General sheep thread

Bleating Lamb

Lambman wrote: »

Random question here but I seem till have 1 paddock less than 2 acres that I believe must have leather jackets (cutworms) anyways I heard the spray for it was taken off the market but people wreckon sheep dip sprayed on late evening or earl early morning will kill them? Any truth in it? What kinda dip? What ratio?

Just looked up an image of those ‘cut worms’ as I have one field of average quality soil which has always had flagons (v hard to kill) and around this time of year in the evenings in mild weather these horrible black slug like worms appear up out of the soil!
They are not unlike those ‘cut worms’ in appearance but fatter and a black colour.

Wonder what they are?

wrangler

We used charolais ram for first time this year, a double 5 star from james murphy, minus 20 days to slaughter.
We the lambs today.
Charolais gained 330g/day
Lleyns gained 270g/day
texels gained 255g/day
Vendeens were born from one year old ewes and gained 305g/day
vendeens were all reared as singles

Young95

wrangler wrote: »

We used charolais ram for first time this year, a double 5 star from james murphy, minus 20 days to slaughter.
We the lambs today.
Charolais gained 330g/day
Lleyns gained 270g/day
texels gained 255g/day
Vendeens were born from one year old ewes and gained 305g/day
vendeens were all reared as singles

Your lleyns have done very well !

kk.man

wrangler wrote: »

We used charolais ram for first time this year, a double 5 star from james murphy, minus 20 days to slaughter.
We the lambs today.
Charolais gained 330g/day
Lleyns gained 270g/day
texels gained 255g/day
Vendeens were born from one year old ewes and gained 305g/day
vendeens were all reared as singles

How did you find them lambing (the charolais)?

wrangler

kk.man wrote: »

How did you find them lambing (the charolais)?

Easy lambed, same as vendeen or lleyn but they look terrible for first few days. you'd see one with hump on their back and when you catch him to bring him in you'd find him warm with a full belly.
They grow well though

charolais0153

wrangler wrote: »

We used charolais ram for first time this year, a double 5 star from james murphy, minus 20 days to slaughter.
We the lambs today.
Charolais gained 330g/day
Lleyns gained 270g/day
texels gained 255g/day
Vendeens were born from one year old ewes and gained 305g/day
vendeens were all reared as singles

Very interesting, really surprised the texel is so low tbh,

DJ98

Is the tams grant still open for applications?

Tileman

DJ98 wrote: »

Is the tams grant still open for applications?

Yep. Current tranche was extended to beginning of June and then re opens . Closes completely in 31 st dec and the chances of it continuing are decking due to huge budget deficit for the exchequer

Young95

How did the lads who buy and finish stores fined the last few months in the end ? Between price and the weather and costs etc Involved in the lambs ? Where uz happy with the outcome? Will youz buy an extra few stores this autumn?

White Clover

Are creep feeders covered in TAMS ?

Dickie10

yes very happy great prices from mid january on, the trick with stores is not to panic shipping them off at low kill outs in mid january , if you can leave lighter lambs til paddys day they gain weight with age, its that and power of spring grass from mid feb onwards, even if you think you have no grass they power on , as a rule you wouldnt want anymore than 1/4 of your bought in stores still there on paddys day but the bottom 20% is grand , these are the ones that come into decent money from paddys day on as hoggets get scarce, of course this system dosent suit everyone to be able to do that, which is why there ends up a good twist in it almost every year. i buy every year from Kenmare mart, sheep trade is so fickle and changes on a sixpence so you have to buy into a system , get it working well for you and keep at it. lads dip in and out of the game usually dont do as well . you need the right set up etc

stantheman1979

Young95 wrote: »

How did the lads who buy and finish stores fined the last few months in the end ? Between price and the weather and costs etc Involved in the lambs ? Where uz happy with the outcome? Will youz buy an extra few stores this autumn?

Same as most years really. Happy with the outcome. The price generally goes up in spring. We would buy over a thousand lambs every year in late autumn and winter and fatten all indoors so weather not a factor. The main thing is buy lambs and ration for the right price. No point buying expensive lambs for a small margin at the end.

Dinzee Conlee

stantheman1979 wrote: »

Same as most years really. Happy with the outcome. The price generally goes up in spring. We would buy over a thousand lambs every year in late autumn and winter and fatten all indoors so weather not a factor. The main thing is buy lambs and ration for the right price. No point buying expensive lambs for a small margin at the end.

Bit of a hard one to answer maybe, but is there a ‘magic’ price / kg that you would consider the right price Stan?

I buy a few store lambs every year, sell some in spring, more in summer for breeding.
This year was ok for me - price was good, weather was poor. My forage crop didn’t do well, so worked out more expensive to get them to factory weights than I had planned. More ration fed. But overall, it was ok... a good price makes up for a lot...

Green farmer

For indoor finishing would scale be the answer ? Otherwise, low stocked outdoor and let the spring grass finish them for you ? That's what did and didnt work here anyway

DJ98

How many 45kg lambs or ewes would a 9.5 x 4. 5 trailers hold? Would you get 15 lambs into it?

kk.man

DJ98 wrote: »

How many 45kg lambs or ewes would a 9.5 x 4. 5 trailers hold? Would you get 15 lambs into it?

I would fit 12 ewe hoggets into a 8x5... So I'd say you would but it be the max.

kk.man

Green farmer wrote: »

For indoor finishing would scale be the answer ? Otherwise, low stocked outdoor and let the spring grass finish them for you ? That's what did and didnt work here anyway

I think you have hit the nail on the head there GF. outdoor low stocking and indoor IMO would want to be add lib meal and good quality forage but with this system you are depending on a decent price rise for it to pay. I have read figures for indoor of around 35e as costs to finish.

stantheman1979

kk.man wrote: »

I think you have hit the nail on the head there GF. outdoor low stocking and indoor IMO would want to be add lib meal and good quality forage but with this system you are depending on a decent price rise for it to pay. I have read figures for indoor of around 35e as costs to finish.

Yeah that’s what we do. Big framed horned ram lambs 30kgs + All indoors on meal ad-lib. They are shorn, dosed, foot bathed and in on slats until they are finished. They are weighed every 10 days and can eat a bale in the yard while they are standing around. That’s the only forage they get. They cost average €62 this year and meal/medical was €29 each. Average price was €127 all sold from January on

Young95

stantheman1979 wrote: »

Yeah that’s what we do. Big framed horned ram lambs 30kgs + All indoors on meal ad-lib. They are shorn, dosed, foot bathed and in on slats until they are finished. They are weighed every 10 days and can eat a bale in the yard while they are standing around. That’s the only forage they get. They cost average €62 this year and meal/medical was €29 each. Average price was €127 all sold from January on

So you made a net profit of 36 euro a head ? That’s very good if so ! I May as well sell all the ewes and just go pure stores if that’s the margin in doing stores !!

Siamsa Sessions

kk.man wrote: »

I would fit 12 ewe hoggets into a 8x5... So I'd say you would but it be the max.

Similar question - would you fit 8 lambs, 45kg, into an 6x4 trailer?

wrangler

Young95 wrote: »

So you made a net profit of 36 euro a head ? That’s very good if so ! I May as well sell all the ewes and just go pure stores if that’s the margin in doing stores !!

Probably need a 7 - 8000 sq ft slatted shed before you start buying stores

stantheman1979

wrangler wrote: »

Probably need a 7 - 8000 sq ft slatted shed before you start buying stores

I’m afraid not. It’s a 80ft x 40ft slatted both sides with a 9ft passage down the centre. 2 home made feeders both sides made outta marine ply that will fit 3 ton each meal blown in from outside. Nothing fancy. I won’t disclose how many we can put in it but you could say they are tight.

stantheman1979

Young95 wrote: »

So you made a net profit of 36 euro a head ? That’s very good if so ! I May as well sell all the ewes and just go pure stores if that’s the margin in doing stores !!

It’s not quite that good. You gotta subtract the dead ones and haulage also but I’m sure it’s over €30. We made more out of stores versus rearing our own every year. Simple system. Buy cheap lambs at end of the year, price generally goes up in new year you can’t lose. When you sell a load get more to replace them. Keep sheep moving.
If someone wants to lamb sheep and look after them all year and sell me a well framed 32 kg lamb for €50-€60 I’ll take hand and all. Sure they’ve done the hard work for you!! All I gotta do is let him eat until he reaches 45 kg.

kk.man

stantheman1979 wrote: »

It’s not quite that good. You gotta subtract the dead ones and haulage also but I’m sure it’s over €30. We made more out of stores versus rearing our own every year. Simple system. Buy cheap lambs at end of the year, price generally goes up in new year you can’t lose. When you sell a load get more to replace them. Keep sheep moving.
If someone wants to lamb sheep and look after them all year and sell me a well framed 32 kg lamb for €50-€60 I’ll take hand and all. Sure they’ve done the hard work for you!! All I gotta do is let him eat until he reaches 45 kg.

I'm not being negative here but they don't always rise. I got caught badly in the 90s one year.
When they rise they got to rise to pay the expenses and a good margin for the work. These last few years rise was above the norm.

stantheman1979

stantheman1979 wrote: »

It’s not quite that good. You gotta subtract the dead ones and haulage also but I’m sure it’s over €30. We made more out of stores versus rearing our own every year. Simple system. Buy cheap lambs at end of the year, price generally goes up in new year you can’t lose. When you sell a load get more to replace them. Keep sheep moving.
If someone wants to lamb sheep and look after them all year and sell me a well framed 32 kg lamb for €50-€60 I’ll take hand and all. Sure they’ve done the hard work for you!! All I gotta do is let him eat until he reaches 45 kg.

The most expensive part of a lamb,is getting it born

Always amuses me,lads complaining about cost of creep/minerals/doses etc....but think nothing of a 10% mortality rate among lambs or leaving sheep to their own devices overnight,while lambing

stantheman1979

kk.man wrote: »

I'm not being negative here but they don't always rise. I got caught badly in the 90s one year.
When they rise they got to rise to pay the expenses and a good margin for the work. These last few years rise was above the norm.

It’s a calculated risk I grant you but we have made good money from stores the last decade. It’s paid a lot better than sucklers that’s a fact.

razor8

stantheman1979 wrote: »

It’s a calculated risk I grant you but we have made good money from stores the last decade. It’s paid a lot better than sucklers that’s a fact.

What do you do with lambs that have finished but the price still hasn’t risen. Do you keep feeding or take a hit on that batch?

Dickie10

stantheman1979 wrote: »

It’s not quite that good. You gotta subtract the dead ones and haulage also but I’m sure it’s over €30. We made more out of stores versus rearing our own every year. Simple system. Buy cheap lambs at end of the year, price generally goes up in new year you can’t lose. When you sell a load get more to replace them. Keep sheep moving.
If someone wants to lamb sheep and look after them all year and sell me a well framed 32 kg lamb for €50-€60 I’ll take hand and all. Sure they’ve done the hard work for you!! All I gotta do is let him eat until he reaches 45 kg.

that wouldnt suit well with the lads afraid of buying meal.

stantheman1979

razor8 wrote: »

What do you do with lambs that have finished but the price still hasn’t risen. Do you keep feeding or take a hit on that batch?

No as soon as they hit 45kg they are slaughtered. At €90 a lamb to produce you don’t generally take much of a hit. There will be a lot of lambs fattened over a six month period so prices will rise at some stage

Dickie10

kk.man wrote: »

I'm not being negative here but they don't always rise. I got caught badly in the 90s one year.
When they rise they got to rise to pay the expenses and a good margin for the work. These last few years rise was above the norm.

the problem in the 90s was simple oversupply, dairy men with sheep and over 5 million in country around 1992. were down to 2.5 million breeding ewes now i think. huge immigration of muslims into germany, france, holland and belgium also helped drive continental market. we should remember the lamb trade and beef trade are total opposites, we are in direct competition to Britain vying for european market. in beef we export to Britain first and foremost. The elephant in the room is what happens in a no deal/cliff edge Brexit. what happens the lamb brought down from northern ireland and slaughtered in navan as rep of ireland lambs. or worse still the lambs/hoggs bought in Carlisle and shipped down to navan via Larne and slaughtered as republic lambs. supply and demand. if British lambs are forced off the european stage it leaves republic nicely poised to fil that gap. but to be honest theres not a hope we could fill it , we would get hard to keep France supplied alone.