Would old car insurer have defintely contacted us if they recieved a claim?

AndrewJRenko

My other half had a fender bender a couple of years back, just within a few days of our policy coming up for renewal. It wasn't huge, but the other car was a Merc, so it would surprise me if the damage was about €1k. We switched insurer anyway, to get a better price, but we've never heard anything more from the driver concerned or the insurance company at that time.

Am I safe in thinking that if the claim had arrived, we would definitely have been informed - or would the fact that we moved insurer have allowed them to deal with it themselves without telling us?

Actually, the real question is - is there any risk for us in switching back to that same old insurer? Could we be hit with a claim that we've otherwise avoided?

Liam McPoyle

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

My other half had a fender bender a couple of years back, just within a few days of our policy coming up for renewal. It wasn't huge, but the other car was a Merc, so it would surprise me if the damage was about €1k. We switched insurer anyway, to get a better price, but we've never heard anything more from the driver concerned or the insurance company at that time.

Am I safe in thinking that if the claim had arrived, we would definitely have been informed - or would the fact that we moved insurer have allowed them to deal with it themselves without telling us?

Actually, the real question is - is there any risk for us in switching back to that same old insurer? Could we be hit with a claim that we've otherwise avoided?

I'm confused.

Did you notify your insurer at the time of the accident about the accident?

Did you notify the new insurer about the accident before you took the policy out?

AndrewJRenko

Rod Munch wrote: »

Did you notify the new insurer about the accident before you took the policy out?

No, we were waiting for the other guy to get in touch with details of the repair required.

Rod Munch wrote: »

Did you notify the new insurer about the accident before you took the policy out?

No, we had take out the policy with the new insurer before the incident took place.

beechwood55

So when the new insurer asked you if you have had any accidents, claims or convictions in the last 3 years (or 5 years depending on insurer) what did you say?
Apologies, I have just re-read and the accident happened after you agreed the new policy but before the old one lapsed?

AndrewJRenko

beechwood55 wrote: »

Apologies, I have just re-read and the accident happened after you agreed the new policy but before the old one lapsed?

Yep, that's exactly it - it was in the last two or three days of the old policy, and we had already arranged the switch to the new insurer at that time.

Liam McPoyle

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No, we were waiting for the other guy to get in touch with details of the repair required.

No, we had take out the policy with the new insurer before the incident took place.

It appears then that you have been EXCEPTIONALLY lucky and that the other person did not log a claim with your insurer.

If you had told the new insurer that you'd had an accident before the new policy came into force they would not have taken you on.

Seeing as you didn't tell them they would be 100% within their rights to cancel your policy for non disclosure.

You are obliged to inform your insurer of anything that happens that may effect the policy, an being the most obvious thing.

I'm actually flabbergasted that some people are so switched off when it comes to insurance.

AndrewJRenko

Rod Munch wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No, we were waiting for the other guy to get in touch with details of the repair required.

No, we had take out the policy with the new insurer before the incident took place.

It appears then that you have been EXCEPTIONALLY lucky and that the other person did not log a claim with your insurer.

If you had told the new insurer that you'd had an accident before the new policy came into force they would not have taken you on.

Seeing as you didn't tell them they would be 100% within their rights to cancel your policy for non disclosure.

You are obliged to inform your insurer of anything that happens that may effect the policy, an being the most obvious thing.

I'm actually flabbergasted that some people are so switched off when it comes to insurance.

Yep, we probably have been lucky. I'm guessing that perhaps yer man just lost the bit of paper with our details, or something like that.  We were resigned to having a claim that would impact the NCB, but it just never landed. We didn't inform the insurers at the time as we thought we might just pay it directly ourselves, depending on the size of the claim - but we never heard anything more.

Just to be clear, I've never lied on any insurance form. The exact wording of questions vary, but they usually ask something like;
- How long is your no-claims-bonus?
- Have you had any claims in the last x years?

or something like that.

Liam McPoyle

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Yep, we probably have been lucky. I'm guessing that perhaps yer man just lost the bit of paper with our details, or something like that.  We were resigned to having a claim that would impact the NCB, but it just never landed. We didn't inform the insurers at the time as we thought we might just pay it directly ourselves, depending on the size of the claim - but we never heard anything more.

Just to be clear, I've never lied on any insurance form. The exact wording of questions vary, but they usually ask something like;
- How long is your no-claims-bonus?
- Have you had any claims in the last x years?

or something like that.

If you had an accident before the new policy incepted, and you did not inform the new company of this accident, then that is non disclosure and the new insurer would be 100% within their rights to cancel the policy because of it.

The general wording is "have you had any accidents, claims or convictions in the last x years". The questions insurers ask are designed to get as much information as is possible to correctly rate the risk.

As I said, it would look that you have been very, very lucky and that nothing came of the incident.

mickoneill31

Rod Munch wrote: »

If you had an accident before the new policy incepted, and you did not inform the new company of this accident, then that is non disclosure and the new insurer would be 100% within their rights to cancel the policy because of it.

If you had an accident that didn't result in a claim why would you have to report that to the new insurer? I don't remember getting asked to report accidents, just claims.

I just had a quick look on a couple of sites. The stuff they ask for is
"Claims free driving experience".
I can't find anything that asks for
"Accident free driving experience".

I'm open to correction obviously. Maybe some insurers are different.

Op. If you ring your old insurer you can ask them for a letter detailing your claims free status. They'll give it to you easy enough. Just have your old policy number handy.
They'll send out a letter stating when your policy started, when it ended and the number of years claims free.
I've needed letters like this when proving my claims free driving with previous companies when switching insurer.

Liam McPoyle

mickoneill31 wrote: »

If you had an accident that didn't result in a claim why would you have to report that to the new insurer? I don't remember getting asked to report accidents, just claims.

I just had a quick look on a couple of sites. The stuff they ask for is
"Claims free driving experience".
I can't find anything that asks for
"Accident free driving experience".

I'm open to correction obviously. Maybe some insurers are different.

Op. If you ring your old insurer you can ask them for a letter detailing your claims free status. They'll give it to you easy enough. Just have your old policy number handy.
They'll send out a letter stating when your policy started, when it ended and the number of years claims free.
I've needed letters like this when proving my claims free driving with previous companies when switching insurer.

How do you know an accident won't result in a claim?

I had a case recently where our driver was involved in a minor prang with a third party.

At the time of the accident there was no talk of involving the insurers and it was all nice and kosher.

About 6 weeks after the incident our claims department received two solicitors letters from the third party driver and passenger claiming for personal injuries.

The attitude from many people is any accident they are in means free money.

Insurance is based on utmost good faith which essentially means that when taking out a contract of insurance, the customer knows everything and the insurer knows nothing so the obligation lies with the proposer to advise the insurer of any and all information that may effect their ability to quote.

Special Circumstances

Rod Munch wrote: »

How do you know an accident won't result in a claim?

I had a case recently where our driver was involved in a minor prang with a third party.

At the time of the accident there was no talk of involving the insurers and it was all nice and kosher.

About 6 weeks after the incident our claims department received two solicitors letters from the third party driver and passenger claiming for personal injuries.

The attitude from many people is any accident they are in means free money.

Insurance is based on utmost good faith which essentially means that when taking out a contract of insurance, the customer knows everything and the insurer knows nothing so the obligation lies with the proposer to advise the insurer of any and all information that may effect their ability to quote.

There's a LOT of people out there with invalid insurance due having tipped a door off a neighbouring car when getting in or out then?

I mean, theoretically any of these little tips could result in a claim?

Where is the line drawn on potential accidental damage claims?

Or any of those speed vans that you may or may not have seen, there could be a fine winging it's way to you right now? Should you declare points or fines pre emptively just in case?


Or should you just deal with documented actual definite pending/live claims/incidents?

Special Circumstances

Rod Munch wrote: »

Insurance is based on utmost good faith which essentially means that when taking out a contract of insurance, the customer knows everything and the insurer knows nothing so the obligation lies with the proposer to advise the insurer of any and all information that may effect their ability to quote.

Is there any expected reciprocation of this utmost good faith?


No is the answer your looking for.

Liam McPoyle

Special Circumstances wrote: »

There's a LOT of people out there with invalid insurance due having tipped a door off a neighbouring car when getting in or out then?

I mean, theoretically any of these little tips could result in a claim?

Where is the line drawn on potential accidental damage claims?

Or any of those speed vans that you may or may not have seen, there could be a fine winging it's way to you right now? Should you declare points or fines pre emptively just in case?


Or should you just deal with documented actual definite pending/live claims/incidents?

Of course.

I'd go so far as saying if you actually walk into someone's car or even worse, hit a car with a football then you need to declare it to your insurer.

Liam McPoyle

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Is there any expected reciprocation of this utmost good faith?


No is the answer your looking for.

Of course not.

How can they make any money if they tell the truth?

Insurance is essentially the same as buying a lottery ticket, you might get lucky if you have to make a claim and your policy might cover you but in reality its about 1000/1 that you will get covered.

Didn't tell them that you broke a window in your parents house?

That's non disclosure.

Didn't tell them that you once burned a toy car with a magnifying glass?

That's non disclosure.

Didn't the them that you once had a dream you were involved in a multiple car pile up?

That's definitely non disclosure.

You see the only way the industry will keep amassing the fortunes they have is by screwing their customers. The central bank and the gubbermint are in on it too. They get sweet annual back handers to turn a blind eye.

Remember the collapse of Setanta?

That €95m hole for their claims, 50% was split between the companies left in Ireland and Setanta took the other 50% back to Malta to open a sweat shop for Syrian orphans. The orphans will be the ones that look after licking the envelopes for the insurance companies documents.

Best thing about it is that people don't have a clue. Its going to keep going through the court system until every single policy holder is dead. Its free money.

The MIBI came up with the idea. They are fairly clued in when it comes to how to defraud the public.

Luckily for us that Irish people are so thick they don't realise what's happening, except you of course. You've really got your finger on the pulse of the insurance market as a whole. There could be a few bucks in it for you if you play your cards right .

Anyway, I've to go back to polishing my yacht.

Big day tomorrow.

We are having a Wolf of Wall Street day in work tomorrow. Its great. Free champagne, free coke, whores aplenty and we use the tear stained letters of our customers to snort the coke.

But shhhhhhh, its a big secret, so keep it to yourself, yeah.

Special Circumstances

Well if you're not going to be civil and helpful then maybe you have some sort of problem with valid questions?

I'm seeing a lot of dancing around the question for the sake of being uncivil and unhelpful. Lets be more specific.



Where is the line drawn on "potential pending claims" when renewing?
Where is the line drawn on "accidental damage" that you could potentially possibly maybe be liable for when renewing?




Penalty points. Pending but not applied.
Notice received in November. Points to take effect in late december. Renewal in early december.

Driver notifies insurance and receives applicable loading on renewal even though they have not taken effect.
3 years later, December again. Points still on licence - will the insurer reciprocate this utmost good faith and accept that the penalty points will be removed shortly after renewal? Or will they drag another year of loading out of it, because who's gonna stop them?




I think you might be overselling the wall street thing a little btw - last I heard gross financial incompetence and mismanagement an undetectable virus that turns all motorists into scammers was p1ssing yer profits down the drain

Liam McPoyle

Im a firm believer of answering stupid questions with stupid answers.

You have consistently added nothing to any discussion in here apart from hyperbolic nonsense so you cannot choose when you want a straight answer.

People can choose to believe me or believe you but I will not be responding to anything you have to say or ask.

You are not worth the bandwidth tbh.

Special Circumstances

Rod Munch wrote: »

Im a firm believer of answering stupid questions with stupid answers.

You have consistently added nothing to any discussion in here apart from hyperbolic nonsense so you cannot choose when you want a straight answer.

People can choose to believe me or believe you but I will not be responding to anything you have to say or ask.

You are not worth the bandwidth tbh.

What's so stupid about the penalty points question? At least in that situation you have documentation to make the "pending" official.

Seems like a perfectly valid place to start working towards the more nebulous "might or might not be a claim" side of things?

Liam McPoyle

I am perfectly willing to have a discussion.

What I am not willing to do is wade through nonsense to try and find something worth responding to.

If you expect straight answers from me then ask straight questions, no bullshyt, no "humour" attempts, straight, simple questions.

Special Circumstances

Rod Munch wrote: »

I am perfectly willing to have a discussion.

What I am not willing to do is wade through nonsense to try and find something worth responding to.

If you expect straight answers from me then ask straight questions, no bullshyt, no "humour" attempts, straight, simple questions.

Until you can point out the nonsense in my specific questions about the penalty points I'm going to have to regard your responses as both uncivil and unhelpful.

The question is open to sue pa key pa too seeing as he is so prolific in his thanks for your uncivil and unhelpful responses to perfectly valid questions.

Liam McPoyle

Fair enough.

Back on ignore you go.

Ta ta.

Special Circumstances

Rod Munch wrote: »

Fair enough.

Back on ignore you go.

Ta ta.

Jeez it shouldn't be THAT hard for ya. You tell me I'm spouting erroneous nonsense with no credibility pretty much every time I post here.

Yet you can't point out the nonsense at all and you get proved wrong time and again despite my "not understanding insurance" as you put it.

Special Circumstances

By the way, the invitation is open to the other insurance industry posters. Some of whom are thanking Rod Munches posts calling my questions nonsense.

Point out the nonsense.
Or
Give a straight answer
Or
Continue to hide behind Rod Munch and say nothing.


Different people may infer different things from your unwillingness or inability to answer even the straightforward penalty points question.

You may think it's a nonsense question, do companies get 3 or 4 years of loading/refusal to quote out of 3 year penalty points. I don't think average Joe trying to insure and average car without being robbed thinks that it's a nonsense question.

Special Circumstances

Special Circumstances wrote: »

By the way, the invitation is open to the other insurance industry posters. Some of whom are thanking Rod Munches posts calling my questions nonsense.

Point out the nonsense.
Or
Give a straight answer
Or
Continue to hide behind Rod Munch and say nothing.


Different people may infer different things from your unwillingness or inability to answer even the straightforward penalty points question.

You may think it's a nonsense question, do companies get 3 or 4 years of loading/refusal to quote out of 3 year penalty points. I don't think average Joe trying to insure and average car without being robbed thinks that it's a nonsense question.

Any update lads?

I'm being told to use more logic and reason in another thread. This penalty point thing looks like a good place to start. Then we logically and reasonably move on to the "where is the line drawn on possible pending claims, what is the definition of an accident or loss etc".

AndrewJRenko

Just to get back to the original issue, I bit the bullet and switched back to the old insurer, as that was the best quote I had this year, by a significant margin. No word of any old claims yet, so I guess the other guy never claimed for whatever reason.