Liverpool vs Man City, 17:30, BT Sports 1

NukaCola

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

So it seems "professional performance" and "parking the bus" are interchangeable depending on the spin you want to put on it

Liverpool scored before "parking the bus" though didn't they?

Pyjamarama

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

So it seems "professional performance" and "parking the bus" are interchangeable depending on the spin you want to put on it

They're dependent on who you're playing and the circumstances. When winning 1-0 against a title rival and controlling them then yeah... its professional. When you turn up with no intent to even bother trying to score (United at Anfield) then its bus parking. Not to hard to understand.

kfallon

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

So it seems "professional performance" and "parking the bus" are interchangeable depending on the spin you want to put on it

You can put whatever spin you want on it in the Utd thread, I don't give a gee cos I won't have to read it

corwill

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Oh, for sure, yah.

Ordinary man

If klopp had got his teams in the past to park the bus as well as they did tonight, he probably wouldn't have lost all those finals

kfallon

Basically we had our ice cream and a nice walk round before getting back on the bus and parking it!

martyos121

Thought the salt mines would be closed for NYE, apparently not. :pac:

Nalz

Great win for pool! They were my favorites at the start of the season but I can't see beyond Chelsea and theres no telling what Arsenal and United might do. Probably pool will end up 2nd.

kfallon

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Klopp, a coach with names that aren't as big as rival teams but all with a common purpose, pulling together, punching above their weight.

Guardiola, a coach with big names of the past, too many of whom are faded talents propped up by past glories, a group haphazardly thrown together trying to be moulded into a framework that too many do not look capable of executing. Pepball is great, but Pepball cannot be played successfully against top opposition when so many of its practioners are either no longer capable of performing it or were never capable in the first place.

So why is he asking these players to play it if he knows they can't? Surely any great manager knows his players limitations and gets a style going to get their maximum potential?

niallo27

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

So it seems "professional performance" and "parking the bus" are interchangeable depending on the spin you want to put on it

Yes indeed. When your challenging for the title it makes sense. When a team is challenging for 6th or 8th it doesn't.

Park the bus.

Pass me the lemons.


Excellent start to the festivities

The Talking Bread

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Klopp, a coach with names that aren't as big as rival teams but all with a common purpose, pulling together, punching above their weight.

Guardiola, a coach with big names of the past, too many of whom are faded talents propped up by past glories, a group haphazardly thrown together trying to be moulded into a framework that too many do not look capable of executing. Pepball is great, but Pepball cannot be played successfully against top opposition when so many of its practioners are either no longer capable of performing it or were never capable in the first place.

F off with your Pep Ball!! Most annoying phrase in football!!

What is the point being a manager of a club if you can't manage the players you have! If he can't play his tiki taka, then get a new strategy. Like every other decent manager has to.
To say this squad incapable practitioners haphazardly thrown together is going extremely overboard.

The truth is, Pep can do NO wrong in your eyes and you twist every scenario to defend him.

He is getting paid a ridiculous amount of money to manage what he has and I honestly believe that someone like Klopp, Mourinho, even Wenger would be managing that crop of players better at this moment in time.

Sorry for the rant!

Oh and fk off with your Pep Ball!!

Osmosis Jones

Ordinary man wrote: »

If klopp had got his teams in the past to park the bus as well as they did tonight, he probably wouldn't have lost all those finals

Classic.

Ulysses Gaze

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

So it seems "professional performance" and "parking the bus" are interchangeable depending on the spin you want to put on it

Liverpool tried to score before parking the Bus.

The bould Jose parks the bus from the off with very little intent to try and score.

Turtyturd

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Classic.

'Im not crying, there's just something in my eye.'

blueser

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Linda_Pizzuti/status/815277498493702144

We need better pictures!

ThunbergsAreGo

With better decision making Liverpool could have has three +

Agent Coulson

The sheikh needs to give Pep a couple of hundred million to buy the best players in the world so he can show he is the best coach in the world England I think.

BeepBeep67

Nervy 2nd half, 1st time watching city for a full 90 in a while and while no one really played well KDB seems really off the boil.

BMMachine

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Liverpool clearly over achieving this season and their league positions signifies this. I'd expect CITY'S squad to show its depth.

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Its does however highlight the weakness of your squad. When origi is what you have to bring on. It's a miracle Klopp has ye in this position with that squad

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Some of the best bus parking I've seen all season

Andersonisgod

kfallon wrote: »

So why is he asking these players to play it if he knows they can't? Surely any great manager knows his players limitations and gets a style going to get their maximum potential?

Firstly because he's laying the groundwork at the moment for what's to come. How ridiculous would it be if he played full Catenaccio this season and then the next season is like "ok now we play possession football" developing players and building a club culture doesn't work like that at any level of the game, from under 9's to the top of the Champions League.

Also City were dreadful last season, so you can meander on with that or start the process of what is to come in future. However I'd say some of these players wont be part of that process.

MD1990

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Firstly because he's laying the groundwork at the moment for what's to come. How ridiculous would it be if he played full Catenaccio this season and then the next season is like "ok now we play possession football" developing players and building a club culture doesn't work like that at any level of the game, from under 9's to the top of the Champions League.

Also City were dreadful last season, so you can meander on with that or start the process of what is to come in future. However I'd say some of these players wont be part of that process.

160m spent on players though.
Very surprised Pep would want Stones & pay 50m for him. Not sure why he bought no ful backs either.

Pyjamarama

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Firstly because he's laying the groundwork at the moment for what's to come. How ridiculous would it be if he played full Catenaccio this season and then the next season is like "ok now we play possession football" developing players and building a club culture doesn't work like that at any level of the game, from under 9's to the top of the Champions League.

Also City were dreadful last season, so you can meander on with that or start the process of what is to come in future. However I'd say some of these players wont be part of that process.

Exactly. It was the same last season for Klopp. People wanted him to play 442, switch up his style but he's developing the style. Its about medium/long term gain not just winning an individual match.

The Talking Bread

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Firstly because he's laying the groundwork at the moment for what's to come. How ridiculous would it be if he played full Catenaccio this season and then the next season is like "ok now we play possession football" developing players and building a club culture doesn't work like that at any level of the game, from under 9's to the top of the Champions League.

Also City were dreadful last season, so you can meander on with that or start the process of what is to come in future. However I'd say some of these players wont be part of that process.

Why lay the groundwork with a squad you don't think are capable to achieve the ultimate goal and will be disposed of anyway? Why not use the resources he has to the best of their capacity at the moment and then restructure the squad next Summer so as to play his playstation football?!

Andersonisgod

The Talking Bread wrote: »

F off with your Pep Ball!! Most annoying phrase in football!!

What is the point being a manager of a club if you can't manage the players you have! If he can't play his tiki taka, then get a new strategy. Like every other decent manager has to.
To say this squad incapable practitioners haphazardly thrown together is going extremely overboard.

The truth is, Pep can do NO wrong in your eyes and you twist every scenario to defend him.

He is getting paid a ridiculous amount of money to manage what he has and I honestly believe that someone like Klopp, Mourinho, even Wenger would be managing that crop of players better at this moment in time.

Sorry for the rant!

Oh and fk off with your Pep Ball!!

Needless to say you won't garner a decent response from me with messages like that. I'll just say that those saying "why not play a different way" really don't get why City brought Pep in, in the first place. Also you said Mourinho who is currently coaching a team behind City in the league despite both sides finishing level on points last season and City having to deal with the rather serious matter of the Champions League while also navigating a league campaign. Poor example.

Andersonisgod

MD1990 wrote: »

160m spent on players though.
Very surprised Pep would want Stones & pay 50m for him. Not sure why he bought no ful backs either.

How many of those players were on the pitch tonight though? Some people use that figure as a whip to beat Pep but no matter who City hired last Summer they were always going to spend massive amounts on a squad that was clearly in decline and requires a major overhaul. Yes he needs full backs, 4 of them. And a centre back. And a centre mid. And more wingers.

The Talking Bread

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Exactly. It was the same last season for Klopp. People wanted him to play 442, switch up his style but he's developing the style. Its about medium/long term gain not just winning an individual match.

But Klopps players are able to adapt to said style and did so relatively quickly. Man City squad at present will never be able to play the sort of football Pep is obsessed with.

Iused2likebusts

I think klopps greatest achievement is turning James milner into possibly the best left back in the league.

Nice to see Pep not getting his own way with Pep Ball.

Andersonisgod

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Why lay the groundwork with a squad you don't think are capable to achieve the ultimate goal and will be disposed of anyway? Why not use the resources he has to the best of their capacity at the moment and then restructure the squad next Summer so as to play his playstation football?!

So waste an entire season teaching players the complete opposite way of how you eventually want them to play? Then act shocked next season when the players take time to learn the way you actually want them to play.....that's the plan?

MD1990

Andersonisgod wrote: »

How many of those players were on the pitch tonight though? Some people use that figure as a whip to beat Pep but no matter who City hired last Summer they were always going to spend massive amounts on a squad that was clearly in decline and requires a major overhaul. Yes he needs full backs, 4 of them. And a centre back. And a centre mid. And more wingers.

2. But none of Guardiola's signings so far bar Gundogan have made much of an impact although Sane looks promising. From what he achieved at his previous clubs I thought he would have improved players already at the club.
City do have an aging squad.

Need a huge overhaul next summer & Pep will need to make better signings which I think he will. But he should have spent better in the summer.

The Talking Bread

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Needless to say you won't garner a decent response from me with messages like that. I'll just say that those saying "why not play a different way" really don't get why City brought Pep in, in the first place. Also you said Mourinho who is currently coaching a team behind City in the league despite both sides finishing level on points last season and City having to deal with the rather serious matter of the Champions League while also navigating a league campaign. Poor example.

It is not a poor example. I firmly believe Mourinho would be getting a lot more out of that City squad than Pep at the moment. Because he wouldn't obsess about implementing tactics even you agree the squad has no long term ability to adapt to.
I get what he wants to do but football shouldn't work like that. Out of the current squad who does he get rid of and who does he keep and who does he buy and how long does he have to carry out his self egotistical driven project.

SlickRic

Christ.

If your style can only win things if you've the best players in the league, or even the world, then maybe the style isn't the main reason you won things.

kfallon

How long do you think Pep is gonna stay at City?

Pyjamarama

The Talking Bread wrote: »

But Klopps players are able to adapt to said style and did so relatively quickly. Man City squad at present will never be able to play the sort of football Pep is obsessed with.

But some of them will. The likes of KDB, Sterling, Sane, Ihenacho and Stones will all be important players for him imo. Get them up to speed with what you want and supplement them over the course of a window or two.

Pyjamarama

SlickRic wrote: »

Christ.

If your style can only win things if you've the best players in the league, or even the world, then maybe the style isn't the main reason you won things.

City are an aging squad and very unbalanced. Pep has had one window and they're on an iffy run right now. He'll come good i'm sure.

The Talking Bread

Andersonisgod wrote: »

So waste an entire season teaching players the complete opposite way of how you eventually want them to play? Then act shocked next season when the players take time to learn the way you actually want them to play.....that's the plan?

But you don't think most of them "incapable practitioners" are able to ever adapt to this strategy so why waste time teaching them and then get rid of them at the end of the season??

Andersonisgod

MD1990 wrote: »

2. But none of Guardiola's signings so far bar Gundogan have made much of an impact although Sane looks promising. From what he achieved at his previous clubs I thought he would have improved players already at the club.
City do have an aging squad.

I think he's done good work with Sterling and Fernandinho while De Bruyne and Silva have also benefited in different ways working under him. How perfect a fit this current squad is I have my doubts and I think the age thing is a factor in that. I mean it was fairly obvious half way through last season that this squad needs an overhaul, that feeling persists.

Heisenberg1

Pyjamarama wrote: »

They're dependent on who you're playing and the circumstances. When winning 1-0 against a title rival and controlling them then yeah... its professional. When you turn up with no intent to even bother trying to score (United at Anfield) then its bus parking. Not to hard to understand.

Love it !

BMMachine

Was a sloppy as hell game from both teams. So many loose balls and so many bad decisions. Liverpool I thought would definitely concede in the 2nd half, especially when Henderson came off, but City made poor choices in attack and Sterling and Aguero in particular didn't seem effective. I thought Sterling was going to have a good game from what I could see early on but I think the chaotic nature of the game went against him and he wasn't able to make sense of what to do, also Milner did a good enough job on him. There was a constant sense of a disjointed pace between the teams though, the movement just didn't seem right by either - especially Liverpool, and especially without Henderson - City too though just seemed to gather and cluster around the ball and had very few clean cut chances. Not a pretty game, probably no fun for a neutral and Klopps prediction of "I would definitely buy a ticket for this match" seemed like utter nonsense by the end of it.

Man of the match for me was Klavan - he kept the coolest head and seemed to be the most organised out of Liverpools defense and made Aguero look average in his movement and positioning. City seem too disjointed atm for a serious title push but there is enough money in that squad and a good manager where they will still come in the top 4. For all the Man Utd fans posting here, realistically - this is a good result as catching City and Arsenal certainly seems to be the agenda so any points gained on them - like today - is only a good thing. If Liverpool keep it up (and don't slump!) then the battle for 3rd and 4th will be fascinating with City, Spurs, Arsenal and Utd all looking for those spots. Each of those clubs has their work cut out for them. This is where calm heads will prevail.

Andersonisgod

The Talking Bread wrote: »

But you don't think most of them "incapable practitioners" are able to ever adapt to this strategy so why waste time teaching them and then get rid of them at the end of the season??

Because there's a group of young players in the squad, not to mention the youth teams ect. who would get none of the benefit of Guardiola's particular expertise by playing in the complete opposite way for a season. Also it's not even like that way is guaranteed to bring more success than what they are doing currently.

kfallon

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I mean it was fairly obvious half way through last season that this squad needs an overhaul, that feeling persists.

It was more obvious that the squad pretty much downed tools (and the manager too) once they knew there was change on the way!

MightyMandarin

Andersonisgod wrote: »

So waste an entire season teaching players the complete opposite way of how you eventually want them to play? Then act shocked next season when the players take time to learn the way you actually want them to play.....that's the plan?

The problem is his 'Pepball' as you call it, is flawed completely.

He tried it at Bayern and they still couldn't make it work after 3 years, and don't bs me with the domestic trophies he won. BVB, the only meaningful opposition in Germany, were in periods of decline and transition during his tenure; he'd be ****ed if he stayed on this year.

Assuming he doesn't radically overhaul his philosophy he'll be out the door at the end of next season without a PL or CL won or even come close to winning.

Pep has been proven to be a poor manager who is stubborn in his ideas and leaves his players out to dry. He is in stark contrast to Klopp who may be stubborn in sub-making and mid-game decisions, is versatile, balanced and always takes the pressure off his players.

The Talking Bread

Pyjamarama wrote: »

But some of them will. The likes of KDB, Sterling, Sane, Ihenacho and Stones will all be important players for him imo. Get them up to speed with what you want and supplement them over the course of a window or two.

You reckon Sterling will be able to adapt to Peps obsessed way of football........ Sane? even Ihenacho?

The excuse that the city squad is decline is a load of bull**** tbh

I read on here at the start of the season that the squad looked the strongest in the league

Pep simple not getting the best out of his squad and his unrelenting obsession with forcing one tactical option with his teams is clear to see

No Messi in this squad to cover up the issues this time around

It's his most testing time as a manager

Agent Coulson

Aren't these the same City player that won ten straight games at the start of the season and we were being shown a genius coach at work.


What happened to those players are they all suddenly to old and aren't worth coaching now and nothing to do with the coach.

Pyjamarama

MightyMandarin wrote: »

The problem is his 'Pepball' as you call it, is flawed completely.

He tried it at Bayern and they still couldn't make it work after 3 years, and don't bs me with the domestic trophies he won. BVB, the only meaningful opposition in Germany, were in periods of decline and transition during his tenure; he'd be ****ed if he stayed on this year.

Assuming he doesn't radically overhaul his philosophy he'll be out the door at the end of next season without a PL or CL won or even come close to winning.

Pep has been proven to be a poor manager who is stubborn in his ideas and leaves his players out to dry. He is in stark contrast to Klopp who may be stubborn in sub-making and mid-game decisions, is versatile, balanced and always takes the pressure off his players.

Are you actually serious... thats literally the worst thing posted on boards all year and i'm a Liverpool fan not a City one.

Pyjamarama

The Talking Bread wrote: »

You reckon Sterling will be able to adapt to Peps obsessed way of football........ Sane? even Ihenacho?

Douglas Costa certainly did.

Richard Hillman

150 odd years of football and some guy from Spain thinks he has finally solved the puzzle. The arrogance and unwillingness to admit that times have changed is outstanding. His tactics are outdated.

PhlegmyMoses

I think Pep will get it right eventually with City, but this idea that his tactics are too advanced for the team he is managing is ridiculous. If you are being paid to be a manager, you have to be able to get performances out of people, no argument. Not that he should be able to do it right away and that it doesn't take time to click, but this idea that he doesn't have 7 or 8 players in the squad that can buy into his ideas and implement them is farcical. City have some of the best players in the world in their respective positions in that squad.

He has made some costly errors in getting Bravo in and Stones looks like he still needs time to mature. And these are two people who were absolutely bought with implementing his philosophy as the primary reason.