General sheep thread

Siamsa Sessions

On an all-concentrate diet here too following help and figures from Wrangler. There’s a great booklet here too to work out how much energy/feed sheep need as they get close to lambing, plus how much they get from silage, hay, straw, forage crops, and concentrate, etc. You can work out the maths of it then. Took me 20 mins to make sense of it but it’s easy after that

http://www.eblex.org.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/brp-manual-12-Improving-ewe-nutrition-for-better-returns-281114.pdf

wrangler

razor8 wrote: »

We always try and justify our own system but €25 for silage if making your own seems excessive to me. Granted you won’t buy quality for less than that

What's the contractors charge per bale and as you see there if I sell for €8 bale and they mow and bale I put it back on the land as 10 10 20, I doubt if it's enough though.
The work only starts when your contractor goes

wrangler

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

On an all-concentrate diet here too following help and figures from Wrangler. There’s a great booklet here too to work out how much energy/feed sheep need as they get close to lambing, plus how much they get from silage, hay, straw, forage crops, and concentrate, etc. You can work out the maths of it then. Took me 20 mins to make sense of it but it’s easy after that

http://www.eblex.org.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/brp-manual-12-Improving-ewe-nutrition-for-better-returns-281114.pdf

In fairness there's some good articles on the IFJ today......but then you probably wouldn't buy one of those

Green farmer

There’s also hidden cost as what a cut of silage depletes from the land in addition to the loss of grazing paddocks at peak time of year. Hard to know the correct answer really.

FarmerDougal

razor8 wrote: »

We always try and justify our own system but €25 for silage if making your own seems excessive to me. Granted you won’t buy quality for less than that

Worked out costs for own silage here because we’re selling some and didn’t want to make a profit or ask too little. Bales are getting 40€ and pit 45/ton. We’re still taking the risk of making it at that price, have loads of it and not pushed on selling it at that money either

wrangler

FarmerDougal wrote: »

Worked out costs for own silage here because we’re selling some and didn’t want to make a profit or ask too little. Bales are getting 40€ and pit 45/ton. We’re still taking the risk of making it at that price, have loads of it and not pushed on selling it at that money either

What do you reckon it costs to make a bale, I assume you're including a land cost as well

AntrimGlens

With all the chat about feeding silage and then trying to work out what levels of concentrate to feed ewes, does no-one get their silage analysed? I always get mine done, so then i know the dmd and % protein, so just follow the feeding recommendations on the report. This year based on 11.4 ME, 10.6% Protein and 72 DM silage if I feed a 19% nut I only need to feed twin bearing ewes 0.2kg from 4 - 2 weeks and then 0.42kg from 2 weeks out to lambing.

Now in fairness with the year that it is, i reckon I'll either add a bit of straight soya to the ration or increase feed levels slightly as ewes will be under pressure, although they'll not be lambing until 25th March and hopefully grass will have arrived by then.
I think the straw system works well in systems like yours Wrangler, Sam wharrys and issac crillys where no silage is being made on the farm to maximise stocking rates, although i'd personally be nervous about stocking at some of you guys rates in a late spring.

wrangler

AntrimGlens wrote: »

With all the chat about feeding silage and then trying to work out what levels of concentrate to feed ewes, does no-one get their silage analysed? I always get mine done, so then i know the dmd and % protein, so just follow the feeding recommendations on the report. This year based on 11.4 ME, 10.6% Protein and 72 DM silage if I feed a 19% nut I only need to feed twin bearing ewes 0.2kg from 4 - 2 weeks and then 0.42kg from 2 weeks out to lambing.

Now in fairness with the year that it is, i reckon I'll either add a bit of straight soya to the ration or increase feed levels slightly as ewes will be under pressure, although they'll not be lambing until 25th March and hopefully grass will have arrived by then.
I think the straw system works well in systems like yours Wrangler, Sam wharrys and issac crillys where no silage is being made on the farm to maximise stocking rates, although i'd personally be nervous about stocking at some of you guys rates in a late spring.

We've a snacker here for post lambing if we run tight in the spring, we haven't needed it after lambing since 2012 but it's a good reserve.
Though this is looking like it's gonna be another late growth

razor8

AntrimGlens wrote: »

With all the chat about feeding silage and then trying to work out what levels of concentrate to feed ewes, does no-one get their silage analysed? I always get mine done, so then i know the dmd and % protein, so just follow the feeding recommendations on the report. This year based on 11.4 ME, 10.6% Protein and 72 DM silage if I feed a 19% nut I only need to feed twin bearing ewes 0.2kg from 4 - 2 weeks and then 0.42kg from 2 weeks out to lambing.

Now in fairness with the year that it is, i reckon I'll either add a bit of straight soya to the ration or increase feed levels slightly as ewes will be under pressure, although they'll not be lambing until 25th March and hopefully grass will have arrived by then.
I think the straw system works well in systems like yours Wrangler, Sam wharrys and issac crillys where no silage is being made on the farm to maximise stocking rates, although i'd personally be nervous about stocking at some of you guys rates in a late spring.

I thought you gave up on lambing sheep. Have you made any changes or modifications to simplify things?

razor8

wrangler wrote: »

What's the contractors charge per bale and as you see there if I sell for €8 bale and they mow and bale I put it back on the land as 10 10 20, I doubt if it's enough though.
The work only starts when your contractor goes

Might be a bit low alright wasn’t adding in cost of wrap. Contractor charges €10 plus €5 fertilizer and €3 for wrap sound right to others?

kk.man

razor8 wrote: »

wrangler wrote: »

What's the contractors charge per bale and as you see there if I sell for €8 bale and they mow and bale I put it back on the land as 10 10 20, I doubt if it's enough though.
The work only starts when your contractor goes

Might be a bit low alright wasn’t adding in cost of wrap. Contractor charges €10 plus €5 fertilizer and €3 for wrap sound right to others?

Transporting the bales to the yard and loading them onto a guys trailer...apart from the diseal, wear and tear of machinery the bloodly time taken!
Add in the p k s and lime from a heavy crop that was taken out of the ground.

Green farmer

kk.man wrote: »

Add in the p k s and lime from a heavy crop that was taken out of the ground.

That’s the real cost. I make silage each year here through a contractor. But I’m not upset if I run out. not afraid of mealing them for a month or two. I think it’s a better alternative then driving around buying silage or hay off lads ( which I used to do in the past) . Just easier to buy in a pallet or two of meal. I’ve mentioned loads of times I limed the farm 12 months ago. First crop of silage post liming gave me near 60 % increase in amount of bales. Scary really to think how taking a cut of hay or silage a year is so hard on the land and depletes the place so much.

Siamsa Sessions

wrangler wrote: »

In fairness there's some good articles on the IFJ today......but then you probably wouldn't buy one of those

I buy it religiously every Thursday and read it Fri, Sat, Sun morning over breakfast.

Used to believe everything in it but learned the hard way - what’s good and economical for the big fella doesn’t always apply to smaller, part time fellas

FarmerDougal

wrangler wrote: »

What do you reckon it costs to make a bale, I assume you're including a land cost as well

For a 70’sdmd high dm bale its 40€ here. Yes land cost, light crop so mowing is dearer, pk, stacking, reseeding etc etc
Twice the silage dm in them than 20€ lucky bag and of superior quality too

wrangler

FarmerDougal wrote: »

For a 70’sdmd high dm bale its 40€ here. Yes land cost, light crop so mowing is dearer, pk, stacking, reseeding etc etc
Twice the silage dm in them than 20€ lucky bag and of superior quality too

could well believe it,

razor8

FarmerDougal wrote: »

For a 70’sdmd high dm bale its 40€ here. Yes land cost, light crop so mowing is dearer, pk, stacking, reseeding etc etc
Twice the silage dm in them than 20€ lucky bag and of superior quality too

But this year it is an exception. Seen good silage sold at €20 when its plentiful

Siamsa Sessions

Few useful articles on sheep in the Journal this week alright.

Serious sheep shed that lad in Kilkenny put up too. €40k after grant is big money though. He’s producing organic lamb from 200 ewes so must be money in the oul organic thing after all :-)

Anyway, fair play to him

wrangler

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Few useful articles on sheep in the Journal this week alright.

Serious sheep shed that lad in Kilkenny put up too. €40k after grant is big money though. He’s producing organic lamb from 200 ewes so must be money in the oul organic thing after all :-)

Anyway, fair play to him

Very bad demand for organic lamb, if you produce a good product you'll get organic price for all but I've seen some farmer get no organic bonus for any of their lambs.
I'd say that less than 50% of organic lambs gets the bonus, our lamb group facilitates organic farmers so I know that many don't get the bonus. We organise them to go on our lorries, farmers need only to bring them to the midlands rather than go all the way to the south east.......is there any other factories processing them

kk.man

Fair play to him but I would seriously question the economics of spending that much on a sheep shed even with grants.

wrangler

kk.man wrote: »

Fair play to him but I would seriously question the economics of spending that much on a sheep shed even with grants.

The economics is rubbish now in farming, to put that over 5 years is 9000/year, you'd be doing well to make that on 200 ewes.
But is outwintering the way either, these sort of winters come round fairly often now

sheepfarmer92

Thats a very simole looking shed but the cost is serious inreckon you would build a shed for double the ewes for the same price with out the grant, big difference in orice of grant spec shed and ordinary kit shed doing a good bit of work yoursrlf, them 200 ewes will never really pay for that shed

Siamsa Sessions

Started lambing this morning and off to our now traditional bad start.

Two lambed fine but then two others who weren’t due for another week started lambing. One had a dead 6kg lamb and a live 3kg one, no milk but glad one them is alive at least. Going back to check 2nd early ewe now.

Is it possible seeing/smelling other ones lambing induced the other two prematurely?

Siamsa Sessions

sheepfarmer92 wrote: »

Thats a very simole looking shed but the cost is serious inreckon you would build a shed for double the ewes for the same price with out the grant, big difference in orice of grant spec shed and ordinary kit shed doing a good bit of work yoursrlf, them 200 ewes will never really pay for that shed

That was my thinking too. All going well and you make €70/ewe, you’d have €14k per annum profit minus wranglers €5k loan repayment so €9k for yourself from 200 ewes.

kk.man

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

sheepfarmer92 wrote: »

Thats a very simole looking shed but the cost is serious inreckon you would build a shed for double the ewes for the same price with out the grant, big difference in orice of grant spec shed and ordinary kit shed doing a good bit of work yoursrlf, them 200 ewes will never really pay for that shed

That was my thinking too. All going well and you make €70/ewe, you’d have €14k per annum profit minus wranglers €5k loan repayment so €9k for yourself from 200 ewes.

According to Wranger you make 40e per ewe net. I say he is not far off the mark.

Siamsa Sessions

kk.man wrote: »

According to Wranger you make 40e per ewe net. I say he is not far off the mark.

Depends on your fixed costs but I was trying to be optimistic re that €40k shed :-)

You’ve nothing left at all for €40/ewe after paying for the shed

wrangler

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Started lambing this morning and off to our now traditional bad start.

Two lambed fine but then two others who weren’t due for another week started lambing. One had a dead 6kg lamb and a live 3kg one, no milk but glad one them is alive at least. Going back to check 2nd early ewe now.

Is it possible seeing/smelling other ones lambing induced the other two prematurely?

No I wouldn't think so
The sh...y ones always come first, it usually improves as the lambing goes on

charolais0153

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Started lambing this morning and off to our now traditional bad start.

Two lambed fine but then two others who weren’t due for another week started lambing. One had a dead 6kg lamb and a live 3kg one, no milk but glad one them is alive at least. Going back to check 2nd early ewe now.

Is it possible seeing/smelling other ones lambing induced the other two prematurely?

I wish it would....slow,slow start since Tuesday, kinda started lambing right today with 3 though

wrangler

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Depends on your fixed costs but I was trying to be optimistic re that €40k shed :-)

You’ve nothing left at all for €40/ewe after paying for the shed

Probably high fixed costs here alright, guys feeding their own good silage would do better too
but I don't think you'd get 70/ewe.......500 ewes netting €35000, sure everyone would be at it,,

Buford T. Justice XIX

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Depends on your fixed costs but I was trying to be optimistic re that €40k shed :-)

You’ve nothing left at all for €40/ewe after paying for the shed

You would have a shed and an easier work environment. Grand once there is another source of money to live on though.

sheepfarmer92

40 euro per ewe would be as good as it gets, we built a shed for 400 ewes a few years back, did a fair bit ourselves once the shed structure was up, didnt get a grant, was paid for after two years using sfp, if we went for the grant, shed would have probably cost over 100 grand instead of under 40, grand, going extending it this summer again, by far its cheaper for us to in winter our ewes than taking grass for winter grazing, the way this winter came you would want to have sheep very lightly stocked on grass or it would be a mess