New model Land Rover Discovery

playbus

Has anyone actually seen any Discovery 5's on the road yet, that are not just dealer demonstrators?

I doubt it somehow. They ain't selling, at all. Too expensive. As per usual the distributor has made a complete mess of things by bringing in the top of the range models that only the elite can afford. And no actual 2 seat Commercials are yet available to actually view and test yet, either.......

What an unholy mess!

Bring back the days of the Tdi and Td5, when 90% of the stock was Commercials, because that's what the dealers knew would sell. Same for the 5 seat Utility Commercials that dominated the latter part of the Discovery 4 era here....

I have been proved 100% right!

goochy

Saw one but not sure if on test drive. It is getting close to July though so that might explain things . Dealers don't seem to have many in stock . One each or something ?
Large bill board ad in cork for them said price was from 57,xxx . They could have mentioned the commercial version price and said plus vat.
I dont think it's not just distributors fault - the discovery 4 with a v6 as standard is hard to replace

playbus

Problem is that the good old TDV6 engine is not available in the 5 seat format, so therefore not on the new 2 seat Commercial either.

The main dealer in Waterford is the first one to be advertising the Commercial with an ex VAT price.... but no pictures as the vehicle does not exist on their premises in actual form as of yet....

Wexford and other dealers have more than one in stock now....HSE 7 seat TD4 and TDV6.

Eric Cartman

playbus wrote: »

Has anyone actually seen any Discovery 5's on the road yet, that are not just dealer demonstrators?

I doubt it somehow. They ain't selling, at all. Too expensive. As per usual the distributor has made a complete mess of things by bringing in the top of the range models that only the elite can afford. And no actual 2 seat Commercials are yet available to actually view and test yet, either.......

What an unholy mess!

Bring back the days of the Tdi and Td5, when 90% of the stock was Commercials, because that's what the dealers knew would sell. Same for the 5 seat Utility Commercials that dominated the latter part of the Discovery 4 era here....

I have been proved 100% right!

"That only the elite could afford" - its a discovery mate, not a trabant, they were never cheap anyway.most people finance them anyway.

If there was still a 5 seat 'business' edition it would sell well enough due to vat reclaim and chaep tax,

playbus

playbus wrote: »

...........
The main dealer in Waterford is the first one to be advertising the Commercial with an ex VAT price.... but no pictures as the vehicle does not exist on their premises in actual form as of yet....

..........

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/land-rover/discovery/used-2017-171-land-rover-discovery-2-waterford-fpa-1055965927799021071

doesn't exist on their website either I think.

I said it earlier in the thread but to agree with the other poster they won't sell anymore than a handfull of these, the 2 seat commercial is the only thing that will get some interest but without a 5 seat commercial the sales of passenger versions are going to sink like a rock.

No idea why LR didn't ensure it met the N1 standards. I'm sure it would have been easy enough to make the boot opening a little bigger which id imagine is all it is failing to pass on.

goochy

These new dealerships are going to turn into white elephants at this rate , they were built/ proposed at a time when sales were booming.

Marcusm

Oliver Muscular Queen wrote: »

I said it earlier in the thread but to agree with the other poster they won't sell anymore than a handfull of these, the 2 seat commercial is the only thing that will get some interest but without a 5 seat commercial the sales of passenger versions are going to sink like a rock.

No idea why LR didn't ensure it met the N1 standards. I'm sure it would have been easy enough to make the boot opening a little bigger which id imagine is all it is failing to pass on.

Globally, it's been designed to be sold at the same price point as the outgoing RR Sport. Why on earth would they design it to meet N1 commercial standards - it's not the market they are aiming for and in many countries, whether commercial or not makes no difference. Ireland is unusual in providing VAT relief only on commercials and only on diesel. The UK is the biggest market and that isn't a relevant criterion. At this point in the car's life cycle, I imagine JLR will try to deny product to dealers who plan to butcher it into a 2 seater commercial. It doesn't aid the bulk of sales. The Disco 4 was sold falsely into that market in Ireland. A close scrutiny of most of the buyers would have denied all but the VRT relief.

Marcusm

Marcusm wrote: »

Globally, it's been designed to be sold at the same price point as the outgoing RR Sport. Why on earth would they design it to meet N1 commercial standards - it's not the market they are aiming for and in many countries, whether commercial or not makes no difference. Ireland is unusual in providing VAT relief only on commercials and only on diesel. The UK is the biggest market and that isn't a relevant criterion. At this point in the car's life cycle, I imagine JLR will try to deny product to dealers who plan to butcher it into a 2 seater commercial. It doesn't aid the bulk of sales. The Disco 4 was sold falsely into that market in Ireland. A close scrutiny of most of the buyers would have denied all but the VRT relief.

The 2 seat commercial is going to be an official offering so no idea why you think they would deny product. LR have their own modification wing for vehicles and do all manner of conversions so they aren't going to have any issue with 2 seat commercials, why would they. Also Ireland aren't the only country where N1 classification is an advantage.

As for why would they make it N1, well why do VW, Toyota and Mitsubishi do it and why did LR do it in the past not only with the discovery but all defenders are N1 commercials if I remember correctly.

Not sure what you mean by sold falsely, there was nothing wrong with selling an N1 classified vehicle as commercial nor anything wrong with reclaiming VAT for those who are VAT registered so not sure why you think buyers would be denied anything.

carsfan2

As a private buyer with a 7 seat BMW X5 and looking at this and Volvo XC90 in the future I think they are way off on pricing considering the 180 hp diesel on offer.
If the twin turbo 240 model was the price of the 180 it would make more sense. They aren't even offering this engine in the uk market.
Once you are adding seven seats,leather and a few bits, price is too high.
Couple that with a patchy dealer network and questionable reliability record and I can't see this being a common sight except maybe the commercial version.

sword1

carsfan2 wrote: »

As a private buyer with a 7 seat BMW X5 and looking at this and Volvo XC90 in the future I think they are way off on pricing considering the 180 hp diesel on offer.
If the twin turbo 240 model was the price of the 180 it would make more sense. They aren't even offering this engine in the uk market.
Once you are adding seven seats,leather and a few bits, price is too high.
Couple that with a patchy dealer network and questionable reliability record and I can't see this being a common sight except maybe the commercial version.

Not going to be common in the commercial version either, you can still get 5 seaters in vw and few others commercial. They have to find a way to pay bear grylls I suppose. I am sure it is a great suv but I find the sideview and the pillar at the rear ugly.

freddieot

carsfan2 wrote: »

As a private buyer with a 7 seat BMW X5 and looking at this and Volvo XC90 in the future I think they are way off on pricing considering the 180 hp diesel on offer.
If the twin turbo 240 model was the price of the 180 it would make more sense. They aren't even offering this engine in the uk market.
Once you are adding seven seats,leather and a few bits, price is too high.
Couple that with a patchy dealer network and questionable reliability record and I can't see this being a common sight except maybe the commercial version.

I also have an X5 and looking hard at other options for next time. Agree that this Disco is way over priced as a luxury option. Engines are just not up to it for the prices. I'm waiting to see the price slots for the new Velar but that will probably be out of step as well. Unless the higher spec models are keenly priced, they can't touch BMWs current spec plan (hopefully also to improve later this year with the new x3 platform)

sword1

freddieot wrote: »

I also have an X5 and looking hard at other options for next time. Agree that this Disco is way over priced as a luxury option. Engines are just not up to it for the prices. I'm waiting to see the price slots for the new Velar but that will probably be out of step as well. Unless the higher spec models are keenly priced, they can't touch BMWs current spec plan (hopefully also to improve later this year with the new x3 platform)

The velar looks classy, I would think it is away ahead of the BMW in the appearance front.

freddieot

sword1 wrote: »

The velar looks classy, I would think it is away ahead of the BMW in the appearance front.

Agreed, but that could be because we are used to seeing the BMW style on the road and in fairness the Velar looks very fresh compared to all the competition.

Still, the key thing, for me anyway, I think will be price and extras etc. It must come in about the same or a little more than the equivalent powered X3. There is a new X3 coming out second half of the year, (faster, better equipped, etc. than current model - which would still be more powerful than the Velar by the way) so if you eliminate the horrific looking Qs it seems to be the main competition.

I think the XCs are also a bit over-priced with too many extras to load up for the price. You rapidly bring an XC90 to 85-88k when you add a few toys in D5 engine and that is the price of an X5 x25M. Npt a hard decision to make



X5 is also to be replaced next year.

carsfan2

Land Rover/jaguar product are very spec and colour sensitive in my opinion.
Jag f pace looks great in higher trims with large wheels but rubbish in base spec,
Range Rover velar looks spectacular but when we see a base model it may not be so special. They seem to price their base level low but once you opt for a mid range spec and add a few extras the prices get a bit silly.

I think the new discovery price would be alright if we got the 240ps engine for the price they are giving the180ps.

sword1

freddieot wrote: »

Agreed, but that could be because we are used to seeing the BMW style on the road and in fairness the Velar looks very fresh compared to all the competition.

Still, the key thing, for me anyway, I think will be price and extras etc. It must come in about the same or a little more than the equivalent powered X3. There is a new X3 coming out second half of the year, (faster, better equipped, etc. than current model - which would still be more powerful than the Velar by the way) so if you eliminate the horrific looking Qs it seems to be the main competition.

I think the XCs are also a bit over-priced with too many extras to load up for the price. You rapidly bring an XC90 to 85-88k when you add a few toys in D5 engine and that is the price of an X5 x25M. Npt a hard decision to make



X5 is also to be replaced next year.

X5 starting to look a bit dated, when I was looking into needed a 7seater with room in boot for a buggy etc. X5 was off the list then.

playbus

LR Dealers in Ireland are now beginning to complain about the way the Discovery 5 has been launched into this country. They would have preferred to have seen a large stock of 5 seat and Commercial models first, instead of the top end 7 seat HSE's.

Makes sense....

carsfan2

I presume the Irish distributor decided prices and roll out of the model?
The hse seems to be the only one in all the dealers. They seem to have made a mistake in that decision.
When the equivalent Audi Q7 and BMW X5 is better value something is wrong.

playbus

With the fluctuating rate between the Euro and Sterling, the Irish distributor usually tends to add a lot on to cover this..... But it is the blasted VRT that is wrecking everything.

Hopefully VRT will be abandoned in the event of there being no trade deal between the UK and the EU post Brexit....... Which might be OK, as by the time that happens, the new JLR production plant will be open in Slovakia, and they are planning to build all EU models there, including the RHD models that Ireland and other places such as Malta require..... Should make the thing a lot cheaper!

carsfan2

Vrt will be here for ever or an equivalent.
I presume these are selling like hot cakes in the uk however as it always does. The British press are raving about it in all reviews but they reckon the twin turbo 2.0 is minimum requirement.

playbus

Yep, selling very well over in the UK, where they can get their orders in six weeks maximum.......

See: www.disco5.co.uk and www.disco4.com

goochy

Surprising ohm group seemed to have done a good enough job of land rover up to now , I was always surprised with value of sterling being high in past prices were not higher.
Seems to be alot of used evoques around and some with big miles - they are holding value well.

playbus

The D4 5 seat Utility was a good seller for them, yes. It was a stroke of luck that came just at the right time. But.....

(for example) there are loads of D4 Utilities that have the full infotainment screen fitted, with the analogue clock, and a button marked "NAV" that does nothing, because they refused to fit the navigation system until much later on....

So OHM haven't always got everything right......something that is continuing!

goochy

saw a few top of the range new Discos at dealer in Cork and was thinking while not my taste - don't look too bad.
now see that Stuarts have a top of range 3 litre HSE for just over €100k ! for a discovery !
they have a basic 2 litre for €82,225.

playbus

Yes, I spotted that one in Stuarts for over €100K too, ridiculous price. I would not pay that for a new Discovery even if I was extremely rich and owned several thousand acres of land.

Bolands are quoting €51K for a base 2 seat Commercial, on the road, including VAT....

Oafley Jones

I've yet to see a new one on the road in Cork. I've seen at least three 171 range rovers, a car that always seemed be to fairly rare down here. Chances were you'd see a newish one and it'd be Roy Keane driving it. Brother in law (who has a disco habit) has said he won't buy one and his 161 disco is the last he'll buy. Said he'll opt for a slightly older RR next year.

goochy

whats road tax on new 3 litre disco. ?
Is the road tax on Range Rover €2350 or is that just SDV8 model ?

Oafley Jones

goochy wrote: »

whats road tax on new 3 litre disco. ?
Is the road tax on Range Rover €2350 or is that just SDV8 model ?

I'm guessing the standard Range Rover v6 is 1200 like the disco 4.

playbus

goochy wrote: »

whats road tax on new 3 litre disco. ?

€750.

hi5

goochy wrote: »

whats road tax on new 3 litre disco. ?
Is the road tax on Range Rover €2350 or is that just SDV8 model ?

333 Euros...see Paddy Connolly;)

goochy

hes not having much luck shifting those new €333 road tax luxury 4x4 crew cabs, maybe its his rude ads !

blue5000

carsfan2 wrote: »

Prices and specs of the all new model discovery are up on the Land Rover website.
Starts at 58 k:eek: for poverty spec 5 seater with 180 hp.
Prices rise rapidly if you add any bit of spec or want any go.
Looks much more like a Range Rover than Land Rover than before.apparently there will be no 5 seater commercial version either.
Any opinion in this car?
Will it be a success here and will the first owners be development drivers for Land Rover as has been the case in the past?

I think I'll have to paint the chassis and under body of my 20 year old land cruiser this summer and make it last another decade. Land rover not for me anyway.

I saw one today for the first time in person, was driving the opposite way so only got a quick look but did look better than in the pics. It's looked big too.

As for sales, becuse of this tread I've kept a very close eye out and there is rally an awful lot of the previous model around, they are everywhere where I'm living and every single one has a cvrt disc. There are going to sell about 5% of the new ones in comparison unless the 2 seat commercial gets interest (which it may from some).

Leonard Hofstadter

goochy wrote: »

Surprising ohm group seemed to have done a good enough job of land rover up to now , I was always surprised with value of sterling being high in past prices were not higher.
Seems to be alot of used evoques around and some with big miles - they are holding value well.

Exactly, with the devaluation in Sterling it should be possible for them to sell the cars for less since they're made in the UK.

I can't see how the 178 bhp model is capable of moving at all, I know it's a lot lighter than the old car but that had a 3 litre V6 as standard and even then it was slow old thing. You'd need the SD4 as a bare minimum, and even then I'd be wanting a V6 especially given how much the Disco costs these days. The 178 bhp model is not even sold in the UK.

To buy a decent one (i.e. a V6 HSE - you need the HSE as the lower trims don't have leather) you're talking about the best part of €85k unless you go down the commercial route.

playbus

captainspeed wrote: »

To buy a decent one (i.e. a V6 HSE - you need the HSE as the lower trims don't have leather) you're talking about the best part of €85k unless you go down the commercial route.

Strangely, leather seats don't bother me, though I wish they'd offer electric cloth seats. I find the cloth comfier, probably just me but to date I have never had leather seats in any of my Discovery's and I have had a few of them over the years now!

Popoutman

It's one of a very few vehicles that fills a particular set of criteria. I know of a group wishing to purchase a vehicle that is

1. Capable of towing >3.2T when laden
2. 7-seater
3. Under 2.2m tall (long trailer overhang)
4. Comes in automatic - better for boat launches.

the only others I could see in that group is a Q7, Merc GLS, and Landcruiser. It's looking fairly good if the Disco's running costs with the 3.0 Td6 won't be exorbitant.

carsfan2

I was going through the pricelists for this and noticed a pricing anamoly I think.

http://landrover.ie/uploads/LR_Discovery_Pricelist2017.pdf



The sd4 engine 240ps can be bought with eco active something or other that reduces emissions and puts it in a lower tax/vrt bracket.
168 vs. 171.
In theory this should be cheaper due to lower vrt but this model costs about a grand give or take more than the higher co2 equivalent.
Surely the lower emitting model should be a fair bit cheaper?
I really hope Land Rover Ireland get their act together and revise the pricing of this car as it looks good but too dear compared to the opposition.

noelf

Navan today .. prefer the look of the previous model more characterful.. new model looks very narrow especially from behind..

carsfan2

Spotted my first one of these on the roads yesterday in adare limerick.
Think it was a hire car actually. Looked fulll of middle aged tourists( usually Americans in this neck of the woods).

Looks extremely tall and the rear is a design mess but certainly a very imposing car.

Oafley Jones

I don't like the looks, but I'd get over everything bar that rear. Awful bit of design.

playbus

http://m.carzone.ie/used-cars/Land-Rover/Discovery-2-Seat-Commercial/1055965927799021071

D5_comm_IRL_17_1.png

At just €51K including VAT it does represent reasonably good value for money and is significantly cheaper than the outgoing D4 5 seat Commercial was, even though it has the smaller engine. Surely going to sell well from that point of view....??

goochy

Looking at group test including v6 diesel discovery , the v6 discovery is slow compared to even 2 litre xc90. Top speed only 130mph

carsfan2

I can't imagine the 180 bhp engine will move this car around quickly or economically.
I always take uk group tests with a pinch of salt. The jag or land Rover always seems to win regardless plus they hold them in higher esteem than we do here and have a bigger dealer network.

playbus

carsfan2 wrote: »

I can't imagine the 180 bhp engine will move this car around quickly or economically.
I always take uk group tests with a pinch of salt. The jag or land Rover always seems to win regardless plus they hold them in higher esteem than we do here and have a bigger dealer network.

Probably because they are significantly more affordable over there too, is why they remain popular!

sword1

playbus wrote: »

Probably because they are significantly more affordable over there too, is why they remain popular!

And are waving the flag . Understandable really but has to be taken into account when reading any UK account. I find any reviews have been bought one way or the other and you have to read between the lines

carsfan2

I'm not sure the discovery is any cheaper than here as some reviews mention it being more expensive than rivals but it has the 240ps engine as standard there.
It supports uk jobs so a bit of flag flying is inevitable. If it was an Irish car we would do the same.

My wife has said it's too big and ugly and we know plenty with Land Rover reliability problems so it's out for now anyway.

freddieot

How is the reliability for the LR Range Rover line (Evoque, RR Sport etc.) ? Is it a step above the Land Rover models, which I have often hear, are questionable ?

I like the look of the new Velar (pricing will of course be interesting) but at that price step, I'm not looking for anything that is going to be giving me problems. (currently have X5 - no issues, touch wood).

playbus

playbus wrote: »

http://m.carzone.ie/used-cars/Land-Rover/Discovery-2-Seat-Commercial/1055965927799021071

D5_comm_IRL_17_1.png

At just €51K including VAT it does represent reasonably good value for money and is significantly cheaper than the outgoing D4 5 seat Commercial was, even though it has the smaller engine. Surely going to sell well from that point of view....??

For business users it makes sense, only €2550 BIK to the driver and if they are a director than there's the CA of over double that.

180bhp isn't that bad to be fair, the XC90 has a similar option iirc

sword1

Augeo wrote: »

For business users it makes sense, only €2550 BIK to the driver and if they are a director than there's the CA of over double that.

180bhp isn't that bad to be fair, the XC90 has a similar option iirc

0/60 10.5 seconds in the disco, 9.2 second in the volvo so a good difference

sword1

sword1 wrote: »

0/60 10.5 seconds in the disco, 9.2 second in the volvo so a good difference

The Disco was often less speedier than rivals.
The 2.7V6 model was a slug too

Also the XC90 isn't available as a 2 seater commercial