Anyone find the pheasant numbers down

grassroot1

dodderangler wrote: »

I've heard of buzzards taking fully grown ewes and flying off with them and still be able to give the farmer the middle finger while being on the phone with his wing.
Some people will come up with anything for a cull.

As I said the same lads who tell tales like are the same lads that shoot 4-6 pheasants in a day and brag about it and moan next year when the numbers are down.

There is a great post in the Harris Hawk Falconry thread a youtube video of a harris hawk striking at a fox

useurowname

Kat1170 wrote: »

I had a lad today tell me this week a Buzzard ''cut'' a hole in the roof netting of his pen, bite the heads off half a doz. hen Pheasants then fly back through the hole in the netting and fly away. Now when you have a grown man try to convince you this is the truth you have to wonder just what is going on in some peoples minds.

I'm sure Buzzards take the odd weak or sickly Pheasant, but the wholesale slaughter that some people would have you believe ??? Nope :rolleyes:

Buzzards are taking a lot of young pheasants, of course they do, as do pine martins and hawks. That's nature, a young pheasant is an easy ball of tasty meat to any predator. You always have to factor losses to predators in, but there is a fair sight more Buzzards around and they are taking a toll on the wild pheasant population.

Birdnuts

useurowname wrote: »

Buzzards are taking a lot of young pheasants, of course they do, as do pine martins and hawks. That's nature, a young pheasant is an easy ball of tasty meat to any predator. You always have to factor losses to predators in, but there is a fair sight more Buzzards around and they are taking a toll on the wild pheasant population.

As I posted earlier in this thread - work has already been done on buzzard diet in this country usual actual physical evidence ie, contents of their pellets, which shows vermin like crows and rats make up the vast bulk of their diet. Despite this there appears to be an assumption among some that they live on nothing but pheasants. There also seems to an assumption that they spend there day making multiple kills - despite the fact that BOPS can only eat a fraction of their own weight every day(buzzards weighs only 2-3 pounds) in order to fly properly, as any falconer knows. Therefore the idea they are having a significant widespread affect on pheasant numbers compared to foxes, mink, ongoing widespread destruction of habitat, roadkill etc. simply does not stand up. Especcially when look at the successful Boora project in the midlands involving native gamebirds that in theory would be much vulnerable to BOP predation. At the end of the day buzzards are a native species that lived along side our native gamebirds like partridge for thousands of years without any problem until excess killing, persecution and habitat destruction by man wiped out both in the last 100 years or so

dodderangler

grassroot1 wrote: »

There is a great post in the Harris Hawk Falconry thread a youtube video of a harris hawk striking at a fox

Smart arse huh

useurowname

Ah so they're actually a great help to us all as they only eat the nasty rats and crows, will ya stop, they'll eat what's available when they'rehungry or their young need food. I notice you stop at foxes and mink, it's a inconvenient truth but pine martins and falcons take a right few young birds too, the former is particularly destructive around a release pen. But I accept it as part and parcel of conservation, I wouldn't like any species wiped out for the sake of my few pheasants.

dodderangler

useurowname wrote: »

Ah so they're actually a great help to us all as they only eat the nasty rats and crows, will ya stop, they'll eat what's available when they'rehungry or their young need food. I notice you stop at foxes and mink, it's a inconvenient truth but pine martins and falcons take a right few young birds too, the former is particularly destructive around a release pen. But I accept it as part and parcel of conservation, I wouldn't like any species wiped out for the sake of my few pheasants.

So are you saying you want to hunt peregrines now and pine martens to save a bunch of released dodo's??

Birdnuts

useurowname wrote: »

Ah so they're actually a great help to us all as they only eat the nasty rats and crows, will ya stop, they'll eat what's available when they'rehungry or their young need food. I notice you stop at foxes and mink, it's a inconvenient truth but pine martins and falcons take a right few young birds too, the former is particularly destructive around a release pen. But I accept it as part and parcel of conservation, I wouldn't like any species wiped out for the sake of my few pheasants.

Pine Martens are indeed destructive if they get into a pen - never denied that so please don't put words in my mouth. But again comparing what a Pine Marten can do to a buzzard or any other BOP makes little sense. Glad Barn owls only come out at night or god knows the same crowd would be making them out to be worse than the black death. I must say theres a worrying lack of knowledge about basic ecology among some who claim to be hunters. I'm half expecting someone to claim spiders are behind the collapse in honey bee numbers in recent years:rolleyes:

useurowname

You've arrived at that assertion not me. On the contrary I'm all for nature, conservation first, hunting has to justifiable from a conservation standpoint. I still believe habitat loss the major issue I Ireland, I can live with Buzzards.

Birdnuts

useurowname wrote: »

On the contrary I'm all for nature, conservation first, hunting has to justifiable from a conservation standpoint. I still believe habitat loss the major issue I Ireland, I can live with Buzzards.

I'm the same myself - I started off as a hunter but through that became interested in conservation. Some of the best conservationists are/were hunters and they are the best promotion tools for hunting sports IMO.

useurowname

Birdnuts wrote: »

I'm the same myself - I started off as a hunter but through that became interested in conservation. Some of the best conservationists are/were hunters and they are the best promotion tools for hunting sports IMO.

Indeed, that's the journey many of us are on I think.

dodderangler

Past two days in a row there's been a small male on the sign post for the kingswood exit at Tallaght. About 8 foot off the ground he's been sitting there watching the traffic and waiting on something to either be knocked down or just to grab some insects.
Serious pheasant murderer this guy is.

J.R.

I've also noticed a huge decline in the number of pheasants around this year.....same to a lesser degree last year and year before.

I've also noticed an increase in the amount of buzzards on our club lands.
However, I don't think the two can go hand in hand. To be honest - I think the buzzards look so majestic soaring in the sky above!

Sure - buzzards will probably take some young, weak injured pheasants..as will rats, pine martens, stoats, fox, feral cat, badgers and mink as well as the winged predators - gulls, greycrows, magpies and hawks, falcons and buzzards.

There is a large selection of predators out there - some we are allowed to control...some 100% protected, and rightly so (in my opinion). We just have to cope and manage with the odds we are given.

I don't agree with a buzzard cull.......I could see the pheasant numbers still down after such a cull......but buzzard numbers decimated by such actions. The buzzards where I shoot fly over low, without fear.....I'd imagine they would be easy targets if such a cull were permitted...decimating their numbers very quickly.

I think that modern farming methods account for the low numbers.

Where I shoot is most large tillage fields. In recent years contractors, rather than landowners are planting & reaping crops. They try to get the largest yield possible from the land. They have cut back hedges and ploughed in as close as they possibly can to the hedge, In fact this year they didn't even leave a gentle curve in the headland at the corner of each field.....they reversed in and ploughed as far in as they could go into each corner.
Ther result is the hedgerows and cover are very thin...easy for predators to spot young chicks and nests.

Years ago, once the harvest was over in October the land lay fallow until following spring. The fields were covered in stubble, fallen straw and grain was scattered everywhere. This attracted and fed small birds, pheasants and ducks during the lean winter months. (the shooting season).

Nowadays, as soon as the harvest is collected the plough is back in soon after, to plant winter barley. All the scattered seed from oats, wheat and barley on the ground is ploughed in. By time the shooting season comes you have neat, manicured fields of emerging green shoots of next year's crop, planted as close as possible to the hedge. It is practically sterile!

What I have noticed in these fields is there is very little wildlife visible...no small birds, no crows, no rabbits....and no pheasants! They will all move on to find a more natural spot with plenty of food and natural cover.

I think the new GLAS scheme...planting up crops to provide cover and food for wildlife is brilliant.

Rather than talk about a buzzard cull I think we should be encouraging (and assisting) landowners to plant GLAS crops...provide more wildlife food and cover. This would make it harder for predators & buzzards to find young pheasant chicks.

As a sidenote...if any protected predator needs to be considered for a cull I think larger gull species should be seriously looked at. In areas close to the coast gulls invade in large numbers and can be very aggressive in large numbers.

Cass

One more time for the hard of hearing.

Cut out the name calling. Keep it civil or your ability to post will be removed.

Straffan1979

The numbers are largely down due to habitat loss end of story. I agree with a lot of the above but I personally think the blanket spraying of pasture and/or silage ground for 'weeds' by farmers is causing huge damage to loss of biodiversity mainly insect life. Its a relatively recent phenomenon.The idea being to achieve a monocrop of ryegrass for silage/milk production. Its has to be impacting young hares too.The long term effect of the sprays is completely unknown but insect life is collapsing across Europe.

I shoot in Kildare and infrequently in west Kerry. The loss of typical woodcock ground/rough shooting ground in west Kerry over the last 10 years is akin to a nuclear bomb going off- its just gone. I'm very close to stopping woodcock shooting altogether. On a more positive note the few truly wild valleys/glens that are too remote for agriculture to bother with are doing well. I only shoot one brace of pheasant in Dingle a year as the club leave none out and the wild ones are a precious resource. We had them bagged within an hour yesterday- 2 crackers for a place that has poor feeding compared to Kildare and a great sign of hens as well. Testament to places that there's no interference from intensive farming are holding their own.

Kildare wise there's 2 pairs of Buzzards in Kildare on ground I shoot they arrived in the last 10years but I don't blame them for numbers being down. The intensification of tillage is a problem. I've also come across a practice of spraying headlands with roundup leaving nothing but bare earth- unbelievable. There's no doubt the last 2 years have been bad but we've had exceptionally cold/wet springs into June and bad summers. Anyone that grows veg will have seen vast majority of onions planted in spring bolting and going to seed-iv never seen it as bad before- the plant thinks its undergone a winter! Anyway that's my 2 cents- hopefully we'll get a decent spring/summer-stay positive there's still good ones out there!

useurowname

Actually it's disconcerting the loss of habitat, moreover the acceleration in the last 5 years of the loss. As I said previously we've resorted to releasing a few adult cocks a few days before we shoot. It's quite pathetic for well seasoned and good dogs but it's the only west we're guaranteed even a scent When we go out. I don't shoot snipe anymore, even though they're still apparent their numbers are about a tenth what they were twenty years ago.

barnaman

Would say its habitat lose. I farm and was hedgecutting recently; I used to leave alot of cover and still have a fair amount. Saw 4 hen pheasants in brambles that were out about 5 feet into a field along a hedge. All now cut so that cover they had is gone and most farms have little no depth in hedges left anymore.


Heard that snipe down alot and IMO birds like that really need a season limit; pheasant can always be reared so not the same issue.

Crow Pigeon and Pheasant

There are hundreds of rooks and jackdaws around and a few pheasants,woodcock and snipe! Only shot 2 pheasants this season as there aren't any reared and let out in our area and I don't shoot woodcock or snipe hopefully they will increase in population again in a few years! The way I see it is that corvids and pigeons are as good a sporting bird to shoot as any! If you shoot them you're helping with pest control aswell! Although could do with a few more lads shooting corvids around!

rarariot

Plenty of buzzards in my area, and plenty of pheasants too. I only ever see the buzzards interested in catching pigeon to be honest. Whenever the decoys come out, you'll see the buzzards circling. They have every much a right to be here as you, I, or any other native species.

Nekarsulm

barnaman wrote: »

Would say its habitat lose. I farm and was hedgecutting recently; I used to leave alot of cover and still have a fair amount. Saw 4 hen pheasants in brambles that were out about 5 feet into a field along a hedge. All now cut so that cover they had is gone and most farms have little no depth in hedges left anymore.


Heard that snipe down alot and IMO birds like that really need a season limit; pheasant can always be reared so not the same issue.

Dept.Ag. clamping down on all those wide hedges, waste corners and rough spots on farms, with their usual "stick to beat you with", threatened loss of part of your basic payment. With their satellite photographs now good enough to show a clump of rushes a few inches across, fellows are clearing all cover away to avoid drawing inspectors down on themselves.

grassroot1

rarariot wrote: »

Plenty of buzzards in my area, and plenty of pheasants too. I only ever see the buzzards interested in catching pigeon to be honest. Whenever the decoys come out, you'll see the buzzards circling. They have every much a right to be here as you, I, or any other native species.

What area is it that you hunt in, maybe there is better cover or some other reason that you have so many pheasants?

rarariot

grassroot1 wrote: »

What area is it that you hunt in, maybe there is better cover or some other reason that you have so many pheasants?

Meath! Could be more cover alright. The new GLAS scheme means maybe a few more farmers are maintaining and planting new hedgerows, they get a good bit of money for it. So that could be a factor alright

Paullimerick

Well as the last day of this shooting season has arrived. Hope ye all have a good one.

Tommyaya4

Last day no way 2 days holidays to finish the season off

Hunter456

buzzards are native to Ireland pheasants where introduced to Ireland and originated from Asia so people do the math buzzards have more of a right to be here, people who complain about buzzards are only interested in their shooting and are greedy ****ers. go put in some vermin control and stop being arm chair shooters.

flutered

Hunter456 wrote: »

buzzards are native to Ireland pheasants where introduced to Ireland and originated from Asia so people do the math buzzards have more of a right to be here, people who complain about buzzards are only interested in their shooting and are greedy ****ers. go put in some vermin control and stop being arm chair shooters.

did you really need to resort to foul language

Hunter456

flutered wrote: »

did you really need to resort to foul language

don't worry its censored.

blackpearl

Shot more vermin in my years than you had hot dinners also shoot a lot of pheasants so I am not a arm chair hunter and the buzzards are the biggest problem for wild pheasants that this country has seen ,by the way pheasants in this country since 10 th century so that makes them native enough for me.

Kat1170

Pheasants and Buzzards managed to live together for centuries without wiping each other out.
Loss of habitat is the biggest threat to flora and fauna the world over and is the same here.
Game clubs can release all the Pheasants they want but if there is no suitable habit for them to live in then they aren't going to live very long.

dodderangler

blackpearl wrote: »

Shot more vermin in my years than you had hot dinners also shoot a lot of pheasants so I am not a arm chair hunter and the buzzards are the biggest problem for wild pheasants that this country has seen ,by the way pheasants in this country since 10 th century so that makes them native enough for me.

So going by a lot of your comments apparently none of us can cook dinners that are hot? You can keep moaning about buzzard "apparently" slaughtering your pheasants or you can simply accept the fact they're apart of irelands countryside and always have been. It's because of people with attitudes like yours that they went extinct in the first place. Suppose next they'll be flying off with fully grown sheep huh? Sit in your armchair with your extremely "hot" dinner and il enjoy watching them with my apparently cold dinner

blackpearl

dodderangler wrote: »

So going by a lot of your comments apparently none of us can cook dinners that are hot? You can keep moaning about buzzard "apparently" slaughtering your pheasants or you can simply accept the fact they're apart of irelands countryside and always have been. It's because of people with attitudes like yours that they went extinct in the first place. Suppose next they'll be flying off with fully grown sheep huh? Sit in your armchair with your extremely "hot" dinner and il enjoy watching them with my apparently cold dinner

yes they are slaughtering wild pheasants,would that cold dinner your having happen to be native signal crayfish ,ha you stick to kicking the ditches huh?by what you know about wildlife you got it from reading a book in your armchair.