep the S. The 3 would be a downgrade, but brand new.

Actually, does anyone know how the RWD handles in snow & ice?

I've booked a test drive of the Model 3 for Friday for the craic so I'll report back then. I've also submitted a trade in valuation from Tesla, but no word back yest. And of course if I do actually sell, first refusal will go to ELM ;)

ELM327

Best of luck with the sale, good logical decision in profit taking and getting your 3 at a discount.

Unfortunately our solicitor reckons we're at least 6-8 weeks away from moving & draw down so I can't make an offer for Severus, much as I'd love to.

unkel

It's not a negotiation about the 0-60 times, BigAl81 😂

BigAl81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118604642#Comment_118604642

Yeah in no rush to sell, and would likely be waiting for a new 3 for a while so let's see what happens there. I don't want to get your hopes up too much as I more so want to keep the car, but I'll see how the test drive of the 3 goes on Friday 👍️