General sheep thread

Ard_MC

White Clover wrote: »

Did they improve when you went away from formalin?

Yes definitely did. Zinc is all I use now. Building a proper footbath to let them stand in for longer at the minute. So hoping that will help as well.

Ard_MC

farawaygrass wrote: »

There is a good mineral lick bucket from grennans, sheep 4 in 1. It states it has the highest level of zinc that is allowed. They promote it for lameness.

Must check it out. Dose them with cobalt and zinc anytime they are through the yard and think I see an improvement in them.

ganmo

You could also dissolve zinc sulphate in water and dose them with it

White Clover

ganmo wrote: »

You could also dissolve zinc sulphate in water and dose them with it

What rate ganmo?

ganmo

White Clover wrote: »

What rate ganmo?

Maximium I'd be comfortable with is 100g in 1L for a 10ml dose.
If you see them getting dirty after it cut the rate

joe35

Are red lambs ok as replacements now or do they have to be over 12 months. Kept on extra lambs this year so might sell a few ewes. Or do I have to wait till the
Lambs are12 months old before selling. TIA

gazahayes

White Clover wrote: »

On the subject of lameness, we'd get a few where a crack would develop between the wall and the sole.
What causes this? Is it a deficiency?
Dirt will get stuck there and cause discomfort, all i can do is pare back the wall until there's nowhere for dirt to get trapped.

Shelly hoof. Have it here with ewe lambs got calsea zinc lick blocks can see on the hoof where it reattached after putting in the block a few weeks back

Dinzee Conlee

gazahayes wrote: »

Shelly hoof. Have it here with ewe lambs got calsea zinc lick blocks can see on the hoof where it reattached after putting in the block a few weeks back

Interesting...
Where did you get them Gaza?

Young95

Good to see the hill farmers association calling for the sheep welfare reference year to be 2020 . Hopefully common sense will prevail.

Dinzee Conlee

Young95 wrote: »

Good to see the hill farmers association calling for the sheep welfare reference year to be 2020 . Hopefully common sense will prevail.

Maybe this is being Devils Advocate - but what is the reason for the Sheep Welfare scheme?
Like, what's the point of it?

Is there any way to see if there is enough money to cover the 2020 census numbers?

wrangler

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Maybe this is being Devils Advocate - but what is the reason for the Sheep Welfare scheme?
Like, what's the point of it?

Is there any way to see if there is enough money to cover the 2020 census numbers?

Census number is around 2.5m, budget is €17m so not enough,

Siamsa Sessions

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Maybe this is being Devils Advocate - but what is the reason for the Sheep Welfare scheme?
Like, what's the point of it?

Is there any way to see if there is enough money to cover the 2020 census numbers?

I think the SWS is a means for the DAFM/EU to support sheep farmers. The measures required to get your tenner/ewe are not much hassle, and many are just standard enough things you'd be doing already (scanning, lameness control, etc.). The big thing when it was being set up was to give farmers plenty options (think there's 9 across the two categories), unlike the suckler schemes such as BDGP where farmers were tied into very specific actions.

The IFA looked for there to be an option of a 3rd action last year. That is, you'd do three things and get €15/ewe instead of two things for €10. But the Dept weren't interested.

The original budget was €25m which was matched to the 2.5m ewes in the country. This figure was taken from the census in 2014-15, hence the reference year being set by what you had on the census then.

That's my understanding of it anyway.

Not everyone joined it though. And I think €17-18m was as much as was ever drawn down. There was spare money and that's why the IFA proposed the 3rd action, to allow those in the scheme to get an extra fiver, rather than have the earmarked money in the Dept of Ag budget go back to the Dept of Finance (or the EU).

It'd be easy then to see if the money was available to cover all the ewes in the 2020 census: multiply the total number of ewes by a tenner. The harder part is trying to get the Dept to push for the reference number to be based on 2020. They are claiming that the EU won't allow it as it might be seen as a coupled payment (that is, it would encourage farmers to produce more). And now we're getting into the real politics of it!

Birdnuts

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

I think the SWS is a means for the DAFM/EU to support sheep farmers. The measures required to get your tenner/ewe are not much hassle, and many are just standard enough things you'd be doing already (scanning, lameness control, etc.). The big thing when it was being set up was to give farmers plenty options (think there's 9 across the two categories), unlike the suckler schemes such as BDGP where farmers were tied into very specific actions.

The IFA looked for there to be an option of a 3rd action last year. That is, you'd do three things and get €15/ewe instead of two things for €10. But the Dept weren't interested.

The original budget was €25m which was matched to the 2.5m ewes in the country. This figure was taken from the census in 2014-15, hence the reference year being set by what you had on the census then.

That's my understanding of it anyway.

Not everyone joined it though. And I think €17-18m was as much as was ever drawn down. There was spare money and that's why the IFA proposed the 3rd action, to allow those in the scheme to get an extra fiver, rather than have the earmarked money in the Dept of Ag budget go back to the Dept of Finance (or the EU).

It'd be easy then to see if the money was available to cover all the ewes in the 2020 census: multiply the total number of ewes by a tenner. The harder part is trying to get the Dept to push for the reference number to be based on 2020. They are claiming that the EU won't allow it as it might be seen as a coupled payment (that is, it would encourage farmers to produce more). And now we're getting into the real politics of it!

Maybe if DAFM did a little thinking outside the box it could release more funds for this eg. linking payments to establishment of herbal lays etc to improve stock heath, reduce wormer use, improve soil structure, biodiversity etc.

wrangler

Birdnuts wrote: »

Maybe if DAFM did a little thinking outside the box it could release more funds for this eg. linking payments to establishment of herbal lays etc to improve stock heath, reduce wormer use, improve soil structure, biodiversity etc.

It was always meant to be an easy to comply with scheme, don't be trying to put problems where there isn't any

Birdnuts

wrangler wrote: »

It was always meant to be an easy to comply with scheme, don't be trying to put problems where there isn't any

The problem is those who don't understand where the CAP is heading and are stuck in the past:rolleyes: ie. away from coupled payments and money for old rope

wrangler

Birdnuts wrote: »

The problem is those who don't understand where the CAP is heading and are stuck in the past:rolleyes: ie. away from coupled payments and money for old rope

There was never enough money in it to include difficult tasks, the tasks were what you'd be doing anyway

Birdnuts

wrangler wrote: »

There was never enough money in it to include difficult tasks, the tasks were what you'd be doing anyway

Thats why the EU will not release extra funds and are questioning the money currently allocated to it. Maintaining the likes of a herbal ley is hardly a "difficult task" in any case and brings many obvious benefits as I mentioned above

wrangler

Birdnuts wrote: »

Thats why the EU will not release extra funds and are questioning the money currently allocated to it. Maintaining the likes of a herbal ley is hardly a "difficult task" in any case and brings many obvious benefits as I mentioned above

Until you can spray nettles and docks in them they're not sustainable. Anyone that sows grass seed knows if you don't spray post emerge that the pasture will be rubbish. We had a field here ready to sow but couldn't get any mixed species seed and sowed grass instead, a lot of weeds came even though it was a clean sheep pasture, how would you manage the likes of that.
No way should that be a task, three month wait for seed, and then for it to fail or spray it off with the weeds. Even dairy farmers only sow a few acres

TommieG90

Hi all, For ewes lambing out still with plenty of grass(all in good condition) how do ye manage the feeding(quantities) of nuts in the last 6-8 weeks all the guidelines I have found have been for housed sheep, Cheers

Birdnuts

wrangler wrote: »

Until you can spray nettles and docks in them they're not sustainable. Anyone that sows grass seed knows if you don't spray post emerge that the pasture will be rubbish. We had a field here ready to sow but couldn't get any mixed species seed and sowed grass instead, a lot of weeds came even though it was a clean sheep pasture, how would you manage the likes of that.
No way should that be a task, three month wait for seed, and then for it to fail or spray it off with the weeds. Even dairy farmers only sow a few acres

Ironically Nettles and Docks are more a feature of monoculture PRG sward due excessive artificial N levels via Chem fert and slurry. Neither are significant features of herbal leys which is another argument for new thinking on such things. The likes of Dandelions, Plantains are preferentially grazed by sheep and work at UCD Lyons have shown better performance of stock under a whole variety of headings on such ground compared to monoculture grassland.

Siamsa Sessions

Birdnuts wrote: »

Ironically Nettles and Docks are more a feature of monoculture PRG sward due excessive artificial N levels via Chem fert and slurry. Neither are significant features of herbal leys which is another argument for new thinking on such things.

I'm in favour of herbal leys and reducing chemical nitrogen use, but I have seen the opposite of what you state here.

We reseeded 4 acres over the past 3 years: 2 with perennial rye grass in 2018 and 2 with a 4-year-mix of herbal ley seeds in 2020. The PRG is as clean now as it was when it emerged first, but admittedly it's not getting any slurry and very little chemical fertiliser. In the herbal ley, the docks emerged with the other grass species. I'm managing it with spot-spraying (yes, I get the irony) and topping but it's certainly tempered my enthusiasm.

Only time will tell which works out better for us.

Kevhog1988

wrangler wrote: »

Census number is around 2.5m, budget is €17m so not enough,

Does that mean new entrants be unlikely to be able to enter into the scheme?

wrangler

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

Does that mean new entrants be unlikely to be able to enter into the scheme?

If I was in the same position as you guys I'd be hounding the politicians especially as I wouldn't be surprised if there's hundreds in the same position, but you'd have to get organised and hit the politicians in every county. It's a stupid anomaly.
What used to annoy me when I was lobbying for something would be the politician saying that they hadn't heard those concerns from any other farmer.

Young95

Just a quick one lads . I scanned the ewes here yesterday and all scanned well at 2 lambs per ewe . There not due till 27th of March . But three ewes scanned early . Most of been a ram lamb job . Anyways just curious is a ewe scanned early due to lamb in a few days or 3 or 4 weeks time . There bagging abit up at present but nothing mad yet . Just looking for a time frame really is all so any advice welcomed.

J.O. Farmer

Young95 wrote: »

Just a quick one lads . I scanned the ewes here yesterday and all scanned well at 2 lambs per ewe . There not due till 27th of March . But three ewes scanned early . Most of been a ram lamb job . Anyways just curious is a ewe scanned early due to lamb in a few days or 3 or 4 weeks time . There bagging abit up at present but nothing mad yet . Just looking for a time frame really is all so any advice welcomed.

If they're only beginning to bag up it's probably a few weeks.
Can you narrow it down to when they could've been with a ram lamb. It might give you the latest possible date and narrow the window for you.

Kevhog1988

When installing plastic slats whats the span of the carrier/beam on them?. Is it 16ft the same as a timber length or can longer be got?

Westernrock

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

When installing plastic slats whats the span of the carrier/beam on them?. Is it 16ft the same as a timber length or can longer be got?

Fibreglass beams are 5m but need a support every 8ft. Stainless steel or galvanised supports can be longer but not as easy worked with as fibreglass.

Westernrock

Westernrock wrote: »

Fibreglass beams are 5m but need a support every 8ft. Stainless steel or galvanised supports can be longer but not as easy worked with as fibreglass.

what price are the stainless steel/galvanised supports per metre??

Westernrock

[Deleted User] wrote: »

what price are the stainless steel/galvanised supports per metre??

Don’t know, I went fibreglass 5m length about €16 I think...

Kevhog1988

Westernrock wrote: »

Don’t know, I went fibreglass 5m length about €16 I think...

Whats needed for a support?. Is there a support they sell similar to a scaffold jack?. or would it need to be a concrete support?.