Is the estate agent bluffing?

Jesusaves

Hi all,

I am currently bidding on a house, i was the highest bidder but on the last day of business before christmas I got an email from estate agent to say they have an offer of €9000 more, I know they can't be trusted but i don't want to lose the house either, any way of knowing this is legit? I know it could be a phantom bidder, any advice greatly appreciated!

Nomis21

Jesusaves wrote: »

Hi all,

I am currently bidding on a house, i was the highest bidder but on the last day of business before christmas I got an email from estate agent to say they have an offer of €9000 more, I know they can't be trusted but i don't want to lose the house either, any way of knowing this is legit? I know it could be a phantom bidder, any advice greatly appreciated!

I don't,t trust estate agents but I don't, think they would risk losing the sale for their commission on an extra 9,000 euro

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SteM

Nomis21 wrote: »

I don't,t trust estate agents but I don't, think they would risk losing the sale for their commission on an extra 9,000 euro

I agree with this. Property is practically selling itself these days, I don't see them bothering with a phantom bidder for the small amount of commission they'd make on an extra 9k.

Parchment

They might be - they might not be.

Get an friend to call theme enquiring about the property. But if you like the property and feel its worth bidding on - others will feel the same.

For our property (we are sale agreed on) we went in 5k above the other offer so 9k isnt that much of a stretch.

EAs have to log all bids now. If afterward an underbidder sees from the PPR register that the house went for a lower price they can complain and the EA would have to show their regulator that all was above board.
So, yes, I think its likely correct. 9k would be designed to be a knock out blow by the other bidder.

Parchment

Deleted User wrote: »

EAs have to log all bids now. If afterward an underbidder sees from the PPR register that the house went for a lower price they can complain and the EA would have to show their regulator that all was above board.
So, yes, I think its likely correct. 9k would be designed to be a knock out blow by the other bidder.

Thats my thinking too - a knockout bid. Quite effective most of the time!

Lumen

It is not the highest bid that buys the property, it is the highest bid that is acceptable to the vendor.

When I was selling my house my asking price was 350k. Two bidders, one dropped out at 320k ish. The other sat at 340k. I told the EA I would only sell for 350k. The second bidder paid the extra 10k and we closed.

I don't know what the EA told the bidders, but it made no difference how many bidders there were, or what their maximum bid was. I was holding out for 350k because that's what I valued the property at after watching the market for years.

Now as it happens the EA ended up acting as the letting agent for the buyer, and may well have been from the beginning. Maybe he was hiding bids? Total conflict of interest, but do I really care? I got my price.

Point is, work out what you'll pay and be prepared to go reasonably quickly to that price and then drop out if you can't go sale agreed.

If you can't work out what it's worth you're in trouble.

You're also in trouble with this mindset...

Jesusaves wrote: »

i don't want to lose the house either

It's not yours to lose! EAs can smell this from a mile off.

um7y1h83ge06nx

SteM wrote: »

I agree with this. Property is practically selling itself these days

I think that still depends on location, many rural areas are slow to pick up, a lot of houses we were looking at around rural Limerick 1.5 years are just beginning to move now.

But I never trust EAs, the way the system is setup means you can only mistrust them really.

ted1

Parchment wrote: »

Thats my thinking too - a knockout bid. Quite effective most of the time!

Quite effective in ensuring you pay over the odds

Parchment

ted1 wrote: »

Quite effective in ensuring you pay over the odds

I disagree - if you have a figure in your head that you are willing to pay for the house then its not above the odds for you.

Going up in 1k bids often ends up in people paying more than if they decided to just put in an amount they were happy to pay for the house at the start and leave it at that.

uck51js9zml2yt

The more important question OP is what's your budget.
A house is no good if you're struggling to pay the extra back to the bank.

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newacc2015

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EA have to keep a log of their bids. If an EA sells a house below market value, there is a risk of them losing their license and getting fined. They are now regulated and dodgy EA are now losing their licenses.

Triangle

We sold our house a number of months back.

One of the bidders pulled out and then a number of weeks later, called to the house enquiring about the house again. Felt like they thought the EA was phantom bidding or underhanded and wanted to discuss directly - unfortunately it was actually sold to a different person.

Best advice is to stick to what you think it's worth and drop out if it goes higher.

ted1

Parchment wrote: »

I disagree - if you have a figure in your head that you are willing to pay for the house then its not above the odds for you.

Going up in 1k bids often ends up in people paying more than if they decided to just put in an amount they were happy to pay for the house at the start and leave it at that.

If 2 people are bidding and ine has a budget of 300 and the other has 310, by offering 310 you have just over paid by 9,000 as 301 would have got it
Well hae to agre to disagree .

evolving_doors

ted1 wrote: »

If 2 people are bidding and ine has a budget of 300 and the other has 310, by offering 310 you have just over paid by 9,000 as 301 would have got it
Well hae to agre to disagree .

What if other person who pays 310 is also in the bidding for another property they want which is going for 320...in that case they could rationalise it to having made a saving of 10k .
Tis all relative.

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Lumen

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Property Services (Regulation) Act 2011 (pdf)

Retention of records where sale of land other than by auction.

61.—Without prejudice to the generality of regulations made under section 46, where land is offered for sale, other than by auction, by a licensee who is a property services employer or an independent contractor (including, in the case of a property services employer, the provision of such offer by a principal officer or employee of the property services employer) the licensee shall retain a record in the specified form for a period of not less than 6 years, of all offers received by the licensee, including conditional acceptances, in respect of the sale.

G.Gershwin

If the property is in Dublin he's probably not bluffing. I have regularly been outbid by amounts of €10k-€15k the last few months, on properties in the €300k-€400k range. The lesson is not to get emotionally attached to any one single property, doing so opens you up to exploitation and disappointment.

Denny_Crane

Just to we echo what's been said. You've no way of knowing. I came into the bidding very aggressively on my house as I a) got carried away b) really wanted it. I'm sure the EA was told go to and make sweet love to himself by at least one bidder which is exactly what I wanted.

Pick a value and stick to it. See a)

Also hopefully it all works out for you and you'll get it and pay the booking deposit. Congrats you've probably, at best, got a 60% chance of closing. Keep looking!

ted1

Gebgbegb wrote: »

What if other person who pays 310 is also in the bidding for another property they want which is going for 320...in that case they could rationalise it to having made a saving of 10k .
Tis all relative.

That's just nonsense now. By your logic If you were also bidding on a house for 200 you have paid 110 to much

BrokenArrows

Get someone to call the estate agent about the property and say "My max budget for this property would be xxx. Are there currently any offers above this?"

where xxx is 8k above your offer or maybe even 1k above your offer.

If they have a legitimate offer of +9k then they should tell the person there is no point.

ted1

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Get someone to call the estate agent about the property and say "My max budget for this property would be xxx. Are there currently any offers above this?"

where xxx is 8k above your offer or maybe even 1k above your offer.

If they have a legitimate offer of +9k then they should tell the person there is no point.

No they wouldn't say there's no point, because they would try to draw the them I and bid higher

evolving_doors

ted1 wrote: »

That's just nonsense now. By your logic If you were also bidding on a house for 200 you have paid 110 to much

No... that's assuming were using your 300k bracket figures...

Op wants for 300k
Other bidder flies in with 310
You say he should have flown in with 301 to save himself 9k.
I say it depends on what else the other bidder is looking at. So if the other bidder has a bid in on another 320k house he can 'afford' to put in a knockout offer on OP's house for 310, rather than wasting time ping-pong in thousands.
You say the other bidder has paid too much, I say he saves on what he could have potentially paid on another 320k house.
2 people bidding small also ensures they will keep bidding. That'll take longer + the EA realises the small bids will get him a small marginal commission (he might be under pressure to get sales numbers in for the end of year too!). So he advises a large pitch to seal the deal.

machiavellianme

Go back to the EA and demand a conference call with the other party. Suggest that your in a hurry to close as you are considering another property and would prefer to come to a quick resolution rather than to-ing and fro-ing for weeks with slight increments. Then if the phantom exists, you can run off a mini auction and end this episode swiftly. If not...

ted1

Gebgbegb wrote: »

No... that's assuming were using your 300k bracket figures...

Op wants for 300k
Other bidder flies in with 310
You say he should have flown in with 301 to save himself 9k.
I say it depends on what else the other bidder is looking at. So if the other bidder has a bid in on another 320k house he can 'afford' to put in a knockout offer on OP's house for 310, rather than wasting time ping-pong in thousands.
You say the other bidder has paid too much, I say he saves on what he could have potentially paid on another 320k house.
2 people bidding small also ensures they will keep bidding. That'll take longer + the EA realises the small bids will get him a small marginal commission (he might be under pressure to get sales numbers in for the end of year too!). So he advises a large pitch to seal the deal.

Different properties are different prices far a reason. You can't compare paying 320 for one with paying 310 for another

G.Gershwin

machiavellianme wrote: »

Go back to the EA and demand a conference call with the other party. Suggest that your in a hurry to close as you are considering another property and would prefer to come to a quick resolution rather than to-ing and fro-ing for weeks with slight increments. Then if the phantom exists, you can run off a mini auction and end this episode swiftly. If not...

That's not how estate agents work. They are under no obligation to open direct communication between bidders.
What people seem to be forgetting is estate agents act on behalf of the seller only. Their job is to meet the seller's criteria (price of property, timeframe of sale, etc) as closely as possible. Their job is NOT to ensure buyers get the best deal possible in the shortest timeframe, because that would potentially be acting against the seller's interests.
I mean how do you know the other bidder would even want a conference call, if you "demanded" one?

ted1

machiavellianme wrote: »

Go back to the EA and demand a conference call with the other party. Suggest that your in a hurry to close as you are considering another property and would prefer to come to a quick resolution rather than to-ing and fro-ing for weeks with slight increments. Then if the phantom exists, you can run off a mini auction and end this episode swiftly. If not...

That's awful advice and would never happen, have you ever bought a place?

evolving_doors

ted1 wrote: »

Different properties are different prices far a reason. You can't compare paying 320 for one with paying 310 for another

You can if you're bidding on both.

machiavellianme

ted1 wrote: »

That's awful advice and would never happen, have you ever bought a place?

Yes, and my above advice brought it to a swift end. Both of us bid over the asking price and it seemed like incessant 1k bid tennis so I made the suggestion. The other party agreed and we discussed it like adults until one party couldn't match the other. No need for the piggy in the middle (who still got their commission) but it ended in 15 minutes instead of 15 days/weeks.

It may not work for every party but I haven't seen many other options suggested above bar just pay it or state its your final offer and walk away. Where's your novel suggestion apart from just squabbling over fictitious numbers?