General sheep thread

Inchilad

Cran wrote:

Cull, long run do you no favors for further sales. Checked April hoggets here few weeks ago when shearing, one the same gone to factory

Ill be honest and thats what my gut says too.have some good ram lambs this year and will be selling locally so dont want to fck it up with 1 bad one.tnx

cattle man

Dosed and bolused lambs yesterday lot of scalds on lambs just came all of a Sudden this week little or no lambness up to this.
I walked all through a 5% solution of formalin and stood for 20 mins on concrete do ye think this will be enough or should I repeat again today.
How long before I could expect them to be healed up ?

rangler1

cattle man wrote: »

Dosed and bolused lambs yesterday lot of scalds on lambs just came all of a Sudden this week little or no lambness up to this.
I walked all through a 5% solution of formalin and stood for 20 mins on concrete do ye think this will be enough or should I repeat again today.
How long before I could expect them to be healed up ?

They'll be tender today and even look worse than yesterday but I never had to do them twice, they usually are better in a few days.....5% sounds too strong, haven't used it in years but thought that 3% was the mix

Username John

Have a few hoggets with what I assume is strawberry footrot...

It breaks out where the leg meets the crubeen, and then the leg half rots inside the crubeen... I imagine the crubeen will eventually fall off...

how do others treat this? I normally run em through a formalin foot bath, but I don't know if it does much for this...

Now to be fair, they were bad enough too by the time I looked at em... but they are in a very bad way now, putting no weight at all on the bad leg...

Just wondering what's the best treatment for the future really, as these few I have will be sent to the factory once they put on any bit of weight (which will be slow enough with the lame leg)

rangler1

Username John wrote: »

Have a few hoggets with what I assume is strawberry footrot...

It breaks out where the leg meets the crubeen, and then the leg half rots inside the crubeen... I imagine the crubeen will eventually fall off...

how do others treat this? I normally run em through a formalin foot bath, but I don't know if it does much for this...

Now to be fair, they were bad enough too by the time I looked at em... but they are in a very bad way now, putting no weight at all on the bad leg...

Just wondering what's the best treatment for the future really, as these few I have will be sent to the factory once they put on any bit of weight (which will be slow enough with the lame leg)

Overuse of formalin will harden the crubeen and it'll eventually crack off so it mightn't be the stuff to use for that problem.
You might google CODD and see some images, it sounds like what you have....it can be very infectious.
Antibiotic injections, and zinc sulphate, or even lincosin in the footbath might be the way to go. formalin will wreck the feet if overused

Username John

rangler1 wrote: »

Overuse of formalin will harden the crubeen and it'll eventually crack off so it mightn't be the stuff to use for that problem.
You might google CODD and see some images, it sounds like what you have....it can be very infectious.
Antibiotic injections, and zinc sulphate, or even lincosin in the footbath might be the way to go. formalin will wreck the feet if overused

Yeah, I had a look at a few videos on that... it could be, but I don't know if it is... I'd be thinking it isn't... It's only a few hog, it hasn't spread beyond them...

I suspect i wasn't good enough at the foot bathing maybe, and it's footrot that got a good hold before I treated... and it kinda went through the hoof, before I stopped it...

Tis only now I realise how well I had it with lameness... we culled hard for lame sheep, and lameness wasn't a big issue for us... when we got the store lambs there last Aug, it brought it all back again... having to bring em in often cos some few of em were always hopping around...

rangler1

Username John wrote: »

Yeah, I had a look at a few videos on that... it could be, but I don't know if it is... I'd be thinking it isn't... It's only a few hog, it hasn't spread beyond them...

I suspect i wasn't good enough at the foot bathing maybe, and it's footrot that got a good hold before I treated... and it kinda went through the hoof, before I stopped it...

Tis only now I realise how well I had it with lameness... we culled hard for lame sheep, and lameness wasn't a big issue for us... when we got the store lambs there last Aug, it brought it all back again... having to bring em in often cos some few of em were always hopping around...

Yea, and they'll have to be 110% correct if they're been sold on for breeding,
Just be aware of that problem with formalin as you're going to be more regular with foot bathing getting them ready for sale

Ard_MC

Username John wrote: »

Have a few hoggets with what I assume is strawberry footrot...

It breaks out where the leg meets the crubeen, and then the leg half rots inside the crubeen... I imagine the crubeen will eventually fall off...

how do others treat this? I normally run em through a formalin foot bath, but I don't know if it does much for this...

Now to be fair, they were bad enough too by the time I looked at em... but they are in a very bad way now, putting no weight at all on the bad leg...

Just wondering what's the best treatment for the future really, as these few I have will be sent to the factory once they put on any bit of weight (which will be slow enough with the lame leg)

I had that in 2 ewes i bought in and 2 shots of alamycin la sorted it. But if your sending them to the factory might not be the cure for you!

Lambman

Anybody any experience with blue texels? Heard there easier lambed and slightly more prolific?

stantheman1979

My next door neighbour has a blue texal ram. He reckons they're not hard lambed and grow like stink. He has nearly all his march born lambs sold( blue texals and dorsets) off grass. But he said a good few of the ewes has one white and one completely black lamb with made it hard to mother them up when they're young as you can't spray mark the black lambs!

Lambman

stantheman1979 wrote: »

My next door neighbour has a blue texal ram. He reckons they're not hard lambed and grow like stink. He has nearly all his march born lambs sold( blue texals and dorsets) off grass. But he said a good few of the ewes has one white and one completely black lamb with made it hard to mother them up when they're young as you can't spray mark the black lambs!

That's some going running texels and charrlois (hogget ewes) rams here end off March lambing flock trying till finish off grass and most are only ready for weaning now never mind factory ready. Anybody recommend any good blue texel breeders?

roosky

Lambman wrote: »

Anybody any experience with blue texels? Heard there easier lambed and slightly more prolific?

I looked into them a few years back and was very surprised to learn that they are genetically the same as a normal texel its just a color thing so there were always blue texels but they didn't meet breed standards.

Its the same concept as white shorthorn cattle, if you put a herd of white shorthorns together and kept breeding them you would still have shorthorns!

Lambman

Yea I knew that... they still throw predominantly white lambs... the colour is a genetic thing that's all but people wreckon they also have a slightly differ in other genetics which makes them easier lambed and slightly more prolific?

roosky

Lambman wrote: »

Yea I knew that... they still throw predominantly white lambs... the colour is a genetic thing that's all but people wreckon they also have a slightly differ in other genetics which makes them easier lambed and slightly more prolific?

to me they look closer to the dutch texel, where as we here in Ireland are used to the British texel type ewe.

They could indeed have a better performance but just no a breed of their own

Lambman

Went till a purebred farmer yesterday trying till source my next ram lamb... seen a few nice ones all top bloodlines mostly English.... thing is he's looking €250 now for the ram lambs only born in March and just started being creeped last week wile still on the ewes... fine sheep but surely 2 expensive as there will be a lot off feeding needed till get them till a size for working in October... buying now and them not off the ewes they'll likely be stunted for a few weeks aswell... dono what till do I'd kick myself round the Mart if I seen one a them being sold in September for 4 or 5 hundred!

razor8

if from top bloodline he's totally undervaluing his stock, if i was selling the pick of lambs now id want €500 minimum. if he's after investing in top genetics he's well entitled to it.

a grass fed ram lamb should easily be 55kg plus come October without any meal if on decent grass

stantheman1979

Agreed I'd go back and get a few of them at that price. You're getting the first pick and can see what they're like straight off the ewes before they get pumped to the gills for the sales in Aug-Sep where they will make €400-500.

ganmo

Is it not very late for pedigree lambs to be still on the ewe?
Spend the 250 on him and 50 on meal and you'll still be getting a good ram

Lambman

This fella lambs mid March 2 and wouldn't sell ram lambs usually holds the on till hoggets... his stock ram outta llyfni usain bolt cost him over 2k... the lambs wouldn't be that heavy yet but I won't need them till 22nd October... what weight would they need till be till service ewes? I know they say a ewe lamb had till be 50kg+ but for a ram? 55-60kg?

Willfarman

A 40kg ram lamb will do plenty of damage if you didn't want him to!

sea12

Willfarman wrote: »

A 40kg ram lamb will do plenty of damage if you didn't want him to!

Agreed I have ewe hoggets with lambs st foot to prove it. 😬

Lano Lynn

no amount of feed will change how a ram will breed but overfeeding may effect IF he breeds and for how long

http://www.pedigreesheep.com/ianmcdougall.pdf

250 seems like good value
on the other hand the rate at which texels are developing breathing problems etc and dying.. might have to buy two to have one:mad:

ganmo

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/over-400-lamb-carcasses-destroyed-due-to-disease-outbreak

Anyone heard of that disease before? Should we be worried?

Lambman

Just after reading it there aswell ganmo there pretty sure they caught it before it went into the food chain.... started in Donegal 2... by sounds a it there is no way a testing your lambs only way till tell is post mortem... Will the farmers lose the value off the lambs or I'll it be subsidised?

greysides

I don't think there's any need for concern generally. The parasite has a very specific pair of hosts, final and intermediate, similar to tapeworms. The risk to humans is from the tissue cysts it forms in the intermediate host, the sheep, in the muscles. The bodies response to it ends up causing multiple, small abscesses there. The abscesses are found on post mortem examination.

Willfarman

Are any of the wormers effective? Did the factory have to skip the entire chill room?

greysides

Sarcocystosis:



Sarcocystosis is caused by species of Sarcocystis, an intracellular protozoan parasite in the phylum Apicomplexa. These parasites have an indirect life cycle, cycling between a definitive and an intermediate host. Intestinal infections occur in the definitive host, and tissue invasion is seen in the intermediate host. More than a hundred species of Sarcocystis are parasites of domestic and wild animals. Many of these infections are asymptomatic, particularly in the definitive host.

Sarcocystis spp. have an indirect life cycle, and must develop in both an intermediate and a definitive host. In many cases, a Sarcocystis species cycles through a specific predator or scavenger, and its prey. Most species have a single intermediate host; however, S. neuronais less host-specific.

The definitive host becomes infected when it ingests encysted parasites (sarcocysts) in muscle tissues. Sarcocysts are oval, whitish cysts that vary in size from microscopic to visible. They are filled with hundreds to thousands of bradyzoites. The bradyzoites are released in the intestine of the definitive host, where they enter the lamina propria and immediately undergo gametogony to form oocysts. There is no asexual replication in the definitive host. The oocysts mature in the host’s cells, then are shedin the feces. These oocysts already contain two sporocysts, each with four sporozoites. The oocysts may disintegrate, and sporocysts may be found in the feces.

Intermediate hosts become infected when they ingest oocysts or sporocysts. The sporozoites are released in the intestines and cross into the bloodstream. In many cases, they multiply asexually in the walls of small blood vessels before invading the skeletal or cardiac muscles or neural tissues, where they form the sarcocyst wall and multiply as merozoites for several generations. The merozoites eventually develop into bradyzoites within the sarcocysts. Only the bradyzoite stage is infectious.


Amprolium has been used prophylactically to decrease the clinical signs in experimental infections in cattle. Amprolium and salinomycin have been used in experimentally infected sheep.

Therapeutic treatment of cattle and sheep has, to date, been ineffective.


For more read: http://www.cfsph.iastate.edu/Factsheets/pdfs/sarcocystosis.pdf

greysides

The disease is believed to develop in the host for between one and two weeks after it ingests muscle tissue that contains Sarcocystis cysts, the final host will then begin to shed the infective parasites in its faeces; shedding continues for several months.

I don't think the author of that report really understood what he was reporting. While what is written is true it gives the impression, having being talking about sheep, that sheep are the 'Final host'. In this case sheep were the intermediate host, the final host being something that might eat sheep meat, a dog perhaps. The sheep won't be shedding infection themselves, they only become a problem once dead. The cysts in the meat, under attack from the bodies defences, are basically small abscesses.

Livestock become infected by sporocysts from the feces of carnivores. Because most adult cattle, sheep, and many pigs harbor cysts in their muscles, dogs and other carnivores should not be allowed to eat raw meat, offal, or dead animals. Supplies of grain and feed should be kept covered; dogs and cats should not be allowed in buildings used to store feed or house animals. Amprolium (100 mg/kg/day for 30 days), fed prophylactically, reduced illness in cattle inoculated with S cruzi. Prophylactic administration of amprolium or salinomycin also protected experimentally infected sheep. Therapeutic treatment of the chronic stage (tissue cysts) has been ineffective. Vaccines are not available. Experimental work demonstrated that infected pork and beef could be made safe for consumption by cooking at 70°C (158°F) for 15 min or by freezing at –4°C (24.8°F) for 2 days or –20°C (-4°F) for 1 day.

http://www.msdvetmanual.com/musculoskeletal-system/sarcocystosis/overview-of-sarcocystosis


Both links I've used seem to be America-orientated. This disease is not by any means common in Ireland. I've never heard of it here before so I wouldn't be panicking about it.

It's an unfortunate situation for all involved as the factory suppliers couldn't have known about the problem and the factory is left with unsaleable meat. So who carries the can....?

ganmo

greysides wrote: »

I don't think the author of that report really understood what he was reporting. While what is written is true it gives the impression, having being talking about sheep, that sheep are the 'Final host'. In this case sheep were the intermediate host, the final host being something that might eat sheep meat, a dog perhaps. The sheep won't be shedding infection themselves, they only become a problem once dead. The cysts in the meat, under attack from the bodies defences, are basically small abscesses.



http://www.msdvetmanual.com/musculoskeletal-system/sarcocystosis/overview-of-sarcocystosis


Both links I've used seem to be America-orientated. This disease is not by any means common in Ireland. I've never heard of it here before so I wouldn't be panicking about it.

It's an unfortunate situation for all involved as the factory suppliers couldn't have known about the problem and the factory is left with unsaleable meat. So who carries the can....?

I wonder would the factory's product liability insurance cover them for it.

cattle man

Quick question When ye use click on ewes do ye apply 35 ml for 50 kilos or do ye increase the dose more to allow for ewes being 70-80 kilos.

My ewes would be 70 kilos roughly.

Thanks

Username John

cattle man wrote: »

Quick question When ye use click on ewes do ye apply 35 ml for 50 kilos or do ye increase the dose more to allow for ewes being 70-80 kilos.

My ewes would be 70 kilos roughly.

Thanks

Do you shear late in the year, that you're putting clik on the ewes now?

Or does everyone put clik on the ewes a few weeks after they're shorn? We never used to here...

farawaygrass

I would put on around 40ml

cattle man

Username John wrote: »

Do you shear late in the year, that you're putting clik on the ewes now?

Or does everyone put clik on the ewes a few weeks after they're shorn? We never used to here...

Sheared a month now. And had maggots in one today up on her back perfectly clean sheep

roosky

sending ewes and lambs to factory tomorrow , do the ewes need to be on a seperate dispatch document to the lambs ???

More so due to the section that asks about the residency from birth as some ewes were bought in,

IH784man

Lump them all on the one docket,in the residency from birth tick no as some sheep are but not all are.

razor8

i always use seperate dockets, easier when filling out flock register too

ganmo

razor8 wrote: »

i always use seperate dockets, easier when filling out flock register too

Ditto

rangler1

cattle man wrote: »

Quick question When ye use click on ewes do ye apply 35 ml for 50 kilos or do ye increase the dose more to allow for ewes being 70-80 kilos.

My ewes would be 70 kilos roughly.

Thanks

We never use more than 35ml, on a full fleece in may......like that our ewes would be 70+, never had a breakdown

IH784man

Bought a ewe a week or 2 ago in the mart,she has a long tail,hate them on ewes,anyway I can remove it as painless as possible before the ram goes out in August?Could I use a rubber band

razor8

Definitely not

ganmo

The only way you can remove a tail is to put the ring on them inside 1 week of age.

If you really really hate the sight of it a vet might cut it off

DJ98

One long tail won't do any harm. The ram will no exactly what he is at.

sea12

IH784man wrote: »

Bought a ewe a week or 2 ago in the mart,she has a long tail,hate them on ewes,anyway I can remove it as painless as possible before the ram goes out in August?Could I use a rubber band

No that can only be used when they are under a week old. That would cause unnecessary suffering. Sur the ram will work away just keep the tail clipped

IH784man

It doesn't bother me that much would just prefer it off,thanks

Lambman

IH784man wrote: »

It doesn't bother me that much would just prefer it off,thanks

Seen men do it with the squeezers they use for castrating calfs.. it's fast and very little blood... but it wouldn bother me having a ewe with a long tail.

Buford T. Justice XIX

I haven't docked tails for more than 20 years and only one ewe died of twin lamb in that time. A quarter of a ewes fat reserves are held in the tail so I am very uneasy about tailing lambs I may be keeping for breeding.

White Clover

Farmer_3650 wrote: »

Never mind the vet we used to cut the tails off all our lambs with a knife up until about 3 years ago. We still cut the tails off 5 or 6 lambs every year that we forget to put rings on. There is a fair bit of blood afterwards but none of the lambs ever got an infection and none of them started losing weight or anything like that. Now we use the rings. It's a lot less painful on the lamb and is probably the best option but if you have the odd one or two with tails, don't be afraid to cut them off.

This is a public forum, what you're advocating there is not on. Please don't be encouraging anyone else to carry on like that.

ganmo

Farmer_3650 wrote: »

Never mind the vet we used to cut the tails off all our lambs with a knife up until about 3 years ago. We still cut the tails off 5 or 6 lambs every year that we forget to put rings on. There is a fair bit of blood afterwards but none of the lambs ever got an infection and none of them started losing weight or anything like that. Now we use the rings. It's a lot less painful on the lamb and is probably the best option but if you have the odd one or two with tails, don't be afraid to cut them off.

I know it can be done but it shouldn't and you shouldn't admit that you did it either

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/farmingschemesandpayments/crosscompliance/farmadvisorysystem/2012fastrainingpresentations/FASWELFARE12.pdf
Page 20

Green farmer

Going to buy some clik online. Who's reliable and straightforward to order off ? Agridirect ????

roosky

Green farmer wrote: »

Going to buy some clik online. Who's reliable and straightforward to order off ? Agridirect ????

Deal with agridirect weekly,

and never had a complaint about them, and any issue i had was sorted quickly