This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122506478#Comment_122506478

I never said it would. People who can afford a new Ev don't need the grant, put that money into infrastructure instead or as above guarantee the battery after warranty has expired. That would help second hand uptake, there're huge fears around out of warranty Ev's.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122506478#Comment_122506478

It will effect resale and depreciation. Which effects new car sales. One is not independent of the other.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122506622#Comment_122506622

Subsidies are a very inefficient way of spending tax payers' money and it gets progressively worse if the government gets actively involved in any maintenance / quarantee scheme. So scrap that. Let the market do what it does best ⇒ find a balance between supply and demand in a changing world

It is only a matter of time before indies spring up that will repair batteries for a reasonable price. First they do it for rip off prices (but lots cheaper than a dealer), then more will pop up and competition will drive prices down. This is exactly what happened in more advanced countries with a more mature EV market and / or higher penetration of EVs. Like Norway, the Netherlands and even the USA and the UK

You can see it coming in Ireland where there are now loads of small outfits that fix / replace elderly Toyota Prius hybrid batteries for very reasonable money. It's the main reason these cars are so popular with taxi drivers. They are not afraid of battery problems any more as they all know those places that fix them

positron

Does this qualify as a bargain?

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/tesla-90d-162d/37518690

4 owners since import from UK is the only thing that stands out to me. Free supercharging and premium. Headlight situation has been highlighted in the ad already. Any thoughts?

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122507381#Comment_122507381

Posted here before and yes it is a bargain. The market for an out of warranty 8 year old €20k car in a private sale is small in Ireland. That said, it surprised me it hasn't been sold. It is the cheapest facelift Model S that has been posted here yet.

The 90D is also rapid with tonnes of traction and a 0-60 time of 4s. No other car of this size and this low a price can do that

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122507381#Comment_122507381

Careful on the free SUC transfer, my car had it for infinite owners and my SUC would not appear at zero cost on the screen like in the Ad, that was one of the ways you could tell it is truly free and transferable. That would need to be checked. The 90pack is a chem improvement over the 85pack and generally more reliable and not throttled, no air susp could be a good thing to rule out future expense associated with air susp, the sunroof is a minus in my mind as a weak point in terms of water.

That is a great price however

User1998

I feel like if it was a bargain it would be sold by now? Its good value alright, but a bargain?

...Ghost...

No mention of AP on the Model S either. Looks like good value. Not sure it's a bargain, but it's a lovely yoke and cheaper than the rest.

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122506923#Comment_122506923

If EU brought in a regulation all EVs sold must have 8 year/300,000km battery and drivetrain warranty with no get out clauses then it may drive up new pricing, it may not increase new demand but on the used market the vehicles would be worth a lot more. It also would mean cars were less likely to be scrapped early.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122508166#Comment_122508166

Unlikely to happen I’m afraid. EU are probably more interested in getting people using public transport.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122508166#Comment_122508166

True but I can't see it happen. Back in the day cars only has a 1 year warranty. This has slowly gone up over the years, but purely because of competition. The market generally works well and state interference is generally bad for everyone.

BMW having just a 3 year warranty yet despite numerous issues with their diesel cars, this doesn't seem to stop there being a thriving second hand market of these cars. People buy a 5 year old BMW 520d over a 5 year old Kia Optima which has several years bumper to bumper warranty left. They don't care and pay a big premium for the BMW, despite very high chances of it going to cause major financial head ache

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122508379#Comment_122508379

EU has regulations regarding battery health coming in.

"...Battery health information must be made available to the battery owner in order to determine the further use, repurpose, or remanufacture potential of the battery. ..."

beggars_bush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122508435#Comment_122508435

I always seem to spot 2-3 year old Audis on the bed of recovery trucks

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122508459#Comment_122508459

Likely also diesels

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122508144#Comment_122508144

Photo says AP1 which is the best imho

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122508166#Comment_122508166

The EU can’t legislate for second hand cars, because they’ll all be in different condition, whereas new cars have strict standards. the only thing an 8yr standard warranty would benefit would be private sales of 4-8 year old cars, and neither the EU nor manufacturers have any interest in those sales.

A dealer selling one of their own cars second hand will add a warranty anyway, so if a warranty is the issue just buy from a dealer.

The car that started this convo was the model 3, and tesla don’t ever want to see their own cars again, they have no secondary market, so there’s no chance of them extending the warranty

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122508447#Comment_122508447

That’s encouraging at least - it shows to me that we’re still early stages of the EV industry and that more is needed to protect the consumer, especially in the secondhand EV market.

It’s all well and dandy people buying out of warranty EVs and experiencing no battery problems before selling them on again in a few years- not so good if you’re the one stuck with a dud- I guess a lot of this will be dependent on consumer experiences and just how many EVs out of warranty experience problems that lead towards the scrap heap - if repair and replacement costs come down and if there’s a clear way forward for such vehicles then second hand prices will settle down over time - but in the meantime, a potential 5 figure repair bill or a scrapped car is a factor that will keep out of battery warranty cars low in value- comparisons to ICE cars are just ridiculous - rarely would you be faced with catastrophic failure of a secondhand ICE car - a very unlucky situation.

Norrie Rugger Head

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509017#Comment_122509017

I bought a second hand car and within 18 months it had a DMF failure, head gasket failure, and the handbrake had seized so would not fully engage (all at the same fecking time)

Current second hand car I got at 4 years and have had it for last 6. In that time I've changed the timing belt and, recently, a door lock actuator has failed. That's it.

It's all a gamble.

I'm hearing of people training up to do battery work, that will alleviate a lot of anxiety people will have

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509082#Comment_122509082

Sure these things do happen to ICE cars - I just think we’re still very early days with EVs in terms of the “knows” and “unknowns” - that just creates consumer doubt but hopefully efforts will be made to overcome this doubt - afterall EVs are the way forward for now so consumers deserve this support

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509017#Comment_122509017

The chance of an EV battery failing outside of the 8 year old warranty is very small, if you disregard very early EVs and Nissan Leafs. Far smaller than the chance of a serious repair bill on a similar age diesel car. Like DMF / EGR / turbo / timing chain / DPF / injectors etc.

The only issue here, as I stated, is that there are far fewer indies out there that can fix the EV battery for reasonable money (like a low 4 figure sum tops) as there are indies that can fix the diesel issues for similar money. This is because we are at the start to middle of the total transition of combustion cars to electric cars.

unkel

BTW, feck all low end EV bargains in the last few weeks. Even quite strongly priced iMIEVs and Fluences at €2.5k-€3k and Leafs around €3k have all sold within days. Cheapest EV on DD at the moment is a €3k Leaf

Coincidence or are people finally copping on that these cars are super cheap to own and comfortable second or third family cars?

Flinty997

Probably the rising cost of fuel and servicing and repairs.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509443#Comment_122509443

Of ICE vehicles? I'm talking the last few months here, not years. Nothing much happened in the last couple of months in fuel costs, servicing and repairs (for low annual miles second family cars), where low end EVs could be picked up for half nothing 2-3 months ago for very strange reasons. But that seems to now have ended.

flyer_query

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509418#Comment_122509418

Re the Fluence, I'd say they are being scrapped / broken for parts to be honest, nobody wants to drive them because they are too big for a city car which is all the range is good for, plus they are horrendous looking yokes.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509566#Comment_122509566

The market usually dips a bit during Summer months and picks back up in August. Everyone away on holidays and no money for cars.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509566#Comment_122509566

I assume it's slow increase over time along with falling EV prices.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509624#Comment_122509624

You'd have thought that most people have less money in August rather than June though. All money spent on holidays and back to school stuff / college fees about to be paid

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509594#Comment_122509594

What a load of bollix. Fluence are very popular as taxis (obviously diesels, not EVs), they are average size for a taxi, yet very comfortable to be in.

And did you not read my post? Only last week a cheap Fluence Z.E. showed up on DD for fairly strong money and it was sold within days.

If a car looks good or not is of course subjective, but I don't remember anyone actually calling a Fluence horrendous looking before (as opposed to a Leaf, where a lot of people think that)

ElitesTeam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122510354#Comment_122510354

A fluence is not a popular taxi unless your talking about being in France.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122510381#Comment_122510381

The Fluence was a very popular taxi on irish roads ya mad man. Specifically related to finance deals and meter installation deals at the time.