General sheep thread

Lambman

Hows the lambing going for everyone? Put another batch out this morning till free up space mostly all doubles this time from 2 days till a week old... currently running at just less then 9% mortality which is the worst I ever had but hopefully it's a case off bad start good finish. Still a problem with ewes lambing at night. Ewes bit thinner than I expected but see till be milking fine. Hopefully get urea out over the weekend as grass will be next problem.

MeTheMan

It's going is about all I can say. 53 lambs doing well 8 died. Much higher then usual. Lost one ewe as well. Didn't open up right and two huge lambs in her got them out just about, both dead and ewe was dead the next morning. An other ewe got trampled on while feeding and throw out both lambs a few days later, still waiting on the to stand.
And now this eye thing is coming on the lambs again. Sprayed down the whole shed with disinfectant last year and it's back. Could it be in the hay/straw? Starts as a red mark on the eye under the bottom eye lid and slowly progresses to a white cover over the whole eye. Have cream from the vet for it but takes a week to clear up so can't let them out. Could it be from one of the rams? Genetic?

FarmerDougal

Started with 20 aborted lambs, have lost 6 lambs with about 50 Lambed (25% triplets)

Lambman

Had 1 hogget abort 2 lambs about a week ago ewe looks be doing grand now. Lost no ewes Sold 1 foster ewe give neighbour another 1 till rear his 2 pet lambs but I'll get her back end of summer. Still no prolapses which I think is amazing till be honest. Disappointed with mortality rate so far but hope it will improve it's been a few years since I lost a lamb in the fields after leaving shed so hopefully this year will be no different. Few men talking about ewes not milking well for them I know off 2 men near me changed there supplier in middle of lambing over it.

Birdnuts

Lambman wrote: »

Had 1 hogget abort 2 lambs about a week ago ewe looks be doing grand now. Lost no ewes Sold 1 foster ewe give neighbour another 1 till rear his 2 pet lambs but I'll get her back end of summer. Still no prolapses which I think is amazing till be honest. Disappointed with mortality rate so far but hope it will improve it's been a few years since I lost a lamb in the fields after leaving shed so hopefully this year will be no different. Few men talking about ewes not milking well for them I know off 2 men near me changed there supplier in middle of lambing over it.

Mortality rates will be up across the board given the exceptionally tough conditions this lambing season - starting soon myself and really hoping that the weather can only get better the other side of Paddy's day

DJ98

Never got around to giving the ewes a fluke dose over the winter, would there be any issues with giving them one as there being turned out after lambing?

Lano Lynn

not lambing yet
but have been up to take lambs for neighbours ,
he bought 10 texel cross hoggets last year almost all of them that have lambed had to be assisted and three lambs lost so far .
So do the math how much more can you spend on good maternal type ewes like Mules etc over and above texels.

Well done Texel breeders neglecting female Functionality in your breeding has lost you another customer:mad::mad:I now advise people not to buy texel cross ewes

wrangler

Lano Lynn wrote: »

not lambing yet
but have been up to take lambs for neighbours ,
he bought 10 texel cross hoggets last year almost all of them that have lambed had to be assisted and three lambs lost so far .
So do the math how much more can you spend on good maternal type ewes like Mules etc over and above texels.

Well done Texel breeders neglecting female Functionality in your breeding has lost you another customer:mad::mad:I now advise people not to buy texel cross ewes

Are they first time lambers in lamb to texels or what,
Could be overfed singles either

Lano Lynn

wrangler wrote: »

Are they first time lambers in lamb to texels or what,
Could be overfed singles either

no,the lambs were twins ,in lamb to Suffolk ,just not enough hole.other ewes lambing fine.
It is as simple as this texel breeders have spent to much effort breeding big heads and not breeding big pelvises to go with it .Fashion over function. and this is not the only farm I have this problem on (they are shifting from texel ewes too)

far to many texels are got by ET with mule ewes carrying the lamb.If texel breeders themselves have no confidence in the ability of their ewes to lamb naturally why should we?.(It is now almost standard practice for a texel breech to be automaticly a csection).

I don't think we and our sheep as commercial producers should have to suffer the consequences. It is shameful bad husbandry and a pitiful misuse of a brilliant technique that could yield real genetic progress .

I have been an ardent user of texels since the mid '80s but I am very critical of how the breed has been destroyed by bad husbandry ranging from texel throat, high incidence of mastitis, lambing difficulties ,Prolapseing and lambs stalling at 38kg.oh and I almost forgot, lambs with no eyes .

wrangler

Lano Lynn wrote: »

no,the lambs were twins ,in lamb to Suffolk ,just not enough hole.other ewes lambing fine.
It is as simple as this texel breeders have spent to much effort breeding big heads and not breeding big pelvises to go with it .Fashion over function. and this is not the only farm I have this problem on (they are shifting from texel ewes too)

far to many texels are got by ET with mule ewes carrying the lamb.If texel breeders themselves have no confidence in the ability of their ewes to lamb naturally why should we?.(It is now almost standard practice for a texel breech to be automaticly a csection).

I don't think we and our sheep as commercial producers should have to suffer the consequences. It is shameful bad husbandry and a pitiful misuse of a brilliant technique that could yield real genetic progress .

I have been an ardent user of texels since the mid '80s but I am very critical of how the breed has been destroyed by bad husbandry ranging from texel throat, high incidence of mastitis, lambing difficulties ,Prolapseing and lambs stalling at 38kg.oh and I almost forgot, lambs with no eyes .

Most of the problems in sheep farming are due to management, Texel are dual purpose and like the dual purpose cookers of years ago they don't excel at either purpose.
I think ewes are great little soldiers, I obviously accept more hassle than you

charolais0153

wrangler wrote: »

Most of the problems in sheep farming are due to management, Texel are dual purpose and like the dual purpose cookers of years ago they don't excel at either purpose.
I think ewes are great little soldiers, I obviously accept more hassle than you

Ido think that the bredders arenot even trying to improve the maternal side of the ewes... If the breeders were to cull hard it would save an awful lot of problems for the commercial man

charolais0153

charolais0153 wrote: »

Ido think that the bredders arenot even trying to improve the maternal side of the ewes... If the breeders were to cull hard it would save an awful lot of problems for the commercial man

Alot of the problems with texel pedigree is the sheer amount of money tied up in them...id know lads who wouldnt be near the top breeders but would have spent 15-20K plus getting into them and wouldnt be talking huge numbers either


They literally cant afford to cull hard,but it is passing on massive problems to commerial breeders (who should be their main customers,not other pedigree breeders)......

I breed roughly 40 replacements one year off 2 different texel rams,3 years later only 4 left off 1 ram and 18 off the other,so there is good texels out there(i record way more info than i need to tbh)....but jesus,the society do need to get a handle before they destroy the breed

Ard_MC

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Alot of the problems with texel pedigree is the sheer amount of money tied up in them...id know lads who wouldnt be near the top breeders but would have spent 15-20K plus getting into them and wouldnt be talking huge numbers either


They literally cant afford to cull hard,but it is passing on massive problems to commerial breeders (who should be their main customers,not other pedigree breeders)......

I breed roughly 40 replacements one year off 2 different texel rams,3 years later only 4 left off 1 ram and 18 off the other,so there is good texels out there(i record way more info than i need to tbh)....but jesus,the society do need to get a handle before they destroy the breed

I find it is hard to get texel ram to last. So much so I have no plans to buy another at a society sale again.

Ard_MC

Ard_MC wrote: »

I find it is hard to get texel ram to last. So much so I have no plans to buy another at a society sale again.

Tbf i do get 4-5 years out of them,

I buy as ram lambs as suits me better and can get better value for money aswell,maybe they arent as "forced on" as hoggets??

I tend to get rid of then,as they be related to alot of my ewes,but imo could get 1 to 2 more years

But that being said,i have had to get rid at 3 to 4 years old aswell previously

Lano Lynn

Deleted User wrote: »

Alot of the problems with texel pedigree is the sheer amount of money tied up in them...id know lads who wouldnt be near the top breeders but would have spent 15-20K plus getting into them and wouldnt be talking huge numbers either


They literally cant afford to cull hard,but it is passing on massive problems to commerial breeders (who should be their main customers,not other pedigree breeders)......

I breed roughly 40 replacements one year off 2 different texel rams,3 years later only 4 left off 1 ram and 18 off the other,so there is good texels out there(i record way more info than i need to tbh)....but jesus,the society do need to get a handle before they destroy the breed

couldn't agree more had a ram in the 80's his daughters all had mastitis by third crop.another ram that pedigree breeders had no meas on because his wool was not tight enough and head to 'plain' bred super females and massive muscle depth (he was bought on his muscle LMI of 38 )

the breeders are making the same mistakes as were made with angus and other cattle breeds and Suffolk sheep that is swallowing the sh1te and spin of Scottish etc 'top breeders'

in terms of investment I can understand your point if you plough a couple of grand into an inlamb hogget and she has to get a csection and then mastitis you just have to flush her next year to a ram that has been bred out of a long line of mastitis,prolapses, texel throat,and csections but some smart lad with a fortune from windturbines north of hadrians wall has burnt 60-70 grand in Lanark so he must be right. There is nothing better to screw up a breed than to much money.

Lano Lynn

Lano Lynn wrote: »

couldn't agree more had a ram in the 80's his daughters all had mastitis by third crop.another ram that pedigree breeders had no meas on because his wool was not tight enough and head to 'plain' bred super females and massive muscle depth (he was bought on his muscle LMI of 38 )

the breeders are making the same mistakes as were made with angus and other cattle breeds and Suffolk sheep that is swallowing the sh1te and spin of Scottish etc 'top breeders'

in terms of investment I can understand your point if you plough a couple of grand into an inlamb hogget and she has to get a csection and then mastitis you just have to flush her next year to a ram that has been bred out of a long line of mastitis,prolapses, texel throat,and csections but some smart lad with a fortune from windturbines north of hadrians wall has burnt 60-70 grand in Lanark so he must be right. There is nothing better to screw up a breed than to much money.

I went to the premier sale in blessington one year with 2 mates (who do be into breeding),like ram lambs making 10K

Fair play and all luck due to the buyers,but there was what to.me looked better shape (length,width and carcass depth) didnt make anything close to it,based on head being wrong shape(pointy)??

Though suffocks are making a come back and see an odd nice ram appearing on donedeal,not too big head,bones normal size etc,nice shape,not.rotten with **** either....

i swore blind off them after all hardship i got growing up when father away working (big dopey lambs who couldnt lift heads to suck,teats too big for lambs,every second sat seemed to be spent clipping sh1te etc),but giving serious consideration to chancing another for replacements......so long as can keep lambing rate above 1.8 and lively lambs with less work,id be happy enough

wrangler

Deleted User wrote: »

I went to the premier sale in blessington one year with 2 mates (who do be into breeding),like ram lambs making 10K

Fair play and all luck due to the buyers,but there was what to.me looked better shape (length,width and carcass depth) didnt make anything close to it,based on head being wrong shape(pointy)??

Though suffocks are making a come back and see an odd nice ram appearing on donedeal,not too big head,bones normal size etc,nice shape,not.rotten with **** either....

i swore blind off them after all hardship i got growing up when father away working (big dopey lambs who couldnt lift heads to suck,teats too big for lambs,every second sat seemed to be spent clipping sh1te etc),but giving serious consideration to chancing another for replacements......so long as can keep lambing rate above 1.8 and lively lambs with less work,id be happy enough

I always buy more feminine texel rams ,no point in looking for trouble .

Buford T. Justice XIX

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I went to the premier sale in blessington one year with 2 mates (who do be into breeding),like ram lambs making 10K

Fair play and all luck due to the buyers,but there was what to.me looked better shape (length,width and carcass depth) didnt make anything close to it,based on head being wrong shape(pointy)??

Though suffocks are making a come back and see an odd nice ram appearing on donedeal,not too big head,bones normal size etc,nice shape,not.rotten with **** either....

i swore blind off them after all hardship i got growing up when father away working (big dopey lambs who couldnt lift heads to suck,teats too big for lambs,every second sat seemed to be spent clipping sh1te etc),but giving serious consideration to chancing another for replacements......so long as can keep lambing rate above 1.8 and lively lambs with less work,id be happy enough

The NZ Suffolk are worth a look at, a lot of the poor performance of the Irish bred doesn't seem to appear in the NZ bred ones.

Siamsa Sessions

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

The NZ Suffolk are worth a look at, a lot of the poor performance of the Irish bred doesn't seem to appear in the NZ bred ones.

I have 25 ewe lambs here out of a NZ Suffolk that'll go to a Texel or CharTex ram this year.

They're out of maternal-X ewes with plenty Belclare, Llyens, and mules. So far, they're growing well and a decent size for 12-month animals. Little bit leggy maybe but I'm hoping their lambs will be OK once crossed with Texel/CharTex

Lambman

Bought 6 pedigree texel ram lambs here 3 or 4 years ago. 2 a them were et twins 1 had a eweish head and the other a big blocky head anyways blocky head was 1st ram sold and eweish head the 2nd last even though till me he had the best height and length. I've a charollais ram here getting up in years and not looking great at the min but I wudn sell him great breeder great lambs and good on his feet. Bought him as a lamb for decent money as he was a winner at 2 local shows. Learn from your mistakes if u had trouble in the past with a certain breed or certain characteristics in a breed look elsewhere. Everybody is going till be different.

Lano Lynn

it is interesting the rise in charollais x texel and leister x texel rams a reflection of commercial breeders requirement as opposed to pedigree societies fantasies.

wrangler

Lano Lynn wrote: »

it is interesting the rise in charollais x texel and leister x texel rams a reflection of commercial breeders requirement as opposed to pedigree societies fantasies.

Same pedigree breeders are breeding the crossbreds in a lot of cases.
It's not rocket science..... growth rate of charolais and shape/wool of texel,
of course 50% will have texel growth and charolais wool and conformation ...... as will their progeny IYKWIM

Lano Lynn

wrangler wrote: »

Same pedigree breeders are breeding the crossbreds in a lot of cases.
It's not rocket science..... growth rate of charolais and shape/wool of texel,
of course 50% will have texel growth and charolais wool and conformation ...... as will their progeny IYKWIM

pedigree breeding isn't rocket science either ……...once upon a time someone crossed a southdown with a Norfolk horn...….ever noticed how the Suffolk changed as the oxford down disappeared...there even was a time when france had huge numbers of southdowns and then suddenly they had vendeens and charollais?

if 'pedigree breeders' paid more heed to good husbandry and learned from NZ models we could have a much better sheep industry

Buford T. Justice VI

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

The NZ Suffolk are worth a look at, a lot of the poor performance of the Irish bred doesn't seem to appear in the NZ bred ones.

Any ive seen advertised on donedeal tbh,look poor enough sheep and id question their killout quality,but this could.just be whats advertised??


I dont mean to sound dismissive and i do keep eye out on the donedeal for them

Sheep breeder

Lano Lynn wrote: »

no,the lambs were twins ,in lamb to Suffolk ,just not enough hole.other ewes lambing fine.
It is as simple as this texel breeders have spent to much effort breeding big heads and not breeding big pelvises to go with it .Fashion over function. and this is not the only farm I have this problem on (they are shifting from texel ewes too)

far to many texels are got by ET with mule ewes carrying the lamb.If texel breeders themselves have no confidence in the ability of their ewes to lamb naturally why should we?.(It is now almost standard practice for a texel breech to be automaticly a csection).

I don't think we and our sheep as commercial producers should have to suffer the consequences. It is shameful bad husbandry and a pitiful misuse of a brilliant technique that could yield real genetic progress .

I have been an ardent user of texels since the mid '80s but I am very critical of how the breed has been destroyed by bad husbandry ranging from texel throat, high incidence of mastitis, lambing difficulties ,Prolapseing and lambs stalling at 38kg.oh and I almost forgot, lambs with no eyes .

You have forgot about the two big new trends with texels, the black eye duct and the wool peelers and very important to have these things, only joking. Amazing how a few can become pied pipers and lead a breed away from the basics.

ganmo

I remember watching the ram class in Charollais in tullamore one year.
One of the rams had a broken mouth. Now saying that there was only 3 rams in the class so the broken mouth one was still going to get a ribbon.
So whos to blame, the breeders for not sending enough competitors to the show? The show for making it too expensive? The judging for giving a prize to a broken mouth sheep?
Pedigrees should be judged as sheep first and the breed second

J.O. Farmer

ganmo wrote: »

I remember watching the ram class in Charollais in tullamore one year.
One of the rams had a broken mouth. Now saying that there was only 3 rams in the class so the broken mouth one was still going to get a ribbon.
So whos to blame, the breeders for not sending enough competitors to the show? The show for making it too expensive? The judging for giving a prize to a broken mouth sheep?
Pedigrees should be judged as sheep first and the breed second

Do you mean he was old and lost teeth or something else. He could still be a better sheep than a younger sheep and old age would indicate longevity.

ganmo

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Do you mean he was old and lost teeth or something else. He could still be a better sheep than a younger sheep and old age would indicate longevity.

no the teeth were actually crossed. It was fairly awful looking

wrangler

ganmo wrote: »

no the teeth were actually crossed. It was fairly awful looking

I've judged at plenty of shows and you just put the sheep in order of merit,
You don't disqualify sheep, If there's three rosettes and only three sheep, the incorrect sheep comes third.

wrangler

Lano Lynn wrote: »

pedigree breeding isn't rocket science either ……...once upon a time someone crossed a southdown with a Norfolk horn...….ever noticed how the Suffolk changed as the oxford down disappeared...there even was a time when france had huge numbers of southdowns and then suddenly they had vendeens and charollais?

if 'pedigree breeders' paid more heed to good husbandry and learned from NZ models we could have a much better sheep industry

I'd consider the NZ suffolk a poor sheep, the holstein of sheep breeding