This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

ELM327

+1
I don't buy the legality argument. If they own the car they can do what they like with it.

They are leaving it for CPO cars that do not have AP and removing it for everyone else.

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

It was with the car and not with the driver at that time.
This changed in 2016/17. However, there is no one that suffers a loss if Tesla own the car and withdraw free supercharging when in their ownership.

The only way it would be breach of contract is if someone suffers a measurable loss. Who loses? The prior owner who no longer owns the car, or the next owner who bought the car with no free supercharging as per advert?

Kcross is making the same point as I did last time. Now, obviously for one reason or another Tesla seem to include free supercharging - only on non AP cars - when selling it. I bet you won't find me a CPO car with AP and Free SuC.

Bingo.

Its just simply down to how they advertise it. If they buy the car back and advertise it as not having free supercharging then they are golden. The subsequent owner is entering a legal contract on those new terms.

It has no effect on the previous owner as they completed their contract when they traded it in.

Now, selling privately is a different story... if it was sold with free supercharging for life then those two private owners are entitled to that perk remaining. Its only when Tesla buy it back (via trade in) that things can be changed. Maybe thats where the confusion or different interpretations are (private vs Tesla sale)?

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Can you summarise how you came to that conclusion.

Mostly from research on Tesla forums. But as I said, I am not 100% certain. But I haven't heard any better counter arguments either.

So let's do this in a scientific way. My hypothesis is that a 2014 Tesla Model S that was originally sold with free supercharging for life (of the car), still has it even if sold second hand again by Telsa. And to make it easy, we will presume that can be read from the VIN supercharging code.

This hypothesis can easily be falsified. So anyone want to give that a try?

KCross wrote: »

If they buy the car back and advertise it as not having free supercharging then they are golden.

My car was sold second hand to me by Tesla without free supercharging. But the right code for free supercharging is in my VIN and I do actually have free supercharging. So no bingo there I'm afraid

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Mostly from research on Tesla forums. But as I said, I am not 100% certain. But I haven't heard any better counter arguments either.

So let's do this in a scientific way. My hypothesis is that a 2014 Tesla Model S that was originally sold with free supercharging for life (of the car), still has it even if sold second hand again by Telsa. And to make it easy, we will presume that can be read from the VIN supercharging code.

This hypothesis can easily be falsified. So anyone want to give that a try?

What you seem to be saying is that you have not seen it happen that Tesla remove it which is fine, but thats very different to saying that Tesla cannot legally remove free supercharging. Thats a mad notion, imo.

unkel wrote: »

My car was sold second hand to me by Tesla without free supercharging. But the right code for free supercharging is in my VIN and I do actually have free supercharging. So no bingo there I'm afraid

That doesnt support your argument though. That just means that Tesla have decided to leave free supercharging with your car. It again doesnt prove that they are legally obliged to leave it.

Put another way, if you buy a car secondhand from Tesla which was initially sold as new with free supercharging but you then buy it without free supercharging (and it was advertised as such) are you saying you have the right to sue Tesla for that? On the basis of what contract? Something Musk tweeted back in 2013?!


Its small change to Tesla to leave it for those early cars and it makes the car more desirable and good PR etc. Dont doubt for a second that if it suited Tesla to remove it that they couldnt/wouldnt. They absolutely could/would.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

What you seem to be saying is that you have not seen it happen that Tesla remove it which is fine but thats very different to saying that Tesla cannot legally remove free supercharging. Thats a mad notion, imo.

No, that's not what I am saying. It was my belief (like most others in here) that Tesla can and do take away free supercharging when they sell a used Model S on

But from my research I couldn't find any evidence that this happened for early cars (2014, 2015) that originally had free supercharging for life

So it looks like I was wrong (and most other posters in here too)

I challenge anyone in here to prove me wrong (and I will try it myself too!). Find a 2014 Tesla Model S that originally had free supercharging for life (and thus has it in the VIN), that now no longer has it. In the USA or in the UK, doesn't matter. If I'm wrong, this should be very easy to prove.

My own €22 bill for supercharging at Ballacolla briefly appeared again on my car's screen the other day as €0.00. And obviously nothing hit my account

KCross

unkel wrote: »

No, that's not what I am saying. It was my belief (like most others in here) that Tesla can and do take away free supercharging when they sell a used Model S on

But from my research I couldn't find any evidence that this happened for early cars (2014, 2015) that originally had free supercharging for life

So it looks like I was wrong (and most other posters in here too)

But that is what you are saying. You have even stated it again. You cant find examples of where Tesla have removed it..... so what?

Im not saying that Tesla do remove it either.

Im just saying that they could if they want to. Maybe they dont want to, as is their right.

Its really your use of the word "legal" that Im disputing...

"From a legal point of view, Tesla can't simply take that away from the car when taking ownership of the car and selling it on second hand."

copeyhagen

how do all the model s privately sold keep the supercharging, which according to the dealers is fully tranferable to new driver/owner.

it seems tesla just takes the sc off the ones that are traded back to them to save themselves a few pounds.

Nedved85

That car seems to have been snapped up now.

ELM327

Anyone here?
I saw it posted in a FB group too

Nedved85

Not me anyways. That signature red with the turbine alloys was a nice combo. Tan interior though ..

ELM327

Yes, it's the old rule, you gotta move fast to get the bargains. I know my CPO was listed less than 24hrs before I bought. Same for Unkel, and many others.

unkel

copeyhagen wrote: »

it seems tesla just takes the sc off the ones that are traded back to them to save themselves a few pounds.

You and others keep saying that, but I have seen zero evidence this has actually happened on early cars.

unkel

Nedved85 wrote: »

That car seems to have been snapped up now.

No, it is still there. You have to make sure your browser thinks you are based in the UK though

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

You and others keep saying that, but I have seen zero evidence this has actually happened on early cars.

They leave it on cars which do not have AP.

ELM327

Getting back to bargains
Cheap for a L40?

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/nissan-leaf/24556824

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

They leave it on cars which do not have AP.

Show me a 2014 / 2015 car then with AP that had free supercharging for life, but now no longer has it after being sold second hand by Tesla.

copeyhagen, your car maybe?

Nedved85

unkel wrote: »

No, it is still there. You have to make sure your browser thinks you are based in the UK though

Think it’s gone alright.

If you click buy on this link - it redirects back to the inventory.

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/used/5YJSB3H12EFP36660?redirect=no

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

Show me a 2014 / 2015 car then with AP that had free supercharging for life, but now no longer has it after being sold second hand by Tesla.

copeyhagen, your car maybe?

My car had free supercharging for life, but has been removed.

copeyhagen

unkel wrote: »

Show me a 2014 / 2015 car then with AP that had free supercharging for life, but now no longer has it after being sold second hand by Tesla.

copeyhagen, your car maybe?

mine was an ap1 2015 and had no sc for life from tesla.

i think (guessing) the non ap cars they sell themselves they put the free sc on to shift the cars.

my insuarance paid out 2 weeks ago ,so money is there, if that 2014 had ap on it i would have put the deposit on it probably.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

Getting back to bargains
Cheap for a L40?

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/nissan-leaf/24556824

I think that's the cheapest one we've seen on Irish plates yet? Looks to be a very low spec Visia though (the base model), although not quite sure as the ad doesn't say much.

Personally if that were my budget, I would buy a classic Ioniq. If I were a Dublin taxi driver, I would be tempted though.

unkel

copeyhagen wrote: »

mine was an ap1 2015 and had no sc for life from tesla.

What was your VIN and did you actually supercharge the car in Ireland and had to pay for it?

I'll keep an eye out for AP1 cars for you. Hope you can replace your car with something suitable soon.

unkel

Nedved85 wrote: »

Think it’s gone alright.

If you click buy on this link - it redirects back to the inventory.

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/used/5YJSB3H12EFP36660?redirect=no

It's gone now alright. Was it someone on here who bought it?

How long until we get the next CPO Model S for under GBP30k? No doubt it will be snapped up again too. A few months ago I expected these to drop in value (because of the UK reg changeover in March and the availability of new Model 3 cars over there), but it looks like that didn't happen. Not even the crisis seems to bring these prices down. For now anyway.

copeyhagen

unkel wrote: »

What was your VIN and did you actually supercharge the car in Ireland and had to pay for it?

I'll keep an eye out for AP1 cars for you. Hope you can replace your car with something suitable soon.

yeah, used the supercharge in castlebellingham a few times and paid for it.

cheers.

Black_Knight

I'd doubt it's someone here. Could be months before you could collect

slave1

My finger was hovering over the buy button but totally unsure of pickup scenario so wasn't me anyhow, if I was sure of pickup the deposit would have been paid

unkel

copeyhagen wrote: »

yeah, used the supercharge in castlebellingham a few times and paid for it.

cheers.

And do you have your VIN still somewhere?

slave1

ELM327 wrote: »

Getting back to bargains
Cheap for a L40?

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/nissan-leaf/24556824

Cheap alight, UK import by the looks but wouldn't bother me, just not sure on those batteries

copeyhagen

unkel wrote: »

And do you have your VIN still somewhere?

5YJSB7V26FF091257

unkel

SC04 Pay Per Use Supercharging

Your car never had free supercharging, even when new.

copeyhagen

unkel wrote: »

SC04 Pay Per Use Supercharging

Your car never had free supercharging, even when new.

so the vin would have to have the sc04 in it?