Liverpool vs Man City, 17:30, BT Sports 1

mickmackey1

Milkers wrote: »

That's why AIG can't be taken seriously. I have no doubt he is quite knowledgeable but you can't have a proper discussion with a fanatic. It would be like discussing the afterlife with a well-read televangelist. We really need Richard Dawkins to write a book "The Pep Delusion".

Dawkins is every bit as fanatical as AIG to be fair :pac:

SEPT 23 1989

It's like Jim Hensons workshop in here

corwill

corwill wrote: »

Martí Perarnau's books?

Given A.i.G.'s thanks for the above post, I'm taking that as an answer in the affirmative.

Those books are farcical hagiographies, utterly devoid of the merest morsel of journalistic integrity. Creepily fawning beyond all parody.

And I say that as someone who's fairly positively disposed towards Pep. Although less so having read Perarnau's excrescences. Pep must have a desperately fragile ego to have wanted that sort of North Korean style propaganda in exchange for access.

Rayne Wooney

Pep just isn't a special one.

Andersonisgod

SlickRic wrote: »

So to have an opinion that's in any way valid on Pep, I must first read all the biblical material on him? Seriously?

Is that the same for Mourinho? Klopp? Allardyce? Martin O'Neill? Or any other manager for that matter?

Utter nonsense.

I use my eyes to analyse football. Plus the bits I've read. Plus whatever anecdotes I hear from players like Henry.

You don't the like what I said, so you decide to arrogantly dismiss my points because I haven't read a book you think is vital. You don't automatically know more about the game because you've read certain books. You're actually entrenched in a dogmatic, religious obsession with one way of playing the game that you can't see criticised or questioed without trying to smugly patronise the person giving the opinion.

You kill any constructive debate because you assume you're in the position of superior knowledge, and we should just listen as you preach your gospel. If we disagree, it's because we haven't read certain things. Ridiculous.

2 books. And yes, unless you understand his motivations, his background and why club's like Bayern Munich and Man City clamour to hire him then I do feel like a reasonable debate on level ground is practically impossible.

Do I feel like I'm in a position of knowledge on the topic of Pep? That depends on who I'm debating with. If it's someone from Pep's family, if it's someone who has worked closely with Pep, if it's a journalist with very close and constant access to Pep then no, I would not be in a position of superior knowledge. If it's anybody that falls outside of those categories (which I suspect is all the posters on this Board) then I have no problem taking up the mantle as an expert on this particular topic.

The Talking Bread

Andersonisgod wrote: »

2 books. And yes, unless you understand his motivations, his background and why club's like Bayern Munich and Man City clamour to hire him then I do feel like a reasonable debate on level ground is practically impossible.

Do I feel like I'm in a position of knowledge on the topic of Pep? That depends on who I'm debating with. If it's someone from Pep's family, if it's someone who has worked closely with Pep, if it's a journalist with very close and constant access to Pep then no, I would not be in a position of superior knowledge. If it's anybody that falls outside of those categories (which I suspect is all the posters on this Board) then I have no problem taking up the mantle as an expert on this particular topic.

Nope..........more like

Worship
Irrationally Defend
Are deluded somewhat by

gosplan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

2 books. And yes, unless you understand his motivations, his background and why club's like Bayern Munich and Man City clamour to hire him then I do feel like a reasonable debate on level ground is practically impossible.

Do I feel like I'm in a position of knowledge on the topic of Pep? That depends on who I'm debating with. If it's someone from Pep's family, if it's someone who has worked closely with Pep, if it's a journalist with very close and constant access to Pep then no, I would not be in a position of superior knowledge. If it's anybody that falls outside of those categories (which I suspect is all the posters on this Board) then I have no problem taking up the mantle as an expert on this particular topic.

What if the stuff you've read isn't balanced?

I say this because as an Arsenal fan I'm aware of the cult of Wenger. He does loads right but you have to be aware of his faults too and evaluate him with a critical mind.

Andersonisgod

gosplan wrote: »

What if the stuff you've read isn't balanced?

I say this because as an Arsenal fan I'm aware of the cult of Wenger. He does loads right but you have to be aware of his faults too and evaluate him with a critical mind.

What if the stuff you haven't read contains key information and understanding of what Guardiola hopes to accomplish and how he goes about doing that?

gosplan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

What if the stuff you haven't read contains key information and understanding of what Guardiola hopes to accomplish and how he goes about doing that?

Then I'd be unaware of that.

What he actually accomplishes is slightly more relevant than what he hopes to accomplish.

I've no issue with Guardolia.

It's more your dismissal of any critical point about him as not be educated enough.

The Talking Bread

Andersonisgod wrote: »

What if the stuff you haven't read contains key information and understanding of what Guardiola hopes to accomplish and how he goes about doing that?

Tell us what you don't think people understand. You are hiding behind a book that was written in an entirely exaggerated manner as it tailors to fan boys like you to be told what they want to be told.


Questions:
Where does Pep go with this CURRENT squad
Who does he keep
Who does he realisticall buy
How long has he got to implement this project
Do you honestly see him staying longer than 4 years at the helm and do you think once he leaves this project will remain ingrained in a Premier League club.

Andersonisgod

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Tell us what you don't think people understand. You are hiding behind a book that was written in an entirely exaggerated manner as it tailors to fan boys like you to be told what they want to be told.


Questions:
Where does Pep go with this CURRENT squad
Who does he keep
Who does he realisticall buy
How long has he got to implement this project
Do you honestly see him staying longer than 4 years at the helm and do you think once he leaves this project will remain ingrained in a Premier League club.

While I might be as handsome and charming as Guardiola, alas I am not Pep. What you are asking me to do is predict the future, nobody can do that (I suspect not even Guardiola could answer some of those questions let alone me). Any answers I would give you to those questions would purely be my own guesswork and who really wants to see that?

The Talking Bread

Andersonisgod wrote: »

While I might be as handsome and charming as Guardiola, alas I am not Pep. What you are asking me to do is predict the future, nobody can do that (I suspect not even Guardiola could answer some of those questions let alone me). Any answers I would give you to those questions would purely be my own guesswork and who really wants to see that?

Ah, yes, because this whole Pep/Man City analysis of yours has been predicated on the present............

Andersonisgod

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Ah, yes, because this whole Pep/Man City analysis of yours has been predicated on the present............

I can tell you aims and how he goes about implementing those based on the past. Unfortunately I can't tell you if City will sign Grimaldo or Van Dijk in the next 12 months.

MD1990

Van Dijk is a good player. But City paying 50-60m for another CB with little CL experience would be crazy.
Maybe they could promote some youngsters from there youth teams considering they are very highly rated. Adarabioyo is a highly rated CB. A great coach like Pep should develop a youngster rather than continue to overpay for players like Stones & previously Otamendi & Mangala under Pellegrini.

MD1990

Van Dijk is a good player. But City paying 50-60m for another CB with little CL experience would be crazy.
Maybe they could promote some youngsters from there youth teams considering they are very highly rated. Adarabioyo is a highly rated CB. A great coach like Pep should develop a youngster rather than continue to overpay for players like Stones & previously Otamendi & Mangala under Pellegrini.

NukaCola

Pep isn't doing too badly is he?

He has had much time as Mourinho has, spent similar, performing slightly better. Maybe he gets an easier time because Mourinho had a poor season at Chelsea before the United job and people were doubting Jose, which was a bit silly also.

Managers need time, unless you are Conte that is......

Andersonisgod

MD1990 wrote: »

Van Dijk is a good player. But City paying 50-60m for another CB with little CL experience would be crazy.
Maybe they could promote some youngsters from there youth teams considering they are very highly rated. Adarabioyo is a highly rated CB. A great coach like Pep should develop a youngster rather than continue to overpay for players like Stones & previously Otamendi & Mangala under Pellegrini.

His track record in developing young players can't be questioned, but equally important to remember is how ruthless Guardiola can be with young players if they don't fit the requirements or if he feels they aren't up to standard whether on the pitch or off it. I can't say all that much about City's young players or how talented they are, City fans I'm sure would be far better equipped to do that than I would. In terms of centre back I do feel like one is certainly required in this window given that the club are competing at the top of the league and in the Champions League. Stones will get there eventually, Otamendi is hit or miss, Kompany can't be relied upon and Kolarov is an awful option anywhere on the pitch most of the time. Personally I've been impressed with Van Dijk whenever I've seen him, he's useful on the ball and strong in 1 vs 1's and has a bit of presence about him. 50 million is a lot but I suppose PL to PL deals will always be more expensive now so there are worse options than Van Dijk.

The Talking Bread

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I can tell you aims and how he goes about implementing those based on the past. Unfortunately I can't tell you if City will sign Grimaldo or Van Dijk in the next 12 months.

I am not looking for precise answers but you seem engrossed in your own self appreciation and vast insight of Pep's "state of being" that surely, after calling the present squad a group made up of predominantly "faded talents propped up by past glories" that are either "no longer capable of performing (his gameplan) or were never capable (of same) in the first place." that surely you can use such vast insight to point out the players he is likely to get rid of and suggest a few realistic targets?

It is like your sing when their winning attitude, exemplified in August/early September when they looked impressive against mainly weaker teams, you can't spout your self-superior opinions on the subject and then shy away when a reasonable question is asked.


__________________

SlickRic

Andersonisgod wrote: »

2 books. And yes, unless you understand his motivations, his background and why club's like Bayern Munich and Man City clamour to hire him then I do feel like a reasonable debate on level ground is practically impossible.

Do I feel like I'm in a position of knowledge on the topic of Pep? That depends on who I'm debating with. If it's someone from Pep's family, if it's someone who has worked closely with Pep, if it's a journalist with very close and constant access to Pep then no, I would not be in a position of superior knowledge. If it's anybody that falls outside of those categories (which I suspect is all the posters on this Board) then I have no problem taking up the mantle as an expert on this particular topic.

So you can't validly comment on any coach or player in the whole world unless they've done extensive reading with the manager or player themselves, a person who who has worked closely with them or journalists who've worked closely with them.

Got it.

Absolute fúcking nonsense.

Andersonisgod

SlickRic wrote: »

So you can't validly comment on any coach or player in the whole world unless they've done extensive reading with the manager or player themselves, a person who who has worked closely with them or journalists who've worked closely with them.

Got it.

Absolute fúcking nonsense.

You can comment on them if you like, go wild for all I care. But your comments on any coach should always be made in the context of what the aims of their jobs at their respective clubs are. Something which I feel far too many don't understand when it comes to passing judgement on Guardiola.

Don't remember mentioning players at any stage though....think you might have thrown that in yourself.

The Talking Bread

SlickRic wrote: »

So you can't validly comment on any coach or player in the whole world unless they've done extensive reading with the manager or player themselves, a person who who has worked closely with them or journalists who've worked closely with them.

Got it.

Absolute fúcking nonsense.

Coming Soon to a bookstore (petrol station) near you:

Misunderstood: The man that needed 1 more year

Andersonisgod

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I am not looking for precise answers but you seem engrossed in your own self appreciation and vast insight of Pep's "state of being" that surely, after calling the present squad a group made up of predominantly "faded talents propped up by past glories" that are either "no longer capable of performing (his gameplan) or were never capable (of same) in the first place." that surely you can use such vast insight to point out the players he is likely to get rid of and suggest a few realistic targets?

It is like your sing when their winning attitude, exemplified in August/early September when they looked impressive against mainly weaker teams, you can't spout your self-superior opinions on the subject and then shy away when a reasonable question is asked.


__________________

Firstly, determining yourself as a person asking a "reasonable question" is exactly the type of comment I get blasted for regularly on here. You can't decide if your own questions are reasonable, because funnily enough for what you are asking me to predict I would need to be some kind of Nostradamus figure (I'm not). Not even Guardiola himself could tell you who he will sign given the many intricacies of player transfers, nor could he tell you how long he will be at City. It's the equivalent of saying to a history professor "Oh you know everything about everything that's happened, so when's the world gonna end?"

The Talking Bread

Ok, avoid the question. It is only an unreasonable question to you as it doesn't suit your agenda. You claim vast insight into Pep's mindset and project plans, you call certain unnamed players incapable has beens and then won't answer a question of who do you think he will get rid of. (ie the has beens............because I assume these incapable has beens will not form part of the masterplan so why would he keep them?)

Again, you are using condescending, agenda suiting sentences to avoid questions that may expose your acclaimed wealth of knowledge on this guy.

Andersonisgod

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Ok, avoid the question. It is only an unreasonable question to you as it doesn't suit your agenda. You claim vast insight into Pep's mindset and project plans, you call certain unnamed players incapable has beens and then won't answer a question of who do you think he will get rid of. (ie the has beens............because I assume these incapable has beens will not form part of the masterplan so why would he keep them?)

Again, you are using condescending, agenda suiting sentences to avoid questions that may expose your acclaimed wealth of knowledge on this guy.

Or...based on previous experience I just couldn't be bothered answering your loaded and unreasonable questions and now I'm watching football, so, goodbye.

Brendan Flowers

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Firstly, determining yourself as a person asking a "reasonable question" is exactly the type of comment I get blasted for regularly on here. You can't decide if your own questions are reasonable, because funnily enough for what you are asking me to predict I would need to be some kind of Nostradamus figure (I'm not). Not even Guardiola himself could tell you who he will sign given the many intricacies of player transfers, nor could he tell you how long he will be at City. It's the equivalent of saying to a history professor "Oh you know everything about everything that's happened, so when's the world gonna end?"

So now you're saying you won't (can't) make any predictions on future events even though you posted the following in that nonsensical 'Jose Busted Flush' thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=101109514#post101109514

The Talking Bread

Q.E.D.

The Talking Bread

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Or...based on previous experience I just couldn't be bothered answering your loaded and unreasonable questions and now I'm watching football, so, goodbye.

Q.E.D.

Trigger

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Or...based on previous experience I just couldn't be bothered answering your loaded and unreasonable questions and now I'm watching football, so, goodbye.

Just remember you cannot comment on said football match and the teams playing until you read numerous books on big Sam and Arsene Wenger that I have specifically chosen.

TitianGerm

Andersonisgod wrote: »

While I might be as handsome and charming as Guardiola, alas I am not Pep. What you are asking me to do is predict the future, nobody can do that (I suspect not even Guardiola could answer some of those questions let alone me). Any answers I would give you to those questions would purely be my own guesswork and who really wants to see that?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder AIG.

To be honest you do make some good points but your condescending tone and inability to consider/entain any point other than your own makes discussion with you practically impossible.

Andersonisgod

emmetkenny wrote: »

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder AIG.

To be honest you do make some good points but your condescending tone and inability to consider/entain any point other than your own makes discussion with you practically impossible.

I'm surprised nobody is arguing for Pulis as best dressed coach in the PL.

I do, and I'm always happy to entertain stimulating debate but when you're being asked questions like the ones the Bread guy was asking or when Slick starts cursing at you again you'll have to excuse me if I get a bit snappy and I don't feel like it's a serious debate.

The Talking Bread

What in Gods name is wrong with a question like "Who do you think will not form part of his future plans"?????????????? This question was aimed at a guy who has pointed out unnamed players as not suited to Pep's plans and furthermore is entirely convinced by his own insight into Pep's mindset.

Give it a rest. You are laughable!! I am not asking you to predict the lotto numbers or even predict who exactly will go. I am asking you to give your self convinced qualified opinion as to who these has beens are???

Andersonisgod

The Talking Bread wrote: »

What in Gods name is wrong with a question like "Who do you think will not form part of his future plans"?????????????? This question was aimed at a guy who has pointed out unnamed players as not suited to Pep's plans and furthermore is entirely convinced by his own insight into Pep's mindset.

Give it a rest. You are laughable!! I am not asking you to predict the lotto numbers or even predict who exactly will go. I am asking you to give your self convinced qualified opinion as to who these has beens are???

What were the other questions? Can you justify those? At the risk of sounding condescending, this debate about your line of questioning isn't worth my time. You know why you didn't get an answer from me, move on.

Buford T. Justice XIX

*unfollows*

The Talking Bread

Andersonisgod wrote: »

What were the other questions? Can you justify those? At the risk of sounding condescending, this debate about your line of questioning isn't worth my time. You know why you didn't get an answer from me, move on.

I know well why I didn't get an answer yes.

Some of your defence of Pep is based on quotes like he has a plan, just needs time, doesn't have the players etc etc. If you can't answer questions like how much time should he be afforded and who are these players that need to be got rid of, owing to their unsuitability to his plans, then you really can't be taken serious.

I tried to entertain your spoofing by offering you a chance to elaborate on such issues with pretty general and reasonable openended questions but you used the chance to further talk down to everyone who disagrees with you.

Potential Underachiever

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

*unfollows*

I'm sure you could have just unfollowed, announcing it is just attention seeking and certainly adds nothing to the current debate. I know you won't see this though, so it's cool.....

Potential Underachiever

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

I'm sure you could have just unfollowed, announcing it is just attention seeking and certainly adds nothing to the current debate. I know you won't see this though, so it's cool.....

He should have run it by yourself for permission tbf.

rob316

While im not a gushing admirer of Pep, City's transfer business hasn't been good in years.

Expensive does not mean good.

Huge fees on CB's that don't measure up to half of Kompany. £48m Stones, £28m Otamendi and £42m on Mangala.

The full back options are abysmal, Kolarov and Zabaleta are not good enough.

Gundogan while you cant doubt his talent was a disaster of a signing and no one is surprised he is out for the season.

Just on the game yesterday what is genius about playing 2 CM and 1 of those isn't disciplined enough to play there against 3 CM. Seems incredibly stupid and naive. But hey who am I to criticize Pep ball.

Potential Underachiever

RoboKlopp wrote: »

He should have run it by yourself for permission tbf.

Nah, I just don't expect a mod to be stirring it.

5starpool

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Nah, I just don't expect a mod to be stirring it.

He's not a mod here, you know how it works.

Trigger

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

I'm sure you could have just unfollowed, announcing it is just attention seeking and certainly adds nothing to the current debate. I know you won't see this though, so it's cool.....

Oh man you're a great laugh

OwaynOTT

So, how 'bout dem bears?

Agent Coulson

OwaynOTT wrote: »

So, how 'bout dem bears?

Did you ask permission to ask about those bears or are you just attention seeking?


No go sleep in an ice bath and catch pneumonia for tomorrows game.

OwaynOTT

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Did you ask permission to ask about those bears or are you just attention seeking?


No go sleep in an ice bath and catch pneumonia for tomorrows game.

Or maybe phewmonia, as in we'll all be going, 'phew!, lucky OwaynOTT got that phewmonia as that was a close call in the end.