Religion may be out of core curriculum for primary schools

Hotblack Desiato

Bzzt. Wrong. Nobody was asked in the census what form of schooling they'd prefer.

Parents using the current schools is not an endorsement of them, they do not have a free choice in the vast majority of cases.

Overwhelming demand/oversubscription for ET schools indicates a great deal of dissatisfaction with the religious patronage system.

Hotblack Desiato

J C wrote: »

The last published census (of 2011) indicated a religious affiliation to various forms of Christianity of about 90% and if we include other theists/non-religious it approaches 100% !!!:)

Note:- atheists and agnostics between them accounted for only 0.165%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

People who tick 'no religion' are atheists by definition.

Any write-in option is going to score way less than a tick-box option. In any case, atheism is not a religion so I ticked 'no religion'.

Lying is a sin in your religion, isn't it?

Hotblack Desiato

J C wrote: »

... having a secular state and a proportion of schools with a religious ethos aren't mutually exclusive.

96% is hardly 'a proportion' now is it?

J C

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

96% is hardly 'a proportion' now is it?

it isn't ... but talk about every state-funded school excluding religion from its premises is definitely not 'a proportion' either.:)

J C

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

People who tick 'no religion' are atheists by definition.

not so ... many born again Christians claim to have no religion ... instead they have a saving faith in Jesus Christ.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Any write-in option is going to score way less than a tick-box option. In any case, atheism is not a religion so I ticked 'no religion'.

0.165% Atheists and Agnostics is tiny no matter how you try to explain it.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Lying is a sin in your religion, isn't it?

... lying is a sin according to my Faith ... I'm not religious.:)

Hotblack Desiato

J C wrote: »

not so ... many born again Christians claim to have no religion ... instead they have a saving faith in Jesus Christ.

0.165% Atheists and Agnostics is tiny no matter how you try to explain it.

... lying is a sin according to my Faith ... I'm not religious.:)

You're still a liar because in 2011 7.6% ticked 'no religion' so to claim that theism 'approaches 100%' of the Irish population is nothing other than a lie. It's a falsehood, you know it's a falsehood, we know it's a falsehood. Why do you bother? Why did you start bothering minutes after another prominent disruptor of this forum was banned?

J C wrote: »

it isn't ... but talk about every state-funded school excluding religion from its premises is definitely not 'a proportion' either.:)

Who is talking about that?

The study of religion is compulsory in all schools in Ireland and the proposed 'ethics, religion and beliefs' syllabus will maintain that.

Let's all study religions and see them for what they truly are. It ain't pretty.

Also anyone who claims to have religious faith has a religion. It might be a religion specific to that one person, it might be a belief shared by millions of members of a church, but it's still a religious belief.

muirsin

Only read part of thread but Religion is probably one of the key subjects.At Sacrament time this is best seen when it is probably the subject most enjoyed by parents , pupils , and school community. It brings families together . It gives pupils a sense of self-confidence and gives schools a chance to portray all that is best in their respective settings.
Pupils not partaking can enjoy and be part as much or as little as they wish. The modern curriculum is integrated in best sense of the word. It combines art craft drama oral language environmental studies social studies history and much much more.
Obviously this is not always a fashionable view point but it is the reality if we take the time to explore the subject.

Hotblack Desiato

muirsin wrote: »

Only read part of thread but Religion is probably one of the key subjects.At Sacrament time this is best seen when it is probably the subject most enjoyed by parents , pupils , and school community. It brings families together . It gives pupils a sense of self-confidence and gives schools a chance to portray all that is best in their respective settings.
Pupils not partaking can enjoy and be part as much or as little as they wish. The modern curriculum is integrated in best sense of the word. It combines art craft drama oral language environmental studies social studies history and much much more.
Obviously this is not always a fashionable view point but it is the reality if we take the time to explore the subject.

Really? Where's your evidence that it's 'most enjoyed'? Most endured would be more like it.

In my kids' school religion is being opted out by more and more families. Many didn't know it was possible until they saw others do it. It's a Church of Ireland school, perhaps 25% (if that) of parents are members of that church. The only options where we live are that school or english RC or gaelscoil RC.

Part of the day my arse. There were kids in my child no.1's class doing communion (even though their parents had gone out of their way to enrol them in a CoI school, go figure) but nobody invited us, and we wouldn't have gone anyway. It's an RC rite of passage, in this country one passed off as normal for all kids but not all kids are RC. Why would I or anyone in my family want to go to a CoI or jewish or muslim ritual? Why would any of us want to go to an RC ritual? We had enough of the latter forced upon us as kids.

ETs are proof that excellent education need not pander to religion. We are hoping to get our kids into a jointly managed ET/ETB secondary slightly outside of our area. Despite living in a large Dublin suburb, there are NO non-religious primary schools here and there are NO non-RC secondary schools here. To add insult to injury all the RC secondaries are single-sex. This is an anachronism one might only expect in a muslim country. Universities are not single-sex, workplaces are not single-sex, schools of this nature do not prepare pupils for the real world and inevitably perpetuate sexist gender roles through subject choice and culture/expectations. I want my kids to excel and fulfil their ambitions. The sexist, religion-soaked Irish education model is designed to make them cower and conform.

J C

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

You're still a liar because in 2011 7.6% ticked 'no religion' so to claim that theism 'approaches 100%' of the Irish population is nothing other than a lie. It's a falsehood, you know it's a falsehood, we know it's a falsehood.

Where did I say theism approaches 100%?
... and your erroneous and un-parliamentary language doesn't become you.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Why do you bother? Why did you start bothering minutes after another prominent disruptor of this forum was banned?

I genuinely don't know what you are talking about.
... but I would point out that we are all somewhat 'bothered' by people with different views/opinions to our own ... and therefore if being 'bothered' by other people was a reason to ban them ... everybody on every forum would be banned on the Boards.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

The study of religion is compulsory in all schools in Ireland and the proposed 'ethics, religion and beliefs' syllabus will maintain that.

Let's all study religions and see them for what they truly are. It ain't pretty.

The Christian Faith is beautiful ... and logical.

PopePalpatine

muirsin wrote: »

Only read part of thread but Religion is probably one of the key subjects.At Sacrament time this is best seen when it is probably the subject most enjoyed by parents , pupils , and school community. It brings families together . It gives pupils a sense of self-confidence and gives schools a chance to portray all that is best in their respective settings.
[...]
Obviously this is not always a fashionable view point but it is the reality if we take the time to explore the subject.

You could start by actually explaining how including religious sacraments in the school curriculum brings families together, gives pupils self-confidence and gives schools a chance to present themselves well to the community, and how those sacraments are unique in doing those things.

J C

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Also anyone who claims to have religious faith has a religion. It might be a religion specific to that one person, it might be a belief shared by millions of members of a church, but it's still a religious belief.

If your definition of religion is faith in the existence of God(s) then Atheism, as a faith in the non-existence of God(s), is also a religion.

Hotblack Desiato

J C wrote: »

If your definition of religion is faith in the existence of God(s) then Atheism, as a faith in the non-existence of God(s), is also a religion.

Of for flip's sake. Do I really need to explain this in words of only one syllable for you?

A-the-ism is la-ck of be-li-ef. It is not a be-le-if that no go-ds ex-i-st.

Hotblack Desiato

J C wrote: »

Where did I say theism approaches 100%?p

Is your memory that short? Really??

J C wrote: »

The last published census (of 2011) indicated a religious affiliation to various forms of Christianity of about 90% and if we include other theists/non-religious it approaches 100% !!!:)

But why did you include 'non-religious' as a whole if you only intended to include non-organised theists? Those who I and most others would contend are in fact religious.

To say that the sum of religious people and non-religious people is 100% of humanity is a tautology, to say the least. I'd have to question what value that adds to any discussion.

Yet again I question your good faith in discussion in this forum.

The Christian Faith is beautiful ... and logical.

You may consider it beautiful, and that's your right. I and many others consider it far from logical however.
How can faith be logical? If it's logical, it's not faith, it's fact.

J C

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Of for flip's sake. Do I really need to explain this in words of only one syllable for you?

A-the-ism is la-ck of be-li-ef. It is not a be-le-if that no go-ds ex-i-st.

Sounds like they both mean the same thing ... a lack of belief in god(s) sounds suspiciously like a belief that no god(s) exist.

Hotblack Desiato

J C wrote: »

Sounds like they both mean the same thing ... a lack of belief in god(s) sounds suspiciously like a belief that no god(s) exist.

I don't believe in any god humanity has yet proposed. However a god may make themselves known at some point in the future, and I may therefore believe in that god due to the evidence of their existence.

You're wrong. QED.

J C

wrote:

Originally Posted by J C
Where did I say theism approaches 100%?p

Hotblack Desiato
Is your memory that short? Really??

Quote:
Originally Posted by J C
The last published census (of 2011) indicated a religious affiliation to various forms of Christianity of about 90% and if we include other theists/non-religious it approaches 100% !!!

But why did you include 'non-religious' unless you intended to include non-organised theists?

Yet again I question your good faith in discussion in this forum.

0.165% A & As is a vanishingly small number ... however you look at it.:)

Hotblack Desiato

Yet again you lie and ignore the valid points raised. I can only call that a Norwegian sous-bridge dwelling position.

J C

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I don't believe in any god humanity has yet proposed. However a god may make themselves known at some point in the future, and I may therefore believe in that god due to the evidence of their existence.

... and then you'll technically cease to be an Atheist.:)

Hotblack Desiato

J C wrote: »

... and then you'll technically cease to be an Atheist.:)

Well duh. Richard Dawkins has said the same.

I would have thought you'd regard an open mind as a positive thing! Just because I regard the evidence put forward for existing religions as nonsense doesn't mean I've already decided my point of view on unknown evidence yet to be presented, how could I?

J C

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Well duh. Richard Dawkins has said the same.

I would have thought you'd regard an open mind as a positive thing! Just because I regard the evidence put forward for existing religions as nonsense doesn't mean I've already decided my point of view on unknown evidence yet to be presented, how could I?

... so you're one of the 0.08% Agnostics in Ireland in 2011, then ?

Hotblack Desiato

You lie again, there was no tick-box for 'agnostic atheist' and in any case that is not a religion.

So as I explained earlier, I ticked 'no religion'.

Your lack of engagement with the more, shall we say, challenging points raised - is noted.

slavetothegrind

Kind of jumping in here, i don't think most people not of the faith have a huge issue with the ethos of the school i think it's more with the exclusionary policy.
That is fundamentally wrong according to all christian teachings i was brought up with.
When i went to school we had two or three people who were not RC, one a turkish muslim, he went to the library during our religion classes and no harm done!
The Jesus i learned about was all welcoming and all inclusive! Sadly his modern deciples are far more selective....

Hotblack Desiato

Shame he was a myth, but there were some good ideas there I'll agree - many of which pre-exist by millennia the christian faith - but few 'christrian' countries implement them.

A huge amount of the objection to religious schooling would be removed if they removed discrimination in admission. They appear to be too stupid to realise this.

There's already a constitutional right to opt out of religious instruction, so sometimes Atheist Ireland has to remind a particular school of that.

I'd still much prefer a completely inclusive unisex education system. Education about religions for all, instruction in religion after hours for those whose parents opted into it. ET has been operating this model for the last 39 years. There is no need for J C and the likes to proclaim it as some sort of Soviet statism, something I would also find deeply distasteful. He knows this, I know this, we all know why this is being stirred.

Pherekydes

J C wrote: »

The last published census (of 2011) indicated a religious affiliation to various forms of Christianity of about 90% and if we include other theists/non-religious it approaches 100% !!!:)

Note:- atheists and agnostics between them accounted for only 0.165%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

The question in the census is about religion, not about belief in god, so many atheists would have ticked 'No Religion' on the census. Why then would you include non-religious in the above figure?

It might occur to you that if you add the religious to the non-religious you should get 100% of the population!!!!

BrianG23

From discussions with...well almost everyone i've met, no one even has a clue of the difference between Catholicism and Christianity in Ireland. A lot who are reared Catholic claims to be catholic yet doesn't follow the teachings or even know what they mean, jump to church at Christmas because thats what ye do. Its kinda pathetic at this point imo. Using a consensus when the vast majority don't even know what they believe in is laughable.

Don't mean to generalize btw i'm sure their are real Christians here, just that the vast majority i've met from young and old don't really know what the difference between Catholics and Protestants are. Just that we are Irish Catholics and the English are protestants. As a matter of fact when I was thought History for leaving cert a discussion basically came down to the teacher telling us that Martin Luther just disagreed with Christian rules and changed it. He forgot to mention Catholicism added its own teachings on top of the bible in the first place or how the divide came about. While all us 16 year olds had a snigger at how stupid the protestants were. What a ****ing joke!

Really, religion should be a personal investigation and self thought as it was originally intended. Its not something to be thought by 'teachers' especially in an academic environment or something that's based around gaining life skills.

Religion is more important than that - be you an atheist or not -

- In short, vast majority identify with whatever they were brought up with. They have not bothered and do not care enough to investigate their religion themselves <--- That in itself is pretty ****ing dreadful for a population that claims 86% catholic. Surely that is not what god intended

looksee

Really, religion should be a personal investigation and self thought as it was originally intended. Its not something to be thought by 'teachers' especially in an academic environment or something that's based around gaining life skills.

When I finally deciphered this I realised that I agree with the thrust of what you are saying. Unfortunately you have pretty much changed the sense of it by using 'thought' when you mean 'taught'. It may help to remember

teach - taught; think - thought

Having said that, Christianity was always a taught religion, Jesus did precisely that, and sent his disciples to continue the process.

BrianG23

Yeah, but not through a forced education system, its one thing preaching the word of god. Its another altogether to force it down a generation of children who haven't a clue where their arse is yet! If anything, forcing someone to sit through it 'normalizes' it to the point that its just another thing that comes with your culture or even worse just doing it to fit in(I have seen whole communities at this, it is literally the opposite of what each religion teaches!)

While i'm not a believer myself, I see religion as something important for a person to look into themselves and decide themselves what they believe or what they will follow. The worst case of culture based religion is Jihads and Crusades. Where somehow a sovereign figurehead has managed to manipulate a population to go to war in the name of religion. Surely that is the most blasphemous possible outcome?

I mean i've had friends ask why I didn't go to church at Christmas. Sorry Mr prophet....who attends church once a year because mammy will give out to you if you don't. Now get back to popping pills and getting locked for Stephens day you dashing thing you. I mean **** your baptized from a few months old before you even can comprehend what that is? Isn't baptism supposed to self decided thing? To wash your sins away? But somehow its become normalized to the point that its lost its purpose(to wash away sins later in life and try again?)

Am I wrong? Serious question i'm out of touch with religion now

Quandary

I have taught in 4 different primary schools in Dublin over the past 6 years. All of them were Catholic ethos schools. One school was a very middle class one and the others were in disadvantaged areas.

In that time I have had parent teacher meetings with over 140 parents and not one of them asked about how their child was getting on in Religion. Some particularly enthusiastic parents were keen that their kid was speaking and practising Gaeilge but not one of them asked about how their child was doing in Religion.

One of the years I taught was a 6 th confirmation class, and out of the two 6th classes in our school containing nearly 60 kids, only 3 of them had been to mass in the past year. During a discussion one day in class, over half of the class claimed that their parents didn't believe in God so why should they. Of course I said that if they didn't believe in God then they really shouldn't be making their confirmation. This was then met with the fact that they stood to make a lot of money and wanted to get new suits/dresses etc...

I don't care what any census statistics claim when it comes to religious beliefs because in my first hand experience, over 90% of families appear to not care about Catholicism and half of them would appear to have no belief in God whatsoever.

It would appear to me at least, that the majority of parents wouldn't be bothered in the slightest if religious instruction was removed from schools.

This of course is only my experience of Catholic ethos primary schools. I would be very interested to hear what other primary school teachers have experienced.

Bass Reeves

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Shame he was a myth, .

Really shows your standard of education or again maybe your capability to understand. It is accepted by the vast majority of historian's that reserch or study this period that Jesus existed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus


So we can accept that he was not a myth

looksee

I have no problems accepting that Jesus as a human existed. His role as son of god and doer of miracles was mythical though.

J C

slavetothegrind wrote: »

Kind of jumping in here, i don't think most people not of the faith have a huge issue with the ethos of the school i think it's more with the exclusionary policy.

What 'exclusionary policy?
... and I think that you will find that there are a small, but very vocal, minority of anti-theists who have a very big problem with the ethos of Irish church-run schools.
... such a big problem that they want all church-run schools to be taken over and run as secular irreligious schools.

J C

Pherekydes wrote: »

The question in the census is about religion, not about belief in god, so many atheists would have ticked 'No Religion' on the census. Why then would you include non-religious in the above figure?

It might occur to you that if you add the religious to the non-religious you should get 100% of the population!!!!

I accept that there may be some Atheists/Agnostics who ticked the no-religion box ... and didn't go on to specify that they were Atheists/Agnostics ... just like there were some Christians who did the same.
Either way the total of Atheist, Agnostic and 'no religion' categories still only amounts to only about 6% ... which is a tiny minority, in anybodies book ... and only a minority of this 6% are likely to be actively anti-theist, as distinct from being liberal Atheist or Agnostic.
It's certainly not sufficient to completely overturn how our children are taught religion, just because less than 6% don't believe in any religion ... and want to oppose and destroy all religion!!!

Advbrd

Personally, I can't get over how the great flood (and other nonsense) is being taught as fact which is happening in my son's school.

J C

looksee wrote: »

I have no problems accepting that Jesus as a human existed. His role as son of god and doer of miracles was mythical though.

You're quite entitled to your opinion ... but we'll have to agree to differ on this.

J C

Advbrd wrote: »

Personally, I can't get over how the great flood (and other nonsense) is being taught as fact which is happening in my son's school.

The mega-thread on the Christianity Forum is discussing and providing evidence for this very issue.

Advbrd

J C wrote: »

The mega-thread on the Christianity Forum is discussing and providing evidence for this very issue.

Actually, it is not.

Dick phelan

i think religion is a good thing to be thought in schools, i don't mean the way it currently is though, it would be good for kids to actually examine a wide range of religions not just teaching them and going through the rituals of the Catholic faith, it is important for kids to understand about different faiths, after all weather we like it or not religion plays a major role in the world today and plays a part in a number of different issues like conflict ect, That religious education is one i could support as having no clue about the complexity of different faiths means a child will lack an understanding of other things however the current setup of attempting to indoctranate children into one specific faith and having them take part in the rituals of the Catholic Church needs to end, most people don't go to mass now and many have no faith at all. Educate about different religions but stop indoctrination.

J C

Quandary wrote: »

I have taught in 4 different primary schools in Dublin over the past 6 years. All of them were Catholic ethos schools. One school was a very middle class one and the others were in disadvantaged areas.

In that time I have had parent teacher meetings with over 140 parents and not one of them asked about how their child was getting on in Religion. Some particularly enthusiastic parents were keen that their kid was speaking and practising Gaeilge but not one of them asked about how their child was doing in Religion.

One of the years I taught was a 6 th confirmation class, and out of the two 6th classes in our school containing nearly 60 kids, only 3 of them had been to mass in the past year. During a discussion one day in class, over half of the class claimed that their parents didn't believe in God so why should they. Of course I said that if they didn't believe in God then they really shouldn't be making their confirmation. This was then met with the fact that they stood to make a lot of money and wanted to get new suits/dresses etc...

I don't care what any census statistics claim when it comes to religious beliefs because in my first hand experience, over 90% of families appear to not care about Catholicism and half of them would appear to have no belief in God whatsoever.

It would appear to me at least, that the majority of parents wouldn't be bothered in the slightest if religious instruction was removed from schools.

This of course is only my experience of Catholic ethos primary schools. I would be very interested to hear what other primary school teachers have experienced.

An interesting insight all right ... and I have little doubt that what you say is true.
However, I think that what we are looking at here is a combination of 'practicing' and 'cultural' Roman Catholics ... but if push came to shove on religion in schools both sets of people would oppose the removal of religion from school.
I have been amazed at how quickly supposed 'lapsed' Catholics will come to the defense of arcane (and IMO invalid) pieces of Roman Catholic theology.
... and I think they will react even more vehemently to anti-theists if they make no secret of the fact that they are opposing and attacking religion in general and the Roman Catholic Church in particular ... and want to kick out the church and take over their schools.

J C

Advbrd wrote: »

Actually, it is not.

Either way, the debate is over there - and not here.:)

recedite

J C wrote: »

However, I think that what we are looking at here is a combination of 'practicing' and 'cultural' Roman Catholics ... and if push came to shove on religion in schools both sets of people would oppose the removal of religion from school.

Good point, Jeremy Corbyn.
But how long can a culture last for, if it is not being practiced?
1st generation devout catholics.
2nd generation lapsed catholics.
3rd generation...?

J C

Dick phelan wrote: »

i think religion is a good thing to be thought in schools, i don't mean the way it currently is though, it would be good for kids to actually examine a wide range of religions not just teaching them and going through the rituals of the Catholic faith, it is important for kids to understand about different faiths, after all weather we like it or not religion plays a major role in the world today and plays a part in a number of different issues like conflict ect, That religious education is one i could support as having no clue about the complexity of different faiths means a child will lack an understanding of other things however the current setup of attempting to indoctranate children into one specific faith and having them take part in the rituals of the Catholic Church needs to end, most people don't go to mass now and many have no faith at all. Educate about different religions but stop indoctrination.

I agree that a broad liberal education must encompass information about all faiths and none.
... but this shouldn't mean that particular schools cannot also teach children about the faith under which each particular school was set up.

Advbrd

J C wrote: »

Either way, the debate is over there - and not here.:)

Well, the debate here appears to be on whether religion should remain on the core curriculum for primary schools. What they are teaching feeds into that. If they are trying to teach that nonsense such as the great flood actually happened, then it should be removed from the curriculum.

J C

recedite wrote: »

Good point, Jeremy Corbyn.
But how long can a culture last for, if it is not being practiced?
1st generation devout catholics.
2nd generation lapsed catholics.
3rd generation...?

... 3rd generation, perhaps born again Christians / devout Roman Catholics ... because the schools continued to teach the Christian Faith ...
... or Atheists, because Atheists/anti-theists took over the school system, like happened in Russia.
Who knows?

J C

Advbrd wrote: »

Well, the debate here appears to be on whether religion should remain on the core curriculum for primary schools. What they are teaching feeds into that. If they are trying to teach that nonsense such as the great flood actually happened, then it should be removed from the curriculum.

The content of the religion classes is a matter for the competent church authorities in a church-run school.

Of course the science curriculum should train students to engage in critical thinking ... and go where the evidence leads !!!:)

Advbrd

J C wrote: »

The content of the religion classes is a matter for the competent church authorities in a church-run school.

Of course the science curriculum should train students to engage in critical thinking ... and go where the evidence leads !!!:)

If the first point is taken at face value, the content of the religion class in this case calls into question the competence of the church authorities.

I agree with the second.

J C

Advbrd wrote: »

If the first point is taken at face value, the content of the religion class in this case calls into question the competence of the church authorities.

I don't think so, but you are obvoiusly entitled to your opinion. The church authorities may have been looking at the mega-thread on the QT !!!

Advbrd wrote: »

I agree with the second.

Good.:)

Hotblack Desiato

J C wrote: »

I accept that there may be some Atheists/Agnostics who ticked the no-religion box

As they have no religion, why would they do other? This is your usual stuff and nonsense. You still dodge the questions I asked you, but that's expected.

Hotblack Desiato

I despise the spineless teaching profession in this country, who are willing to be public servants paid by the state when it suits them, and appointees of bishops when it suits them. Spineless cowards and frauds, most of them don't believe what they peddle to kids but they do it to keep their job.
The teachers' unions could stop this nonsense in the morning if they had a spine. They have shamefully ignored their fellow members who fell foul of the fascists in frocks.

J C

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I despise the spineless teaching profession in this country, who are willing to be public servants paid by the state when it suits them, and appointees of bishops when it suits them. Spineless cowards and frauds, most of them don't believe what they peddle to kids but they do it to keep their job.
The teachers' unions could stop this nonsense in the morning if they had a spine. They have shamefully ignored their fellow members who fell foul of the fascists in frocks.

They are legally obliged to do what the church authorities require of them in relation to religious education and what the state requires of them in regard to everything else.
Are you suggesting that they should be law-breakers?
... and if and when the atheist/anti-theist lobby gets to take over all schools, do you think they will tolerate any teachers who might try to continue teach religious instruction in schools (in contravention of the law, at that time)?

Your comments are a 'cheap shot' at dedicated law-abiding teachers simply doing their job to the best of their abilities.:(

If your intolerant comments are in any way representitive of the attitudes of the Atheist/anti-theist lobby for the removal of religion from schools, then Christians will find themselves in a 'very cold house' ... in the new secular model of school that ye are proposing for Ireland.

J C

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

As they have no religion, why would they do other? This is your usual stuff and nonsense. You still dodge the questions I asked you, but that's expected.

Because, although people of no religion amount to 6% of the population, Atheists and Agnostics are only 0.16% ... Atheism/agnosticism doesn't have a monopoly on being non-religious.