General sheep thread

_blaaz

Young95 wrote: »

They were less than 9 months old tho that’s the thing

Unless you have grounds for appeal on area they havnt left the holding??


Idk anything about bord bia...im not in it....unlikely to go now if its messing like this involved

ganmo

Young95 wrote: »

Right advice needed recently had a Bord bia audit all went well until the flock registered came out. Going bck to last year I had huge lamb losses die to the bad spring I also kept a lot of replacements back n that so my sales were way back due to loses and replacements kept. He then asked me bout where were the deceased lambs knackery receipts and I kinda laughed and said that I buried any young lambs that die because there not tagged etc but now time hey won’t pass me without getting theses Knackery receipts I told them that the financial loss having to pay to get a day old lamb taking away is crazy n most farmers who lose young lambs r ****ed into the ditch but no having none of it �� so ya advice on what to do our r these pen pushers going to far ? Oh

Sounds like you learned an important lesson, if an inspector of any kind asks a question that might land you in the sh1t dont fecking answer it.

Green farmer

Young95 wrote: »

Right advice needed recently had a Bord bia audit all went well until the flock registered came out. Going bck to last year I had huge lamb losses die to the bad spring I also kept a lot of replacements back n that so my sales were way back due to loses and replacements kept. He then asked me bout where were the deceased lambs knackery receipts and I kinda laughed and said that I buried any young lambs that die because there not tagged etc but now time hey won’t pass me without getting theses Knackery receipts I told them that the financial loss having to pay to get a day old lamb taking away is crazy n most farmers who lose young lambs r ****ed into the ditch but no having none of it �� so ya advice on what to do our r these pen pushers going to far ? Oh

Most farmers would not have Knackery dockets for dead lambs that are only a day old. The Fox would have them gone in the middle of the night long before the farmer would even see them. They make off with a few live ones as well. Once you had plenty of dockets for mature lambs or ewes that are too big for the Fox should be more then adequate. A good Bord bia inspector should apply some common sense. Especially in an outdoor lambing setup.

Dinzee Conlee

ganmo wrote: »

Sounds like you learned an important lesson, if an inspector of any kind asks a question that might land you in the sh1t dont fecking answer it.

This...

I think you sunk yourself when you started laughing at the deaths question to be honest, and then saying you buried em... well, that’s totally out, and has been for a long time...
Be better off saying the fox / snow got a lot of them, you put them out and never saw em again...

As ganmo said, learn from it, be a bit more prepared with answers at next inspection...

Young95

I agree 100 percent I’ll learn the next time but you’d think common sense would kick in is all

J.O. Farmer

Young95 wrote: »

Because I had 85ewes only sold 40 lambs and kept 40 replacements so he was like you most of had more lambs than that for 85 ewes n then it went on for there

You could have lost a few to the fox and a poor return. Just because he says you should have had more doesn't mean you did. There's lots of reasons to have a lot of dry ewes.

joe35

Id get on to your IFA rep. They're ment to be the union for farmers and this is a ridiculous requirement.
Say you ment the were burried in the snow. Or burried in the dung and between the fox and grey crow you had nothing left. Or just say nothing, tell the IFA man they are looking for dockets for dead lambs and you've none.
We never have dockets for new born lambs even though we would throw the odd one out with the knackery.
I'd let them know you're rightly annoyed at it, even though it probably was your own niavity led to this.
On another note we just passed our bord bia inspection . Think we were 95% ,
Find if they ask you questions they'll answer them for you if you say nothing. I.e. him. what do you do with dead new borns??
Me.😞😞😞😞😞😕😕😕😕😕
Him. Would the fox take them???
Me. I don't know 😕😕 probably

Buford T. Justice XIX

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

They seemed to be suffolk cross and a white faced breed. No mention of breeds at all, now that you've brought it up. The rams were on the home farm, I'm guessing.

Belclare and Suffolk crosses according to the Journal.

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/sheep-grassland-farmer-of-the-year-is-brilliant-at-the-basics-473389

kk.man

I really feel for young95 on the inspection outcome. A few things sprung to mind;
1. Is the inspector a farmer himself?
2. If the inspector is a farmer, is he a sheep farmer?
3. If you making a complaint, ask if every sheep farmer that inspector went to was asked the same question.
4. Did you do anything to rise him before he asked this question.

I fear sheep farmers will have to account for new born dead lambs at some point in future. This country and the EU are gone ott on every issue. That and vegans, greens and the likes 'the world is not as we know it.'

And to add to this; they will know how many lambs survived/died as people have a scan document to get their 10 euro sheep welfare payments.

Ard_MC

kk.man wrote: »

I really feel for young95 on the inspection outcome. A few things sprung to mind;
1. Is the inspector a farmer himself?
2. If the inspector is a farmer, is he a sheep farmer?
3. If you making a complaint, ask if every sheep farmer that inspector went to was asked the same question.
4. Did you do anything to rise him before he asked this question.

I fear sheep farmers will have to account for new born dead lambs at some point in future. This country and the EU are gone ott on every issue. That and vegans, greens and the likes 'the world is not as we know it.'

And to add to this; they will know how many lambs survived/died as people have a scan document to get their 10 euro sheep welfare payments.

Some of these bord bia lads the power goes to their head. They are only invited onto your farm and can and should be asked to leave if they get out.of their box.

I had 1 and started to get ratty why a shed wasnt cleaned out. Asked was i breaking any cross compliance rules. Couldnt answer the question.

Nothing was housed and wouldnt be till March.

DJ98

When weaning do any of ye house ewes for a few days or just put them onto a bare field?

Westernrock

kk.man wrote: »

I really feel for young95 on the inspection outcome. A few things sprung to mind;
1. Is the inspector a farmer himself?
2. If the inspector is a farmer, is he a sheep farmer?
3. If you making a complaint, ask if every sheep farmer that inspector went to was asked the same question.
4. Did you do anything to rise him before he asked this question.

I fear sheep farmers will have to account for new born dead lambs at some point in future. This country and the EU are gone ott on every issue. That and vegans, greens and the likes 'the world is not as we know it.'

And to add to this; they will know how many lambs survived/died as people have a scan document to get their 10 euro sheep welfare payments.

+1 on this, it will become more about traceability and things like wastage ( losses from scanning to sales). I was at a conference 2years ago and one speaker was suggesting it could come to a stage where certain supermarkets would demand to source lambs from flocks with below x % wastage....

Hard Knocks

DJ98 wrote: »

When weaning do any of ye house ewes for a few days or just put them onto a bare field?

I put them in for 10 days

Siamsa Sessions

What’s the approach to tracking dead lambs in the UK? Or France for that matter?

The Bord Bia issue has to go further up the hierarchy and farm organisations should be called in.

A few here vanished last year and I can only assume a fox took them, but I’ve no proof. There must be some scope for common sense and a recognition that we’re working with nature and not in a fully controlled environment

wrangler

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

What’s the approach to tracking dead lambs in the UK? Or France for that matter?

The Bord Bia issue has to go further up the hierarchy and farm organisations should be called in.

A few here vanished last year and I can only assume a fox took them, but I’ve no proof. There must be some scope for common sense and a recognition that we’re working with nature and not in a fully controlled environment

You'd have to get a written report from Bord bia stating why QA was refused for a farmer,
Admitting the burial of the lambs was no help, but I'd be surprised if the inspector was that particular, but it is a cross compliance issue and maybe even illegal.
We give all dead lambs to the knackery but have no proof

Young95

wrangler wrote: »

You'd have to get a written report from Bord bia stating why QA was refused for a farmer,
Admitting the burial of the lambs was no help, but I'd be surprised if the inspector was that particular, but it is a cross compliance issue and maybe even illegal.
We give all dead lambs to the knackery but have no proof

I agree I shouldn’t have said that n will learn but he wanted all dead lambs recorded in flock register and knackery receipts so I told him that that was impossible as lambs were lost to vermin etc n dates won’t be accurate. So I’ll know later today where I stand.

wrangler

Young95 wrote: »

I agree I shouldn’t have said that n will learn but he wanted all dead lambs recorded in flock register and knackery receipts so I told him that that was impossible as lambs were lost to vermin etc n dates won’t be accurate. So I’ll know later today where I stand.

Again an example of civil servants sitting at a desk making rules and not having a clue about the practicalities of implementing them in the real world.
I wonder what they think of all the wild animals/birds that die in the wild and aren't even buried.
You really should bring it to the attention of your local IFA office as this attitude from the inspector should be nipped in the bud

Green farmer

wrangler wrote: »

Again an example of civil servants sitting at a desk making rules and not having a clue

I wonder what they think of all the wild animals/birds that die in the wild and aren't even buried.

That’s a very good point. I’m surprised anything gets done in this country as everything is so complex.

razor8

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

What’s the approach to tracking dead lambs in the UK? Or France for that matter?

The Bord Bia issue has to go further up the hierarchy and farm organisations should be called in.

A few here vanished last year and I can only assume a fox took them, but I’ve no proof. There must be some scope for common sense and a recognition that we’re working with nature and not in a fully controlled environment

Bord Bia wouldn’t have looked for proof if the farmer hadn’t said he buried them.

It’s a lesson to everyone. A common sense auditor would have said I’ll pretend I didn’t hear that but this lad is obviously by the book

It’s not a welfare issue to have a few lambs taken by a fox. It’s a different issue with a adult sheep

MeTheMan

A receipt that says 'bag of lambs' is what you need. Your knackery should mind giving you that. No numbers on it. Will cover for all. You can say the fox got a few aswell.

orm0nd

Was talking to a seasoned sheep farmer last night and he is getting out after this year. I knew he was selling off ewes and lambs all spring but thought he was just overstocked.

Going contract rearing friesian heifers, already some in place and all sheep will be gone by October.

Has some of the best land in the area and a lot of fencing done under tams.

Green farmer

orm0nd wrote: »

Was talking to a seasoned sheep farmer last night and he is getting out after this year. I knew he was selling off ewes and lambs all spring but thought he was just overstocked.

Going contract rearing friesian heifers, already some in place and all sheep will be gone by October.

Has some of the best land in the area and a lot of fencing done under tams.

Sad to hear, maybe another lad sick of the constant messing by the factories.

wrangler

Green farmer wrote: »

Sad to hear, maybe another lad sick of the constant messing by the factories.

I'd be hoping that farmers don't start undercutting to get the rearing contracts. It'll just turn into another ''race to the bottom'' and, just like Larry, Irish dairy farmers wouldn't half take advantage of the situation........ all you have to do is look at the price of silage
Our lamb group is reducing all the time, there could be interesting times ahead for sheep

Green farmer

wrangler wrote: »

Our lamb group is reducing all the time, there could be interesting times ahead for sheep

Yes, sad really.

Siamsa Sessions

wrangler wrote: »

I'd be hoping that farmers don't start undercutting to get the rearing contracts.

I'm sure I saw a price of 1.50-1.70 per calf per day a few months ago. But 1.30 was quoted in the Journal last week in some article.

The race to the bottom might have already started.

Dinzee Conlee

Green farmer wrote: »

Yes, sad really.

Is it sad?

In most other markets, fewer suppliers means more demand for the suppliers that remain.

The only thing with sheep is they are too easy to get into. If farmers saw lads making good money on sheep one year, they'd be a glut of lambs the next year from everyone trying to cash in...

Siamsa Sessions

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Is it sad?

In most other markets, fewer suppliers means more demand for the suppliers that remain.

The only thing with sheep is they are too easy to get into. If farmers saw lads making good money on sheep one year, they'd be a glut of lambs the next year from everyone trying to cash in...

Have the numbers of lambs slaughtered varied much as people get out of them?

Or has the higher output from those who remain, especially the bigger lads who are really able to push on, nigh on made up the difference?

Green farmer

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Have the numbers of lambs slaughtered varied much as people get out of them?

Or has the higher output from those who remain, especially the bigger lads who are really able to push on, nigh on made up the difference?

No, I think it’s just a matter of the factories flooding the market with whatever they need coming on the ferry to control the price. Seems they don’t care if they drive everyone out here, as they’ll just make up the difference from across the water. All the time bord bia washes its hands as to what does and doesn’t get the q.a stamp on it leaving the factory.

stantheman1979

wrangler wrote: »

Again an example of civil servants sitting at a desk making rules and not having a clue about the practicalities of implementing them in the real world.
I wonder what they think of all the wild animals/birds that die in the wild and aren't even buried.
You really should bring it to the attention of your local IFA office as this attitude from the inspector should be nipped in the bud

I think he had every right to ask what happened to the rest of his lambs. 80 lambs from 85 ewes is a pathetic return and is bound to raise questions. Adding to that he had no receipts from the knackery and said he buried them. That’s naive at best. He can have no complaints if he faces deductions

Sheep breeder

Green farmer wrote: »

Sad to hear, maybe another lad sick of the constant messing by the factories.

A lot of people keeping sheep are elderly and all you have to do is go to any mart in the country and look at the age profile, no young fellas wants late nights lambing ewes and the hardships that it brings, especially if he has a job off farm.
My in-laws tell me that sheep are a bad disease and worse than being an alcoholic, due to we can’t do with out them and we thrive on the hardship.