General sheep thread

Green farmer

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

All Suffolk cross, from NZ Suffolk rams. Their mothers would be a mix with Llyen, Belclare, and mules

Have you had other crops of daughters off the ram put into your flock ? I've heard mixed reports that the nz Suffolks can be aggressive, so wondering if that anything to do with it ?

Sami23

Hi all - just looking for some advice or hints & tips for using this plastic lambing aid to bring the lambs head in a difficult lambing as I always struggle to use it correctly.
Tia

wrangler

Sami23 wrote: »

Hi all - just looking for some advice or hints & tips for using this plastic lambing aid to bring the lambs head in a difficult lambing as I always struggle to use it correctly.
Tia

I often just use similar wire to what's in the lambing aid, I find it easier to work with, everyone to their own I suppose.
Pull a core out of ordinary 3 core electric wire, when you get it around the head twist it a few times that it tightens into the mouth and it'll keep the mouth up

Westernrock

Sami23 wrote: »

Hi all - just looking for some advice or hints & tips for using this plastic lambing aid to bring the lambs head in a difficult lambing as I always struggle to use it correctly.
Tia

https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_library_info.html?product=30e07a9e-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5&showText=1

Diagrams on this website, there are slight variations in that some are more flexible (blue ones in my experience) and are easier worked with inside the ewe. The harder plastic ones (yellow) seem very rigid and slightly harder to position.

I have been using them 20 odd years now and it is the only aid I use lambing ewes, no twines ropes etc just the lamb snare, lube and gloves. I would never put it in the mouth, there’s no need to, just rest it under the jaw have the wire behind the ears and everything will come into line.

The one thing I tell farmers when I’m explaining how to use it is try it in a ewe that doesn’t need it to get used to working with it (eg. taking a second lamb from a ewe with plenty of room). Then when you do go to use it on a ewe that’s tight it will be second nature.

Sami23

Westernrock wrote: »

https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_library_info.html?product=30e07a9e-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5&showText=1

Diagrams on this website, there are slight variations in that some are more flexible (blue ones in my experience) and are easier worked with inside the ewe. The harder plastic ones (yellow) seem very rigid and slightly harder to position.

I have been using them 20 odd years now and it is the only aid I use lambing ewes, no twines ropes etc just the lamb snare, lube and gloves. I would never put it in the mouth, there’s no need to, just rest it under the jaw have the wire behind the ears and everything will come into line.

The one thing I tell farmers when I’m explaining how to use it is try it in a ewe that doesn’t need it to get used to working with it (eg. taking a second lamb from a ewe with plenty of room). Then when you do go to use it on a ewe that’s tight it will be second nature.

Thanks for that - I wouldn't have know that the legs should be in the loop at all.
I just thought it was to bring the head out

Sami23

wrangler wrote: »

I often just use similar wire to what's in the lambing aid, I find it easier to work with, everyone to their own I suppose.
Pull a core out of ordinary 3 core electric wire, when you get it around the head twist it a few times that it tightens into the mouth and it'll keep the mouth up

Do you put the legs in the wire also

wrangler

Sami23 wrote: »

Do you put the legs in the wire also

No I'd have soft ropes on the legs, not every ewe would have room to put the aid under the chin.
We got this last year, find it better than the lambing aid too and would put it around the legs as well when using that one, the legs together holds up the mouth, we'd have soft ropes on the feet with that one as well, the arthritic fingers aren't great for pulling little feet, hence the ropes

https://www.spunhill.co.uk/Products/000d000100030005/ILA04

Sami23

wrangler wrote: »

No I'd have soft ropes on the legs, not every ewe would have room to put the aid under the chin.
We got this last year, find it better than the lambing aid too and would put it around the legs as well when using that one, the legs together holds up the mouth, we'd have soft ropes on the feet with that one as well, the arthritic fingers aren't great for pulling little feet, hence the ropes

https://www.spunhill.co.uk/Products/000d000100030005/ILA04

Great advice as always Wrangler. Thank you

wrangler

Sami23 wrote: »

Great advice as always Wrangler. Thank you

Thanks, the rubber lambing aid seems to be easier manipulated on to the head and it stays on the head better than the wire even though it seems to be for the feet.... anyway each to their own.

Westernrock

Sami23 wrote: »

Thanks for that - I wouldn't have know that the legs should be in the loop at all.
I just thought it was to bring the head out

I only usually put the legs in if I’m dealing with a ringwomb, then I can hold all in please with the snare and roll the cervix back over the crown of the head. Otherwise I just put the snare on the head, and with the hand that’s inside the ewe bring the legs up just in front of the head and then once the head is in the canal I will pull the legs.

Westernrock

wrangler wrote: »

No I'd have soft ropes on the legs, not every ewe would have room to put the aid under the chin.
We got this last year, find it better than the lambing aid too and would put it around the legs as well when using that one, the legs together holds up the mouth, we'd have soft ropes on the feet with that one as well, the arthritic fingers aren't great for pulling little feet, hence the ropes

https://www.spunhill.co.uk/Products/000d000100030005/ILA04

It actually takes less room to put it under the jaw than into the mouth. I have just seen too many cases where I’ve arrived after someone has had a good go with baler twine etc, delivered a healthy lamb to discover it’s had its jaw broken or dislocated by previous attempts at delivery. So I would never advise anyone to put anything in the mouths or around jaws. I know it can be done and I know you have enough experience to know how much pressure is too much etc, just don’t like recommending it myself! 🙈

wrangler

Westernrock wrote: »

It actually takes less room to put it under the jaw than into the mouth. I have just seen too many cases where I’ve arrived after someone has had a good go with baler twine etc, delivered a healthy lamb to discover it’s had its jaw broken or dislocated by previous attempts at delivery. So I would never advise anyone to put anything in the mouths or around jaws. I know it can be done and I know you have enough experience to know how much pressure is too much etc, just don’t like recommending it myself! ��

never broke a jaw, its not pulling the jaw just coming through the mouth. the mouth'll persist in going left or right until it locks in sometimes.
I wouldn't lamb a ewe that had been messed with before, just tell them to get the vet
Just out of interest, a lamb coming head first with the head out, do you push back the head or pull out the leg first

Westernrock

Westernrock wrote: »

https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_library_info.html?product=30e07a9e-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5&showText=1

Diagrams on this website, there are slight variations in that some are more flexible (blue ones in my experience) and are easier worked with inside the ewe. The harder plastic ones (yellow) seem very rigid and slightly harder to position.

I have been using them 20 odd years now and it is the only aid I use lambing ewes, no twines ropes etc just the lamb snare, lube and gloves. I would never put it in the mouth, there’s no need to, just rest it under the jaw have the wire behind the ears and everything will come into line.

The one thing I tell farmers when I’m explaining how to use it is try it in a ewe that doesn’t need it to get used to working with it (eg. taking a second lamb from a ewe with plenty of room). Then when you do go to use it on a ewe that’s tight it will be second nature.

Where can you get the more flexible ones??

I had one,but gave it a lend to someone,and sure the obvious happened,it never re-appeared........find the yellow ones v.ridgid and only had mixed succes softening them in boiling water

Siamsa Sessions

Green farmer wrote: »

Have you had other crops of daughters off the ram put into your flock ? I've heard mixed reports that the nz Suffolks can be aggressive, so wondering if that anything to do with it ?

No other ewes out of them in the flock. There’s 25 of them and they’re all 2 year olds. They’d never have seen me or the yard much so are wild enough in general. And most are grand with the lambs after a few days.

But it’s extra work watching them at the moment and waiting for the next one to lamb wondering if she’s going to puck her lambs too

MIKEKC

wrangler wrote: »

never broke a jaw, its not pulling the jaw just coming through the mouth. the mouth'll persist in going left or right until it locks in sometimes.
I wouldn't lamb a ewe that had been messed with before, just tell them to get the vet
Just out of interest, a lamb coming head first with the head out, do you push back the head or pull out the leg first

For the first time in 35 years pushed the head back last year . Took a lot of pressure to get head in. Won't do it again

wrangler

MIKEKC wrote: »

For the first time in 35 years pushed the head back last year . Took a lot of pressure to get head in. Won't do it again

I always push in the head, OH always pulls out the leg...... it's because of the difference in the size of the wrist/hand..... here anyway, tried going for the leg many times,

Westernrock

wrangler wrote: »

never broke a jaw, its not pulling the jaw just coming through the mouth. the mouth'll persist in going left or right until it locks in sometimes.
I wouldn't lamb a ewe that had been messed with before, just tell them to get the vet
Just out of interest, a lamb coming head first with the head out, do you push back the head or pull out the leg first

I find if you have the snare on evenly over both ears and the feet just in the canal the mouth won’t go sideways, sometimes I would push the lamb back a little and rotate the head one way or another before bringing into canal. Much quicker than trying to get something in the mouth I find.

I haven’t much choice but to lamb them after they’ve been messed with! (I’m the vet) 😂.
I always put heads back, lube them up behind the ears well and lift the vaginal fold up and they always go back in. I never even lamb one with a head and one leg, always put it back and get proper presentation before delivery. It will be grand to bring them with a leg back most of the time but I can’t risk damaging a ewe or a lamb when I’m charging for the service so prefer to do it properly. I would put all back and then go with the snare as if it was from the start, don’t put anything on the head before I put it back iykwim.

orm0nd

Been using the same 2 lambing ropes here for years. Could never work with the snare. Got a run of schammenburg (spelling) here 3 years ago. Try using the snare on them yokes and see how you get on.

wrangler

Westernrock wrote: »

I find if you have the snare on evenly over both ears and the feet just in the canal the mouth won’t go sideways, sometimes I would push the lamb back a little and rotate the head one way or another before bringing into canal. Much quicker than trying to get something in the mouth I find.

I haven’t much choice but to lamb them after they’ve been messed with! (I’m the vet) ��.
I always put heads back, lube them up behind the ears well and lift the vaginal fold up and they always go back in. I never even lamb one with a head and one leg, always put it back and get proper presentation before delivery. It will be grand to bring them with a leg back most of the time but I can’t risk damaging a ewe or a lamb when I’m charging for the service so prefer to do it properly. I would put all back and then go with the snare as if it was from the start, don’t put anything on the head before I put it back iykwim.

I'll definitely bow to your superior experience so
It sickens me to see OH take them out so easy, it's hard work to get them back in, lube is a lifesavr

Westernrock

orm0nd wrote: »

Been using the same 2 lambing ropes here for years. Could never work with the snare. Got a run of schammenburg (spelling) here 3 years ago. Try using the snare on them yokes and see how you get on.

Used the snare on a good run of them here in 2018, hateful disease. You wouldn’t know what you were going to get when a ewe would start lambing. Had a batch of embryos and ended up with only 30% of them on the ground normal, total nightmare!!

Green farmer

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

No other ewes out of them in the flock. There’s 25 of them and they’re all 2 year olds. They’d never have seen me or the yard much so are wild enough in general. And most are grand with the lambs after a few days.

But it’s extra work watching them at the moment and waiting for the next one to lamb wondering if she’s going to puck her lambs too

They should be ok, was looking to get one before, but heard from lads across the water that they can be fiery. I suppose were all just trying different things to see what does and doesnt work around all our farms.

Westernrock

wrangler wrote: »

I'll definitely bow to your superior experience so
It sickens me to see OH take them out so easy, it's hard work to get them back in, lube is a lifesavr

No, you have plenty of experience!! I find it easier to get heads back in if the ewe can be kept standing, also started to lift the fold of the vagina below the anus with one hand seems to make an awful difference getting some of them to go back. If the leg is just back at the knee I suppose they can be brought around handy enough but if they’re flexed Bach from the shoulder you’d want a very small hand to be able to do anything? I guess you have the best of both in your household 😜

Westernrock

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Where can you get the more flexible ones??

I had one,but gave it a lend to someone,and sure the obvious happened,it never re-appeared........find the yellow ones v.ridgid and only had mixed succes softening them in boiling water

https://www.gibsonsonline.ie/product/lambing-aid?gclid=EAIaIQobChMImPaS4t377gIVqujtCh0myQGrEAQYASABEgKXi_D_BwE

I just came across this in a google search, I’m guessing by its colour it’s a flexible one but I’ve never bought anything from them so couldn’t say.

White Clover

Green farmer wrote: »

They should be ok, was looking to get one before, but heard from lads across the water that they can be fiery. I suppose were all just trying different things to see what does and doesnt work around all our farms.

Last year i lambed hoggets (yearlings) with N.Z. Suffolk blood in them. Some of them were terrible for pucking and rejecting lambs, about 5 out of 20 had to be put in the adoption gates for up to a week. I wasn't impressed!

Siamsa Sessions

White Clover wrote: »

Last year i lambed hoggets (yearlings) with N.Z. Suffolk blood in them. Some of them were terrible for pucking and rejecting lambs, about 5 out of 20 had to be put in the adoption gates for up to a week. I wasn't impressed!

Interesting to hear it's not just here it happened then.

Question marks over temperament and mothering ability by the sounds of it.

Green farmer

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Interesting to hear it's not just here it happened then.

Question marks over temperament and mothering ability by the sounds of it.

The nz Suffolks are genetically selected for survivability, growth, hardiness, ability to run on mixed ground. All good traits, but all focused upon producing factory lambs. The maternal traits of Suffolks aren't focused on. Just purely terminal. When looking for the maternal side they focus on nz Romney's etc for those traits.
Sort of found it interesting that athenry choose to spent a fortune running flocks of these sheep, including studying all the maternal sides to these sheep, when that's not what the use them for in New Zealand. Maybe they should have looked at something more relevant such as putting a nz vs irish rams across something like a lleyn or belclare and see which performs the best ?

White Clover

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Interesting to hear it's not just here it happened then.

Question marks over temperament and mothering ability by the sounds of it.

Big question marks imo.
Lambed a good batch of irish bred Suffolk yearlings in 2017. They were fantastic. Head and shoulders ahead of the N.Z.suffolks.

farawaygrass

White Clover wrote: »

That's a good bit from lambing. As wrangler said reduce the feed until they're clearing it in the 5 minutes. Try introducing another small feed sometime during the day if you can manage it. Even 100g each to start with.
I'd give a dose of ketovit to any lady that'd leave the trough early. It helps to halt the slide.

Would ketovut be the same or similar to chanatol?
I have a twin bearing ewe here with twin lamb I’d say. She’s pig fat. I gave her 50 ml of chanatol Just there, along with injecting her with 60ml of calciject. She is depressed enough looking, and not interested in feed at all

farawaygrass

farawaygrass wrote: »

Would ketovut be the same or similar to chanatol?
I have a twin bearing ewe here with twin lamb I’d say. She’s pig fat. I gave her 50 ml of chanatol Just there, along with injecting her with 60ml of calciject. She is depressed enough looking, and not interested in feed at all

She has made a massive improvement since. Very lively again. Hopefully for the long term

Westernrock

farawaygrass wrote: »

She has made a massive improvement since. Very lively again. Hopefully for the long term

If she responded that quickly it was most likely hypocal, keep an eye for any others as it can often affect more than one and if you warm the calcium before giving it it’s absorbed faster.