This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937393#Comment_118937393

Eh? What's your point? I bought my Tesla Model S 2 years ago and sold recently and my depreciation was MINUS €12k.

Black_Knight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937588#Comment_118937588

Your buy price of your model S was a screw up by Tesla CPO pricing. Not a fair reflection of actual depreciation.

funnyname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937588#Comment_118937588

Exactly my point, thanks

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937918#Comment_118937918

You’ve misread Unkel post. He made €12k profit 🤣

funnyname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938337#Comment_118938337

no I didn't

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937393#Comment_118937393

That car has to be near €100k.

But compare it to the equivalent car at the time that the original buyer would have been going for.

Audi RS6

Audi S4

BMW M5

Merc AMG

What was their new price then compared to what you’d get one for now? I think you’ll find they have all depreciated in line with each other which is what I’d expect.

The running costs of each car compared may tell another story though. I’d say with some Cindi other the Tesla cost multiple times less than the others to own for that period.

But, like all EV’s, their not for everybody. And that’s fair enough. We have choice s in this world. Nobody is forcing anybody into EV.

But at least we can directly compare the fixed costs to purchase as similar.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938348#Comment_118938348

Ok cool.

funnyname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938354#Comment_118938354

Without derailing this thread, I have a spreadsheet comparing the cashflow of buying a new EV vs upgrading my 08 ICE to an non new ICE and I have kept everything the same bar the cost of "fuel", if I am less prudent with my figures on servicing, tyres, repairs then it makes more of a case for the EV and then if I factor in depreciation (or appreciation in unkle's case) being less for the EV vs ICE then it's a no brainer to change.

However I wonder at what stage does the market find it's natural balance and depreciation of EVs comes in line with that of what we've historically seen for ICE, my rule of thumb is 50% depreciation every three years. So while we are waiting for that natural balance early adopters are making the most financially from things not being the "norm" and maybe this is the new norm where EVs hold their value way better then ICE cars ever did.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938492#Comment_118938492

I agree. 50% after 3 years should be the norm but at the moment, with the shortage of EV’s and the tipping point of the general public now seriously looking at EV’s, prices are high!

I would be a very prudent buyer, and the last time I lost on a car was about 20 years ago. Through experience, luck and picking the right cars I’ve made a profit on every car I’ve bought throughout my life and that includes the EV’s I’ve owned since 2017.

That won’t continue into the future I don’t think but for the moment your correct, we haven’t reach equilibrium with regards to the normal depreciation.

slave1

Re that car, it does not have a 85kWh battery, it never had, 85 is the variant of vehicle and not the size of the battery, I'd say it likely has around 72kWh usable by now at best.

If serious then I'd check everything done to this car over the years, specifically the battery/drivetrain, if first registered in Ireland then all of this should be available. Very little battery/drivetrain warranty left, that's a gamble in a 2014/2015 Freemount build. If seller serious then it should be booked into Tesla for a comprehensive health check.

Nice P+ model though and free SuC nice if on your regular routes

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937393#Comment_118937393

Early Model S prices were crazy high, extras like premium sound and dual chargers were £2.5k each. You can't really take earliest adoption prices into mainstream depreciation scales. Better to look at how much they cost used 2/3 years ago and how much they are worth today as being more realistic. As Unkel said many of us have made clear profits over that timescale on EV sales, I had my S for 26k kms and 2 years, cost me less than €50 to charge as I had free SuC and cleared €6k with a queue of buyers at asking

YellowRattle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937645#Comment_118937645

Whats that phrase, never let facts get in the way of a good story.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118943915#Comment_118943915

You want facts…..

I bought a 2014 Model S P85+ in June 2021 for €34k. Sold it in July 2022 for €36k.

I then bought a 2016 Model S P90DL in July 2022 for €48k. Just traded that in 2 weeks ago for €57,620.

snowcat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118944216#Comment_118944216

So what? cars have gone up in price. I have an electic thats gone up by 20%. Im not going to sell it as my car cost is incidental. I have a low end electric i paid cash for. I wonder why people who buy a new car are worried about the residuals. If you cant afford the potential depreciation then it is a slight bit silly buying the car. Cash in on your car now and walk.

...Ghost...

Not seeing many bargains posted here

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118944346#Comment_118944346

Never borrowed to buy any car, and hopefully never will, I’m very lucky in that regard. I’ve also never bought a new car in my life.

It’s not about depreciation. It’s about experiencing the cars for me. I’ve gone from Audi to Skoda to an MG. I’ve gone from near new cars to 15 year old cars, couldn’t care about the reg or badge. I’ll leave that to others.

Ill keep enjoying them and move them on to try something else. Thanks.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937645#Comment_118937645

That would be up for debate. At no point did anyone in Tesla consider it a misprice and plenty of people (in the UK) were involved in the process before I actually paid them (mere hours before I collected the cars). Until that point there was no contract and they could have just told me it was put up below market value, sorry mistake, here's your £100 back.

Anyway that was a gain in value of just 50% after 2 years. Did you not read what I posted about my Fluence Z.E.? Bought for just over €2k last summer. Now worth at least €5k and rising. That's a gain in value of well over 100% in about 8-9 months (tax free too), this will likely be up to about 200% by next year.

Negative depreciation anyone?

And these things aren't hidden. Earlier this year there was an i-Miev for sale on DD for several months with an asking price of €3k. Probably could have been bought for €2k. Nobody seemed to bother. I guess very few people have done their homework and don't know beyond a Leaf for a cheap full EV (these are also going up steeply in value)

ELM327

It is a manual process buying the CPO cars, it's not an automated click and send. Plenty of tesla employees had their eye on it before the purchase was confirmed, before that it's "Invitation to treat" and not a contract as per standard tort/SOGSOS definition. I had bought mine a few weeks before Unkel bought his so I had been sharing the process I went through with him and I dont think the price was a mistake. I think at that time the market for 2014 S (even performance variants) without free supercharging (*) was depressed enough that the price paid was cheap but realistic. The same car now would be probably late 20k early 30k pounds or about 35-37k euro here if you can get one.

ELM327

Aaaaanyway. Back to bargains. There doesnt seem to be many about at all, worth noting that the midnight silver metallic P85+ is still listed at 39k unsold. I suspect that is due to the lack of even basic AP.

slave1

....and ticking battery/drivetrain warranty

Black_Knight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951300#Comment_118951300

Maybe they marked it so cheap because they knew you'd be in and out to the dealer getting the best of your warranty so much. Fair play though.

At the time you bought it, and others got/seen similar cheap CPOs, we were all calling it a "glitch"/"sleepy intern".

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951699#Comment_118951699

I think any of those early nosecone cars that are still on the road would have had replacement battery and motor/s at this point anyway. I'd be surprised if that car is still on a B/C pack.

unkel

Motors are fine if they lasted this long and the battery was probably already refurbished. Wouldn't call them a ticking timebomb, there will be plenty of outfits that will be able to drop the pack, open it up, replace a dodgy module with a good one from the open market and make sure all is singing and dancing again for a couple of grand. Wouldn't bother me.

unkel

That i-Miev for about €2k (advertised at €3k for months) was a bargain, glad to see it finally sold. It's crazy it wasn't picked up earlier, that would have been a zero total cost of ownership local low mileage car. Negative depreciation, €120 tax, 50-75% off tolls, supercheap insurance, no maintenance, €100 per year to charge at home.

I fully charged the Fluence Z.E. today at home from excess solar PV. Wil probably run it fully on the sun until autumn. Waiting for a small upgrade to my system and then I will be able to charge EVs at the full 32A from the sun (this is as fast as any home charge point can charge)

whatchagonnado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118944216#Comment_118944216

Are you Marty McFly?

ltd440

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951991#Comment_118951991

I had that i-miev on my watch list too, I couldn't believe nobody was going in with a low offer and seeing if he'd budge.

There's a couple of leafs under 7k on donedeal ( ones a 2015 with 320k on the clock ) that's about all we'll see for the foreseeable future.

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951980#Comment_118951980

Both Rich rebuilds and Gruber have been replacing faulty modules but they are failing again a few months later, as we gain more information from 2012/2013 US battery replacements we will know better. Nosecone's on their 3/4th battery is not unheard of at this stage. I think a lot of it is down to luck on battery quality at build time, the BMS is aggressive so software side of the house is fine...

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951991#Comment_118951991

While I agree with you in generall in this thread, both of those cars suit only a very narrow range of potential uses so they don't really demonstrate the same kind of thing that your Tesla example does.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952479#Comment_118952479

Yes of course, the Renault is even worse as it can not even fast charge, only slow charge at 3.3kW. Still this would make it a perfect second family car for many people. Range is limited to about 60km in winter though, so if you need two cars for daily longer commutes than 60km each, it won't suit. I don't know any family in the greater Dublin area where both partners have a commute of over 60km though and half the population lives here. But for those people this car obviously doesn't suit.

The majority of cars on the road in Ireland today do not even average 60km per day (which is 22k km per year). And the overwhelming majority of second family cars doesn't even do half that.

Phil.x

Are any of the original EV bargains still working, any have less than 60km range from a single charge.