Rifle License

sparky80

HI All,
I just want to know before I start to pursue this any further. I want to join a local gun club and buy a rifle.
I've had my eye on a Erma Werke .22LR and it's Semi auto I believe. Is there simply no way I'd get a License for that herexecutive in the Republic? and should I just stick to browsing .22 bolt action??
I should point out that although I have used a rifle before I have never had a license for one.
Any tips are welcome.

clivej

sparky80 wrote: »

HI All,
I just want to know before I start to pursue this any further. I want to join a local gun club and buy a rifle.
I've had my eye on a Erma Werke .22LR and it's Semi auto I believe. Is there simply no way I'd get a License for that here executive in the Republic? and should I just stick to browsing .22 bolt action??
I should point out that although I have used a rifle before I have never had a license for one.
Any tips are welcome.

I just took a look at the Erma Werke .22LR and I can't see why you wouldn't get your license for it. As long as it's not an automatic self-loading repeating rifle, just a semi-auto. Semi-auto means one trigger pull for one shot only.

If you can show good reason for use, and you are not and have not been in trouble with the law.
You will need a couple of permission letters that allow you shoot on land or join a club or range for target shooting

sparky80

Thanks Clivej,
I'm gonna join a local club before purchasing that rifle or similar before applying for a license for said rifle as I believe is the process. Do you recommend gunstore.ie for firearms and ammo?

clivej

sparky80 wrote: »

Thanks Clivej,
I'm gonna join a local club before purchasing that rifle or similar before applying for a license for said rifle as I believe is the process. Do you recommend gunstore.ie for firearms and ammo?

Gunstore.ie has a good selection of firearms, a lot of shotguns. Not a big selection of ammo. Nice to deal with. Also try Paul O'Hallaran in Drangan in Co. Tipp. Good range of firearms and ammo.

I deal a lot with gunshop.ie and harbourguns,ie 2 of my local dealers now.

Luckysasha

Any particular reason you have your eye on this rifle? Looking at the pic it seems it would be hard to mount a scope or bipod too, both of which are really useful in rifle shooting. Just using iron sights I'd say your are limiting yourself to 40 or 50 yards if even that. Have a look around at other rifle set ups before you choose. If price is a factor there are good second hand rifles out there many with scopes included.

Cass

It looks to be essentially the same as a Ruger 10/22. So once the mags are 10 rounds or less then its easy enough to license. Any more than 10 rounds and you need a restricted license and that, while completely doable, is a lot of trouble for a 22lr.

Just checked again and i see on gunstore's website they say it comes with a 15 round mag. This makes it a restricted firearm. Again it can be licensed, restricted does not mean prohibited, but a Ruger 10/22 will do the exact same job, is much easier to customise, better resale, and with the factory 10 round mags is unrestricted.

Also the Ruger 10/22 is cheaper than the Erma. Pries seem to be in the €450 mark.

FISMA.

+1 to CliveJ and LuckySasha.

However, it is a beautiful rifle!

Reminiscent of the M1 Carbine. I could see how a purist or traditionalist, like myself, would love one.

Perhaps, the rear peep sight comes off for mounts and glass?

clivej

Get the dealer to restrict the mag to 10 rounds max before he sells it to you.

Free-2-Flow

A friend of mine applied for his 1st licence a few years ago, it was a semi auto Ruger 10/22, didn't have any problems getting it.

Bad_alibi

FISMA. wrote: »

+1 to CliveJ and LuckySasha.

However, it is a beautiful rifle!

Reminiscent of the M1 Carbine. I could see how a purist or traditionalist, like myself, would love one.

Perhaps, the rear peep sight comes off for mounts and glass?

Can't you get an M1 conversion kit for the 10/22 I'm sure I seen it somewhere.

sparky80

Cass wrote: »

It looks to be essentially the same as a Ruger 10/22. So once the mags are 10 rounds or less then its easy enough to license. Any more than 10 rounds and you need a restricted license and that, while completely doable, is a lot of trouble for a 22lr.

Just checked again and i see on gunstore's website they say it comes with a 15 round mag. This makes it a restricted firearm. Again it can be licensed, restricted does not mean prohibited, but a Ruger 10/22 will do the exact same job, is much easier to customise, better resale, and with the factory 10 round mags is unrestricted.

Also the Ruger 10/22 is cheaper than the Erma. Pries seem to be in the €450 mark.

Thanks Cassington, I read that In the firearmsame legislation about the mag capacity so I will avoid that, it'll only cause hassle I reckon. I'll check out the rugers.
Am I right in thinking that the process is you purchase a firearm or rifle in my case, you receive a proof of purchase doc from dealer which you then present to local Super to apply for licence. If not approved the dealer reimburse you??? Is that the process generally??

sparky80

Cass wrote: »

It looks to be essentially the same as a Ruger 10/22. So once the mags are 10 rounds or less then its easy enough to license. Any more than 10 rounds and you need a restricted license and that, while completely doable, is a lot of trouble for a 22lr.

Just checked again and i see on gunstore's website they say it comes with a 15 round mag. This makes it a restricted firearm. Again it can be licensed, restricted does not mean prohibited, but a Ruger 10/22 will do the exact same job, is much easier to customise, better resale, and with the factory 10 round mags is unrestricted.

Also the Ruger 10/22 is cheaper than the Erma. Pries seem to be in the €450 mark.

Sorry for typo Cass!!

sparky80

Luckysasha wrote: »

Any particular reason you have your eye on this rifle? Looking at the pic it seems it would be hard to mount a scope or bipod too, both of which are really useful in rifle shooting. Just using iron sights I'd say your are limiting yourself to 40 or 50 yards if even that. Have a look around at other rifle set ups before you choose. If price is a factor there are good second hand rifles out there many with scopes included.

I think I'm drawn to it purely out of nostalgic reasons.
My auld lad had a .22 from his FCA days. A Lee Enfield I think. Weighted about 40lb from what I remember plus the sights were pissed and firing pin was failing so he just gave it up.

Luckysasha

That's fair enough reason and a bit of nostalgia about the house is no bad thing. But if it's not going to do the job without spending more money on a modifications to fit accessories etc is it really what you want to spend your money on. There are ready to go starter rifles out there with scopes, bipods, mods etc included in the price. I have a CZ 455 which came new with a 4-12x50 scope , a bipod and moderator for €600. So there are options out there. Also bear in mind you will need a safe which will run you about €120 and the controversial competence course will have to be done for another €50 or so. Maybe visit a few dealers and see if they could do you a package deal on the above and a bit of guidance with the paperwork is always welcome. Best of luck with whichever route you go down

sparky80

FISMA. wrote: »

+1 to CliveJ and LuckySasha.

However, it is a beautiful rifle!

Reminiscent of the M1 Carbine. I could see how a purist or traditionalist, like myself, would love one.

Perhaps, the rear peep sight comes off for mounts and glass?

Yeah that was the idea FISMA, they modelled it on the original WW2 M1. I just think it looks fantastic myself.. In a sort of naive way I feel that hight powered scopes are cheating particularly when it comes to hunting as the target itself doesn't have any scopes etc. Ibut on the other hand I do respect that despite how good a shot you may be you'd be really limited in range with just iron sights as someone mentioned.

sparky80

Luckysasha wrote: »

That's fair enough reason and a bit of nostalgia about the house is no bad thing. But if it's not going to do the job without spending more money on a modifications to fit accessories etc is it really what you want to spend your money on. There are ready to go starter rifles out there with scopes, bipods, mods etc included in the price. I have a CZ 455 which came new with a 4-12x50 scope , a bipod and moderator for €600. So there are options out there. Also bear in mind you will need a safe which will run you about €120 and the controversial competence course will have to be done for another €50 or so. Maybe visit a few dealers and see if they could do you a package deal on the above and a bit of guidance with the paperwork is always welcome. Best of luck with whichever route you go down

All tips very welcome LuckySasha.. about that competence course, where can you complete one as I want to do one because itshe the responsible course and not just to satisfy the red-tape.
I was also looking at a lovely Cz .17 16" barrel at 580.. Nice piece.

Luckysasha

Most ranges and even some RFDs run the courses so best bet is to ring around. Some of them won't run the course until they have enough people so you may have to put your name down and wait a while, again a couple of phone calls should help you. If it's the .17hmr your looking at bear in mind most ranges only cater for .22 rifles so you could be limiting yourself to field work with the .17 but that's fine if that's the route your going down. On a side note the CZ 455 I have came in .22lr but I can buy a .17 hmr barrel for it and basically change the barrel from .22 to .17 depending on what I'm shooting. Extra barrel I think will run you about €250. Bear in mind if you have 2 barrels then you need 2 licenses one for each calibre.

sparky80

Luckysasha wrote: »

Most ranges and even some RFDs run the courses so best bet is to ring around. Some of them won't run the course until they have enough people so you may have to put your name down and wait a while, again a couple of phone calls should help you. If it's the .17hmr your looking at bear in mind most ranges only cater for .22 rifles so you could be limiting yourself to field work with the .17 but that's fine if that's the route your going down. On a side note the CZ 455 I have came in .22lr but I can buy a .17 hmr barrel for it and basically change the barrel from .22 to .17 depending on what I'm shooting. Extra barrel I think will run you about €250. Bear in mind if you have 2 barrels then you need 2 licenses one for each calibre.

Great tips. Thanks
I'll let you know what route I go down.

Cass

clivej wrote: »

Get the dealer to restrict the mag to 10 rounds max before he sells it to you.

Absolutely, but if the advert is right and the rifle is not produced anymore good luck finding spare mags or replacement ones if you loose the original.

sparky80 wrote: »

I read that In the firearmsame legislation about the mag capacity so I will avoid that, it'll only cause hassle I reckon. I'll check out the rugers.

There is nothing wrong with going for what you want, but the rifle you are looking at is either:
Restricted so a little harder to justify when the Chief Super asks about a Ruger 10/22
Unrestricted with mag blocked, but out of production and so hard to get spares for
Out of production also means no new parts and when you go to trade it you might get less than you think. SO its might be a necklace of a rifle.

Am I right in thinking that the process is you purchase a firearm or rifle in my case, you receive a proof of purchase doc from dealer which you then present to local Super to apply for licence.

Have a read of posts 5, 6, and 7 of this thread and it should cover all you need.

If not approved the dealer reimburse you??? Is that the process generally??

Be careful of this. This is something that has come up before.

Make sure you DO NOT pay the full amount. You pay a small deposit ONLY. This way if you get refused there is not real problem. Also make sure you discuss this with a dealer before even paying the deposit.

Some dealers will not issue refunds, and some will only issue part refunds as they believe they are entitled to hold onto some money for the time they hold the gun for the person while they apply for a license.

Don't be shy and make sure to hammer out the details of the money before paying anything, but again DO NOT pay the full asking price up front. Only a deposit until you get the license. Then if successful pay the balance when you have the license.

cerastes

Cass wrote: »

Absolutely, but if the advert is right and the rifle is not produced anymore good luck finding spare mags or replacement ones if you loose the original.

There is nothing wrong with going for what you want, but the rifle you are looking at is either:
Restricted so a little harder to justify when the Chief Super asks about a Ruger 10/22
Unrestricted with mag blocked, but out of production and so hard to get spares for
Out of production also means no new parts and when you go to trade it you might get less than you think. SO its might be a necklace of a rifle.

Have a read of posts 5, 6, and 7 of this thread and it should cover all you need.

Be careful of this. This is something that has come up before.

Make sure you DO NOT pay the full amount. You pay a small deposit ONLY. This way if you get refused there is not real problem. Also make sure you discuss this with a dealer before even paying the deposit.

Some dealers will not issue refunds, and some will only issue part refunds as they believe they are entitled to hold onto some money for the time they hold the gun for the person while they apply for a license.

Don't be shy and make sure to hammer out the details of the money before paying anything, but again DO NOT pay the full asking price up front. Only a deposit until you get the license. Then if successful pay the balance when you have the license.

Replacement new magazines are available, and the charging handle which is prone to cracking, there is also making German site that you can order bits and pieces

sparky80

sparky80 wrote: »

I think I'm drawn to it purely out of nostalgic reasons.
My auld lad had a .22 from his FCA days. A Lee Enfield I think. Weighted about 40lb from what I remember plus the sights were pissed and firing pin was failing so he just gave it up.

Correction, it was a .22 BSA

tac foley

This little ERMA carbine is an almost one-for-one replication of the original M1 carbine.

The Ruger 10/22 - in its original, plain-Jane wood stock and barrel band - is a 'fairly near-replication' of the M1 carbine that owes its tremendous sales history over the last fifty years to that fact.

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/other-long-arms/72977-got-me-freebie-almost-ruger-10-22-carbine.html

The Erma is ALWAYS going to pose spare-part problems, but the Ruger 10/22 - the MOST popular .22 s/a ever made by any company on the planet, will be easy to obtain any part for for the next couple of hundred years.

tac

sparky80

So after more research and tips from the folks on this forum I've come to a few conclusions. My choices have pretty much come down the Ruger 10/22 and the CZ 455. And there are plenty to choose from. I have seen some nice combos for the CZ including sights, bipods etc which bump up the cost but as I'm likely to go down the route on these upgrades it might worth while. I've also come across the thumbhole stock on some CZs which look beautiful but wouldn't be my exclusive choice. Ultimately there are so many options that I need to just start homing in on a few types and variables.
I'm going for a .22LR and my budget would be €500 +/- and I need to consider cost of joining a club, purchasing a safe etc
I'm still torn between bolt action and semi-auto.

Luckysasha

Visit a dealer who has a range and try them out. I had it in my head I wanted the thumbhole 455 but when I fired it I just couldn't take to it so I went for the standard one instead. It's purely down to personal choice.

goz83

I've a ruger 77/22 a year now. There is something VERY satisfying about cycling the bolt.

What ranges are you looking at joining?

sparky80

goz83 wrote: »

I've a ruger 77/22 a year now. There is something VERY satisfying about cycling the bolt.

What ranges are you looking at joining?

Looking at joining Hilltop in Newtown. It's the closest to me. They also have a shop on site with a decent range of rifles.

tac foley

Cass wrote: »

SO its might be a necklace of a rifle.

Cass, I'm thinking that you really mean 'albatross'...

There's been one hanging around on the rack in one of our local gun stores for maybe five years or more..

tac

yubabill1

sparky80 wrote: »

I'm going for a .22LR and my budget would be €500 +/- and I need to consider cost of joining a club, purchasing a safe etc
I'm still torn between bolt action and semi-auto.

2 pieces of - conflicting - advice;

a. It always feels better when you buy with the heart and feck the consequences

b. CZ will probably perform competitively straight out of the box, but the 10/22 may need some adjusting (i.e.; cost you something).

sparky80

yubabill1 wrote: »

2 pieces of - conflicting - advice;

a. It always feels better when you buy with the heart and feck the consequences

b. CZ will probably perform competitively straight out of the box, but the 10/22 may need some adjusting (i.e.; cost you something).

The CZ seemed to be mostly .17 at least those easily available to folks in Ireland. I'm steering away from .17 because the ammo is a lot more expensive than standard .22 and I don't want to be worrying about ammo consumption.
I'm going to try out a few rifles and get a feel for one I prefere then weigh it up against cost.

goz83

sparky80 wrote: »

The CZ seemed to be mostly .17 at least those easily available to folks in Ireland. I'm steering away from .17 because the ammo is a lot more expensive than standard .22 and I don't want to be worrying about ammo consumption.
I'm going to try out a few rifles and get a feel for one I prefere then weigh it up against cost.

There are plenty of CZ rifles available in .22 for sale. My preference would be ruger, but I am biased and have only fired a few rounds from a friends CZ. Another reason for avoiding a .17 if your main interest is target practice, is that some ranges will only allow .22 sub sonic rounds to be fired.

sparky80

goz83 wrote: »

There are plenty of CZ rifles available in .22 for sale. My preference would be ruger, but I am biased and have only fired a few rounds from a friends CZ. Another reason for avoiding a .17 if your main interest is target practice, is that some ranges will only allow .22 sub sonic rounds to be fired.

True, my main reason for sticking to the .22
I'm going to check out the Hilltop range in Newtown, Wicklow. Anyone a member or know or it?