Suspect Tenants subletting the living room.

Graham

davindub wrote: »

Sure if it works, but would you believe it yourself knowing that some weeks previously you were claiming there was someone sub-letting?

There would be no lie in the statement however you chose to interpret it. An entirely reasonable measure implemented in a manner such as not to disturb the tenants peaceful enjoyment.

davindub

Graham wrote: »

There would be no lie in the statement however you chose to interpret it. An entirely reasonable measure implemented in a manner such as not to disturb the tenants peaceful enjoyment.

But it is interpretation that is key? Its not proved beyond a reasonable doubt, its proved on a balance of probabilities.

But I assume we are talking about changing the locks after issuing notice regarding sub-letting or something similar? If the tenants found it peaceful, you would be unlikely to have to explain it to the RTB?

Even if you were being truthful, the risk is that the other version would be preferable to the tribunal?

Graham

davindub wrote: »

But it is interpretation that is key? Its not proved beyond a reasonable doubt, its proved on a balance of probabilities.

But I assume we are talking about changing the locks after issuing notice regarding sub-letting or something similar? If the tenants found it peaceful, you would be unlikely to have to explain it to the RTB?

Even if you were being truthful, the risk is that the other version would be preferable to the tribunal?

Of course there's a risk the rtb magic 8 ball will roll against a landlord.

Personally I'd go through the official notice/termination route.

athtrasna

Mod note
Davindub and Graham please take this conversation to pm as it is derailing this thread and is off putting to other potential contributors.

Bob Z

what exactly is wrong with them letting someone stay in their siting room?

Turtle_

Bob Z wrote: »

what exactly is wrong with them letting someone stay in their siting room?

Yeah exactly, and if one bedroom has an en suite they could put a camping stove and yoga mat in the main bathroom and let it out as a self contained unit.

GingerLily

Possibility - one of the girls have a boyfriend who hid in the living room while you were over and looked the door?

Bob Z

Bob Z wrote: »

what exactly is wrong with them letting someone stay in their siting room?

The apartment was rented to two people, that's all that should live there simple as that. There is no need to even give a reason why but there are many many reasons such as extra wear and tear (and no extra rent for the LL), planning issues, insurance issues, security issues, complex rules breeches etc etc.

If I were the op I'd be requesting an inspection of the entire property asap, any sign of another person living in the apartment and I'd be issuing notice of eviction.

PhilipsR

GingerLily wrote: »

Possibility - one of the girls have a boyfriend who hid in the living room while you were over and looked the door?

Literally makes no sense with the story.

Bob Z

PhilipsR wrote: »

Literally makes no sense with the story.

he wasnt dressed or didnt want anyone to know he was there...?

GingerLily

PhilipsR wrote: »

Literally makes no sense with the story.

Can you elaborate, there was a man seen going into the house several times by a neighbor and a locked door?

Turtle_

Bob Z wrote: »

he wasnt dressed or didnt want anyone to know he was there...?

So he moved the furniture out of the living room before taking cover..?

athtrasna

Mod note

Speculation is unhelpful, please post only in relation to the facts provided in the OP.

homerjay2005

This reads to me like the Op just cares about getting more money off them,hence the constant referral to the living room and his statement that's it's now a 3 bedroom place as opposed to a two.

<mod snip: speculation>

James Bond Junior

homerjay2005 wrote: »

This reads to me like the Op just cares about getting more money off them,hence the constant referral to the living room and his statement that's it's now a 3 bedroom place as opposed to a two.

You know this for certain do you? He has rented a two bed apartment not a three bed. He is entitled to expect his property will be used reasonably as set out on the lease. Wear and tear has been increased by 50% if there is a third person living there.

homerjay2005

James Bond Junior wrote: »

You know this for certain do you? He has rented a two bed apartment not a three bed. He is entitled to expect his property will be used reasonably as set out on the lease. Wear and tear has been increased by 50% if there is a third person living there.

There is zero proof to suggest there is a 3Rd bedroom in use, in fact I'd be 100% sure it's just idle guesswork by the landlord.

Reality is here is that if there is a 3Rd person, they are sharing one of the rooms and not the living room as is being said.

athtrasna

homerjay2005 wrote: »

There is zero proof to suggest there is a 3Rd bedroom in use, in fact I'd be 100% sure it's just idle guesswork by the landlord.

Reality is here is that if there is a 3Rd person, they are sharing one of the rooms and not the living room as is being said.

Mod note

That is not what the OP indicated. They have seen signs that the living room is being used as something other than a living room.

You have been asked to stop speculating but continue to do so. Please do not post on this thread again.

scamalert

OP only indicated that neighbors seen smth unusual,and when he came over he couldn't gain access to living room :cool: who locks their living room ,thus the suspicion.But it could easily been solved at the time by doing radiator inspection around the house,if he was fixing boiler,thus simple ill come back to check in the evening would been sufficed.

Since as someone stated correctly if OP was after cash he would of rented it as 3bed,instead maintaining 2bed proper house.

SNNUS

I feel for the OP but if you are constantly calling over to inspect or to change the locks you are violating their right to a peaceful dwelling.. you are the landlord but not their parents.

Graham

SNNUS wrote: »

but if you are constantly calling over to inspect or to change the locks you are violating their right to a peaceful dwelling..

Where did the OP state they were doing either?

pablo128

SNNUS wrote: »

I feel for the OP but if you are constantly calling over to inspect or to change the locks you are violating their right to a peaceful dwelling.. you are the landlord but not their parents.

All the tenants have to do is give the landlord access to the living room.Instead, there are posters dreaming up ways to prevent the landlord inspecting his own property.

foggy_lad

SNNUS wrote: »

I feel for the OP but if you are constantly calling over to inspect or to change the locks you are violating their right to a peaceful dwelling.. you are the landlord but not their parents.

A walk around inspection(taking a few minutes at most) every month or every three months is normal in many countries and is written into many leases although most landlords wouldn't inspect so often unless they suspected something was going on.

There is nothing wrong with such checks once the tenant is fully notified and given ample notice and given the opportunity to change times and dates to suit themselves if required.

Changing the locks is something that can be done at any time by the landlord once notice is given and the tenant is there at the time to let the landlord and locksmith in and to get the new keys.

A landlord can't just turn up out of the blue to inspect or to change locks or they will face fines for not allowing the tenants peaceful occupation of the dwelling!

slavetothegrind

Surely you as landlord should have a copy of every key for every lock on your property?

Are tenants allowed exclude you from rooms?

I'm all for by the book though, painful as it is .

I would inform them you require the key for that room, at an agreeable time and date, to get another two copy's made as they imply there is only one key between the two tenants and it seems you have none.

the_syco

Would the landlord be allowed to bring a licensed locksmith with him to open any locked door, when he arrives to inspect the house more fully?

Arcade_Tryer

ZENER wrote: »

We let out a 2 bed apartment to 2 sisters two years ago. All has been fine with them until recently.


The lease specifically forbids this and we have issued them with a warning to move the new tenant out asap. That was a week ago but they still maintain that they keep the room locked but can't give us a time that we can come visit so we can satisfy ourselves about the situation. I think they're stalling.

Thanks

Ken

My advice:

Give them 2 weeks to get the licensee out. It means you are being reasonable, it means the licensee has a chance to find somewhere else, and most importantly, it may stop the girls from going on the defensive/stalling and allow them to simply implement the solution while still saving face i.e. they can deny there was ever anybody there if they like. Make it clear, they have 2 weeks until you're entering the room no matter what, and will be checking the room more regularly thereafter too. See what happens. I'd be fairly sure they will play ball if they are smart.

scamalert

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

My advice:

Give them 2 weeks to get the licensee out. It means you are being reasonable, it means the licensee has a chance to find somewhere else, and most importantly, it may stop the girls from going on the defensive/stalling and allow them to simply implement the solution while still saving face i.e. they can deny there was ever anybody there if they like. Make it clear, they have 2 weeks until you're entering the room no matter what, and will be checking the room more regularly thereafter too. See what happens. I'd be fairly sure they will play ball if they are smart.

is there a law with how much notice he has to serve them,to inspect his own property ?
Seems like a major flaw in law,given he wants to see living room and this flip floping about arranging timing is stupid excuse,since most people would be at some time at their house for 10 min everyday - hardly any major inconvenience in any way, if you got nothing to hide.

ZENER

Apologies for not getting back to this sooner. We have told the tenants we will be doing an inspection in the second week in January and we expect to see all the rooms open. Hopefully there will be no more stalling. Being the season that's in it both us and them I'm sure could do without the stress.

Someone suggested that the third lodger might have been hiding in the living room while we were there. There is absolutely no issue with having someone over to visit and even staying for a couple of days, peaceful enjoyment of their home after all. If that was the case then why would they be hiding ?

The issues here is that the tenant in an adjacent apartment noticed this other person about the place, items from the living room moved into the hallway and the door being locked and no key available while we were there fixing the heating. To me that seems like someone is living in that room which is against the conditions of the rental agreement.

As for changing locks and using registered keys, there's a registered key and lock on the front gate to the complex but tenants don't seem to have had any issues getting duplicates made without permission so they're not really much use.

It's not about money by the way, it's about being able to trust people who you rent to. The property is still mortgaged and that is not being met by the current rents. Extra people living in the apartment means more wear and tear on appliances and furniture which costs more to fix, it's not all roses and I'm sure other landlords here will confirm !

We'll see in a couple of weeks what the real situation is.

Happy new year to all and thanks for the replies and suggestions.

Ken

athtrasna

Mod note
Thread closed in the interim as it has tended to go off topic. OP please pm one of the forum mods to reopen following January inspection if you would like to update.