This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

Casati

ELM327 wrote: »

As you know, you can get P85 for much less than that.



It's a P85+, not a P85D, and doesnt have AP.
I just checked autotrader and the 3 that were there last week between 25 and 28 are gone.

Its not a good time to be judging pricing it seems, but what I will agree on, is that is a really good price for an Irish based Tesla. I will countenance it by saying that for 5k more, my facelift '16 S90D was bought including VRT from Tesla direct including 12k miles bumper to bumper warranty



And my 0-60 time is within 0.3 seconds of the 3.9 for the p85+.

What remaining warranty would a 2014 have if any? I live 200 miles from the nearest Tesla dealer so that would be a major issue - will Tesla likely open more workshops or indeed are we seeing independents do work in Tesla?

That P85 is lovey looking, the alloys and colour combo works very well

Gumbo

Old diesel wrote: »

Problem with buying an early 40s (price wise) 20@4 Model S....

Is that a bit of saving gets you into a new Model 3......

You'd have the latest 2020 tech....

1st owner.....

And the Model 3 will remain Nerf free at superchargers and what not for longer. Even if that's purely because it's new and would be nerfed eventually.

It's not clear yet how or if Model 3 would be nerfed - Bjorn had a video about it. But little concrete info.

You could go "boring" and have a brand new Kia EV.....

Depends on the priorities.

But you want to really want a Model S to go for a P85 at 42 k imo.

There is one caveat......

The Model S IS a landmark car and if you keep it long enough then it's a future classic one would think.

Still needs to drop in value more however before that aspect which is speculation kicks in.

ELM327 wrote: »

The P85+ is a rare beast too. Staggered wheel size from factory. Massive rear motor so great for fun use.
It's unfortunate that there's no AP as it limits the novelty factor

However: one thing that makes tesla unique, you could be sitting charging that car at Ionity on CCS, watching Netflix in the MCU screen. Neither of those were possible when the car was sold.


However, for similar money, this is a better buy
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202003128345169?sort=price-asc&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1500&make=TESLA&postcode=l10aa&page=2

My problem is i'd want the Performance version. Full Stop.
I'd buy a 3 year old P over a brand new standard for the same price and I have done with many cars over the years.

For example, opting for a 2007 535d when I could have bought 08 520d with lower taxes etc, but no! I went from an 02 Civic Type R to a 1997 Integra Type R, then to a 98 Evo. ive gone from 2003 530d to 1999 S3

Year, reg plate etc make no difference to me, but I do agree about the obsolete tch and that the M3 would be a better buy for the tech side of things.

ELM327

Casati wrote: »

What remaining warranty would a 2014 have if any? I live 200 miles from the nearest Tesla dealer so that would be a major issue - will Tesla likely open more workshops or indeed are we seeing independents do work in Tesla?

That P85 is lovey looking, the alloys and colour combo works very well

Agree it is a great presented car.
Warranty is 8 years for drivetrain + battery from first reg. Therefore the warranty will run out in 2022.


They have rangers that they send to you, you don't have to bring the car in most times.

Gumbo wrote: »

My problem is i'd want the Performance version. Full Stop.
I'd buy a 3 year old P over a brand new standard for the same price and I have done with many cars over the years.

For example, opting for a 2007 535d when I could have bought 08 520d with lower taxes etc, but no! I went from an 02 Civic Type R to a 1997 Integra Type R, then to a 98 Evo. ive gone from 2003 530d to 1999 S3

Year, reg plate etc make no difference to me, but I do agree about the obsolete tch and that the M3 would be a better buy for the tech side of things.

The 2014 P has the same performance as the S100D.
So you're not actually getting more by buying the older car, except the P styling and badge.


FWIW I'm the same with plates and performance. I owned an 06 e60 535d instead of buying an 08 520d for similar money a few years ago.

The M3 LR non P would have similar performance and better delivery of the performance, than that P. But the P is much better looking!

copeyhagen

if i go for another S, it would be this
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202002267748611?price-to=45000&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&advertising-location=at_cars&sort=price-asc&radius=1500&make=TESLA&postcode=bt11aa&page=2&newApplicationVersion=true
has AP, and an extended warranty with allianz uk, im with allianz now, wonder would they honor the warranty here.

my options at the moment look like
1. another used s, probably from UK. the Tesla cpo's on their site are gone mad expensive, and no 2014s or 15s. i emailed them to see about stock, but would you believe, heard nothing back.
2. brand new M3 SR+
3. buy an egolf for the free leccy motoring an buy a second oldskool car, maybe a 1970s toyota or a 1989 skyline gtr.

option 3 will probably end in a dovorce though.. win win

ELM327

copeyhagen wrote: »

if i go for another S, it would be this
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202002267748611?price-to=45000&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&advertising-location=at_cars&sort=price-asc&radius=1500&make=TESLA&postcode=bt11aa&page=2&newApplicationVersion=true
has AP, and an extended warranty with allianz uk, im with allianz now, wonder would they honor the warranty here.

my options at the moment look like
1. another used s, probably from UK. the Tesla cpo's on their site are gone mad expensive, and no 2014s or 15s. i emailed them to see about stock, but would you believe, heard nothing back.
2. brand new M3 SR+
3. buy an egolf for the free leccy motoring an buy a second oldskool car, maybe a 1970s toyota or a 1989 skyline gtr.

option 3 will probably end in a dovorce though.. win win

That is a lovely car, the linked one.
However the quoted 0-60 is 4.4 seconds. The S90D facelift and S100D are faster.

copeyhagen

have you checked the cpo prices though in UK, crazy high now.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

However: one thing that makes tesla unique, you could be sitting charging that car at Ionity on CCS, watching Netflix in the MCU screen. Neither of those were possible when the car was sold.

Indeed. Unlike any other car. My P85 RWD could not be driven without traction control for the first nearly 6 years of its life. Until 2 days after I bought it and with the software update you could switch it off :cool:

You and I have very different priorities. I'd take that over watching Netflix on an MCU2 any day :pac:

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

Indeed. Unlike any other car. My P85 RWD could not be driven without traction control for the first nearly 6 years of its life. Until 2 days after I bought it and with the software update you could switch it off :cool:

You and I have very different priorities. I'd take that over watching Netflix on an MCU2 any day :pac:

No, I'm just less willing to drift my 50k tesla, when I can (and have in the past) had a few 500 quid rwd cars to do that!

Also: Giving my use profile, I probably spend more time sitting charging than you do

ELM327

copeyhagen wrote: »

have you checked the cpo prices though in UK, crazy high now.

CPO and autotrader and ebay, seem to have all gone up!

unkel

Gumbo wrote: »

My problem is i'd want the Performance version. Full Stop.

For what I paid, I would have been more than happy with a bog standard Model S 60 with no options at all.

Now I have the Performance version, it would be really hard to go without it. And only the first generation is RWD, all later ones are D (AWD), which is far less desirable to me (but magic of course in terms of grip and downright acceleration)

There is very little difference between a P85 and a P85+ BTW (if both on air suspension), mostly the 21" and staggered rear wheels. Looks better and costs more in tyres, that's pretty much it. The 21" wheels again look great, but are far too big for bad roads imho. Would I turn down a P85+ over a P85? Hell no.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

CPO and autotrader and ebay, seem to have all gone up!

And sterling has jumped up in the last week or two. That adds €3,000 to the cost of a GBP35k car

ELM327

Yeah.

Getting back to bargains on the cheaper side of the house:

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/renault-zoe-2014/24560062

Perfect for a 100km range second car.

listermint

ELM327 wrote: »

Yeah.

Getting back to bargains on the cheaper side of the house:

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/renault-zoe-2014/24560062

Perfect for a 100km range second car.

Battery lease on those or no?

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

Perfect for a 100km range second car.

Perfect except for the monthly very expensive lease, that you have to pay forever until you scrap the car.

I'd rather spend a few grand more, to buy a similar range car, that will have a lower total cost of ownership and won't give you a ball ache if you ever need to sell it again.

ELM327

In fairness it's 5k for a second car. The base lease is 49 eur per month. Hardly ball breaking.

I'd prefer the Zoe over the equivalent leaf
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2012-nissan-leaf-one-owner-low-mileage/24393099

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

In fairness it's 5k for a second car. The base lease is 49 eur per month. Hardly ball breaking.

The ball breaking part is when you need to sell it (which will be nigh on impossible). Also it's a €6k car, not €5k. Over 5 years the simplified total cost of ownership difference with say a same year €9k Nissan Leaf is:

Depreciation Zoe €4k (€2k end value if you are very, very lucky), Leaf €5k, Lease 60 months * 49 = €3k

So Zoe costing €2k more. That's quite significant on a budget car. And doesn't have any fast charging and problematic public charging in general. But looks much better

ELM327

All fair points, however: If I was looking for a second car that was doing 60-80km max a day and was going to charge on AC at home and the AC SCPs where available then I'd pay the 2k for the Zoe to not have to drive a leaf!

unkel

You can now also buy out the battery lease (in the UK, but most likely also here), I started a thread about it on this forum. I haven't yet seen a simple table / calculation of how much the buy out would be, depending on model of the car / year / mileage, etc. But that would be a real option for me to buy it out. I dislike monthly payments as opposed to paying up front as by definition, monthly payments are more expensive (as they include the cost of credit, risk of default, admin costs, etc.)

jhegarty

If anyone doesn't want AP this isn't too bad. (not unkel value , but not too bad).

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/used/5YJSB3H12EFP36660

2014 Model S85
42,109 miles

Warranty : 2 years / 57,891 miles

Free Supercharging

£29,800

unkel

jhegarty wrote: »

If anyone doesn't want AP this isn't too bad. (not unkel value , but not too bad).

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/used/5YJSB3H12EFP36660

2014 Model S85
42,109 miles

Warranty : 2 years / 57,891 miles

Free Supercharging

£29,800

The last time a sub GBP30k CPO Model S was posted up in the UK, it was sold very quickly.

That car doesn't have free supercharging though, but it does have Ultra High Fidelity Sound and Dual Chargers, which are desirable options. Also nice long warranty. 2 years or the guts of 100k km, whichever comes first.

slave1

No AP but does have dual charger

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

The last time a sub GBP30k CPO Model S was posted up in the UK, it was sold very quickly.

That car doesn't have free supercharging though, but it does have Ultra High Fidelity Sound and Dual Chargers, which are desirable options. Also nice long warranty. 2 years or the guts of 100k km, whichever comes first.

"Free Supercharging" in the listing https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/used/5YJSB3H12EFP36660

copeyhagen

first time i have seen a cpo with the supercharging included, must be to sweeten the lack of AP and shift it on.

also, car wasnt there last night :P

Nedved85

jhegarty wrote: »

If anyone doesn't want AP this isn't too bad. (not unkel value , but not too bad).

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/used/5YJSB3H12EFP36660

2014 Model S85
42,109 miles

Warranty : 2 years / 57,891 miles

Free Supercharging

£29,800

Tempted.

The missus' home is 5 mins from a SuperCharger so it would get used once a month at the least.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

"Free Supercharging" in the listing https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/used/5YJSB3H12EFP36660

It does, but it has the wrong code per the VIN:

SC04 Pay Per Use Supercharging

And you and I know very well from direct experience that Tesla screws up this sort of stuff all the time My car was supposed to have Nokian wintertyres on it, but instead had almost new Michelin summertyres. I do have free supercharging, but there was no mention of it in the ad.

Free supercharging has very little value realistically for most people in Ireland unless they live near a supercharger or drive past one very regularly. Or plan to take the car on massive continental European driving holidays. If I were Nedved85 and the car having free supercharging for life would be a material part of the total cost of ownership calculations, I would be careful though.

unkel

copeyhagen wrote: »

first time i have seen a cpo with the supercharging included, must be to sweeten the lack of AP and shift it on.

If you read my thread

What unkel got next


we discussed it. It looks like early cars (up to about 2015) came with supercharging for life that stays with the car. From a legal point of view, Tesla can't simply take that away from the car when taking ownership of the car and selling it on second hand. This was the case with my car, and in all likeliness is the case with this car.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

From a legal point of view, Tesla can't simply take that away from the car when taking ownership of the car and selling it on second hand.

Why cant they do it legally?
If the car comes back into Tesla stock they can do anything they like (since they own it and have no contract with anyone at that point) as long as they advertise it appropriately when they put it back up for sale.

unkel

Did you read my thread? I spent a bit of time researching this and, although I can't say it with 100% certainty, my conclusion was that the free supercharging was for the life of the car, and stayed with the car, not with the buyer / owner. It was advertised as such at the time.

ELM327

It was with the car and not with the driver at that time.
This changed in 2016/17. However, there is no one that suffers a loss if Tesla own the car and withdraw free supercharging when in their ownership.

The only way it would be breach of contract is if someone suffers a measurable loss. Who loses? The prior owner who no longer owns the car, or the next owner who bought the car with no free supercharging as per advert?

Kcross is making the same point as I did last time. Now, obviously for one reason or another Tesla seem to include free supercharging - only on non AP cars - when selling it. I bet you won't find me a CPO car with AP and Free SuC.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Did you read my thread?

10 pages... no, sorry!
Can you point me to the post where you detail your analysis?

unkel wrote: »

I spent a bit of time researching this and, although I can't say it with 100% certainty, my conclusion was that the free supercharging was for the life of the car, and stayed with the car, not with the buyer / owner. It was advertised as such at the time.

Can you summarise how you came to that conclusion.

I cant see how Tesla would be legally obliged to leave it with the car. Its their car, they can add/subtract whatever features they wish when its in their name. They even have form for doing that with OTA updates for other things, no reason why Supercharging is any different.

Whether they decide, for goodwill reasons or whatever, to leave it for subsequent owners is entirely up to them to decide but I would be amazed if you had the ability to sue them if they removed it before you bought it, and it was clearly advertised as not having free super charging when sold to you.