General sheep thread

farawaygrass

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

net.

I re-read your earlier post. Correct me if I’m wrong but what you are saying is-when people talk about the average industrial wage there are taking no costs from that, ie car, Vhi etc as you mention, therefor when all is said and done you have a lot less left in your pocket.
The accountant would be putting them in against farm tax so what you are left with is after everything like that is paid?
So it’s not comparing like with like when you compare to the average industrial wage? Am I understand you right?
On the 30 k, you are making that up as 400 ewes at €50 a head net profit equals 20k plus 10k subsidy bringing it to 30k?

weatherbyfoxer

farawaygrass wrote: »

I re-read your earlier post. Correct me if I’m wrong but what you are saying is-when people talk about the average industrial wage there are taking no costs from that, ie car, Vhi etc as you mention, therefor when all is said and done you have a lot less left in your pocket.
The accountant would be putting them in against farm tax so what you are left with is after everything like that is paid?
So it’s not comparing like with like when you compare to the average industrial wage? Am I understand you right?
On the 30 k, you are making that up as 400 ewes at €50 a head net profit equals 20k plus 10k subsidy bringing it to 30k?

yes that's my reckoning.

wrangler

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

yes that's my reckoning.

But you need your sheds in place and paid for to make €50/ewe

weatherbyfoxer

wrangler wrote: »

But you need your sheds in place and paid for to make €50/ewe

quite true wrangler,investment in building can have a major effect on profit but all depends on farm and what already available too.

Green farmer

farawaygrass wrote: »

I hear what you are saying about the 10k the farm would leave at 400 ewes, but that’s still a lot of work on top of a full time job, even say for ten months of the year.

Another option is to half the amount of ewes on your farm. Low density, means lower running costs. Join every scheme and keep your off farm job. Would mean less hours worked on farm and less pressure. More time with wife and kids. You might even enjoy the sheep more, as easier managed then if heavily stocked.

Kevhog1988

Green farmer wrote: »

Another option is to half the amount of ewes on your farm. Low density, means lower running costs. Join every scheme and keep your off farm job. Would mean less hours worked on farm and less pressure. More time with wife and kids. You might even enjoy the sheep more, as easier managed then if heavily stocked.

Or keep well stocked and improve handling etc to make your system somewhat intensive but not labour intensive. Would be a good thread actually. Sheep hacks etc

wrangler

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

Or keep well stocked and improve handling etc to make your system somewhat intensive but not labour intensive. Would be a good thread actually. Sheep hacks etc

Lambs have to be at optimum stocking rate to thrive, they don't thrive on grass that's understocked and over grown so it's a fine line.
As you say, labour saving handling units are the key, once trained to the handling unit they are half the effort, they're impatient animals so once they're trapped in the holding pen they are impatient to get out even if it means being dosed in the race on the way. A new paddock after every procedure speed up the job too once the know that's the way it is

Young95

Green farmer wrote: »

Another option is to half the amount of ewes on your farm. Low density, means lower running costs. Join every scheme and keep your off farm job. Would mean less hours worked on farm and less pressure. More time with wife and kids. You might even enjoy the sheep more, as easier managed then if heavily stocked.

I’d agree with that and all throw in outdoor lambing from first of April as well and ur labour saved would be huge .

farawaygrass

wrangler wrote: »

Lambs have to be at optimum stocking rate to thrive, they don't thrive on grass that's understocked and over grown so it's a fine line.
As you say, labour saving handling units are the key, once trained to the handling unit they are half the effort, they're impatient animals so once they're trapped in the holding pen they are impatient to get out even if it means being dosed in the race on the way. A new paddock after every procedure speed up the job too once the know that's the way it is

I found the same as you. Was way under stocked for years and next to impossible to have grass right for animals.
Would you have tried work to a 21 day rotation wrangler when heavily stocked and if so did you put out fertiliser after every grazing or even every second grazing?

Dinzee Conlee

Young95 wrote: »

I’d agree with that and all throw in outdoor lambing from first of April as well and ur labour saved would be huge .

Would it?

We never lambed outdoors - but for the part time lad, I would have thought in a shed where you could keep an eye would be far easier?

Green farmer

Young95 wrote: »

I’d agree with that and all throw in outdoor lambing from first of April as well and ur labour saved would be huge .

Coincidentally when my outdoor lambing is due to commence this year ;-)

Young95

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Would it?

We never lambed outdoors - but for the part time lad, I would have thought in a shed where you could keep an eye would be far easier?

Oh definitely. Pre lambing maybe not or the same . But once lambing begins there is . No moving ever ewe and lamb to individual pens having to feed and water them . Bedding and cleaning out etc . All those small daily jobs add up in time saved when there outdoors I think anyways. And if you can manage I’d right also outside with them lambing on paddocks with high covers of grass and a feed blocks with them there would be no carrying meal around either . Just walk through them few times a day .

Dinzee Conlee

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Would it?

We never lambed outdoors - but for the part time lad, I would have thought in a shed where you could keep an eye would be far easier?

Massive risk of mismothering indoors,you have to be with em all the time

Young95

Green farmer wrote: »

Coincidentally when my outdoor lambing is due to commence this year ;-)

Starting here the 27th of March all outdoors . Fingers crossed this rain and ****ty weather is passed by then !

wrangler

farawaygrass wrote: »

I found the same as you. Was way under stocked for years and next to impossible to have grass right for animals.
Would you have tried work to a 21 day rotation wrangler when heavily stocked and if so did you put out fertiliser after every grazing or even every second grazing?

Most years we'd use half a bag urea at the start of the year and 2 bags 18 6 12 to the acre in September, and try to graze every 15/16 days, at maximum growth 21 days is far too long. we panicked this year and spread nitrogen during the drought end of june and grazing was out of control after that.
We'd wean in june and lambs would get first run on the paddocks and the ewes then after, rotation would extend after that to 21 days maybe more to graze out paddocks and risk of paddocks going stemmy would be less

White Clover

Would there be higher losses with outdoor lambing?
How do lads manage to catch a ewe if she needed assistance? Dog?

Green farmer

White Clover wrote: »

Would there be higher losses with outdoor lambing?
How do lads manage to catch a ewe if she needed assistance? Dog?

No higher then indoor lambing.I lamb in 5 acre paddocks. Walk regularly and let the sheep do their own thing. Scan, feed accordingly, use easily lambing rams on easy lambing maternal ewes and you'll have a low intervention %. A few ways of catching a ewe in difficulty. Wait for her to go down, a few nuts, or guide her near a catching area etc. You'll get a few tricks to do it. I've no dog to help, but manage grand. Used lamb indoors, prefer outdoor now as suits me better and way less work. But, every setup is different and what suits me might not suit someone else.

Dinzee Conlee

Green farmer wrote: »

No higher then indoor lambing.I lamb in 5 acre paddocks. Walk regularly and let the sheep do their own thing. Scan, feed accordingly, use easily lambing rams on easy lambing maternal ewes and you'll have a low intervention %. A few ways of catching a ewe in difficulty. Wait for her to go down, a few nuts, or guide her near a catching area etc. You'll get a few tricks to do it. I've no dog to help, but manage grand. Used lamb indoors, prefer outdoor now as suits me better and way less work. But, every setup is different and what suits me might not suit someone else.

Would lads have a much lower stocking rate when lambing outside - as I assume the sheep wouldn’t be off the land at any time, so the ground wouldn’t have the rest period it might get from putting em into a shed for a month or two?

Not trying to run it down. As Green suggested earlier - less sheep might not make that much difference to your pocket when you don’t have the indoor costs...

Dickie10

id love to know more about outdoor lambing if someone wants to put a thread up on the topic. i am off 2 weeks each easter often thought of ram effect on a batch of ewes and all outside, see what results are vs february lambing

weatherbyfoxer

Green farmer wrote: »

No higher then indoor lambing.I lamb in 5 acre paddocks. Walk regularly and let the sheep do their own thing. Scan, feed accordingly, use easily lambing rams on easy lambing maternal ewes and you'll have a low intervention %. A few ways of catching a ewe in difficulty. Wait for her to go down, a few nuts, or guide her near a catching area etc. You'll get a few tricks to do it. I've no dog to help, but manage grand. Used lamb indoors, prefer outdoor now as suits me better and way less work. But, every setup is different and what suits me might not suit someone else.

would it be mainly be single your lambing out?..have some 2yr old mules carrying twins here id be tempted to try a few of them out ..due after paddy day so weather might not be too bad

White Clover

Green farmer wrote: »

No higher then indoor lambing.I lamb in 5 acre paddocks. Walk regularly and let the sheep do their own thing. Scan, feed accordingly, use easily lambing rams on easy lambing maternal ewes and you'll have a low intervention %. A few ways of catching a ewe in difficulty. Wait for her to go down, a few nuts, or guide her near a catching area etc. You'll get a few tricks to do it. I've no dog to help, but manage grand. Used lamb indoors, prefer outdoor now as suits me better and way less work. But, every setup is different and what suits me might not suit someone else.

Thanks for that. What about night time?

Kevhog1988

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

would it be mainly be single your lambing out?..have some 2yr old mules carrying twins here id be tempted to try a few of them out ..due after paddy day so weather might not be too bad

I never lamb indoors but lamb late. Never really lose many. Try and get an easy ram and seems to work

Green farmer

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

would it be mainly be single your lambing out?..

I lamb everything outside. Split into separate groups accordingly to singles , twins etc. Actually find less issues with twins, as slightly smaller then a big single. But every year is different. Things can go wrong outside as easily as indoors, but as long as weather holds up and you control foxes etc, I find it fine.

Green farmer

White Clover wrote: »

Thanks for that. What about night time?

They could lamb anytime, but they seem to mostly lamb early in the morning for some reason.

Edit

I used to be there up to midnight in the shed before and back at 7.00 following morning, when I lambed indoors. Since moved outdoors, I dont disturb them after dark anymore and get a good night's sleep instead.

Birdnuts

Young95 wrote: »

Starting here the 27th of March all outdoors . Fingers crossed this rain and ****ty weather is passed by then !

Thats roughly when it kicks off my end too - and a year like this one is started makes you glad of it too. Neighbour has been doing early lamb the last few years but I suspect he may be about to throw in the towel with the amount of hardship last year and this one with notions of doing it outside quickly abandoned after the first few that dropped lambs losing them to exposure and poor suckling from cold rain stressed ewes.

charolais0153

Green farmer wrote: »

They could lamb anytime, but they seem to mostly lamb early in the morning for some reason.

Edit

I used to be there up to midnight in the shed before and back at 7.00 following morning, when I lambed indoors. Since moved outdoors, I dont disturb them after dark anymore and get a good night's sleep instead.

Out of curiosity, what's your stocking rate.

I've lambed indoors and outdoors and much prefer outdoors. The biggest problem outdoors at lambing is sleety weather, you need good shelter. I find I have plenty of time to do other things at lambing if outdoors. Inside, every animal is a dependent that needs to be hand waited on for bedding, feed, and water. Of course, you need an animal that has a bit of independence itself outdoors too. 25 or 30 sets of twins in a shed of a morning is not my idea of fun to sort out, that's without adding lamb stealers to the mix. Supply minerals, shelter, nutrition and let the stock do the work.

OneMan37

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've lambed indoors and outdoors and much prefer outdoors. The biggest problem outdoors at lambing is sleety weather, you need good shelter. I find I have plenty of time to do other things at lambing if outdoors. Inside, every animal is a dependent that needs to be hand waited on for bedding, feed, and water. Of course, you need an animal that has a bit of independence itself outdoors too. 25 or 30 sets of twins in a shed of a morning is not my idea of fun to sort out, that's without adding lamb stealers to the mix. Supply minerals, shelter, nutrition and let the stock do the work.

I’d love to lamb in early April outdoors, only concern is fox’s. What your experience ?

OneMan37

OneMan37 wrote: »

I’d love to lamb in early April outdoors, only concern is fox’s. What your experience ?

He'll take his share any day of the year, if you let him. I prefer to see if I have a problem at lambing first rather than shooting anything that moves before lambing. There will always be another fox ready to move in.

Kevhog1988

https://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/arid-31009852.html this gives an average profit per acre on it. I wonder does the €125 per acre for sheep farmers include a wage for their own labour.