Noise complaint

Ghekko

Ignore him unless he involves solicitors first. You will only end up paying a fortune in solicitors costs if you choose to deal with it that way. Why should you be out of pocket. Again if he wishes to fund whatever assessments he needs to prove there is a genuine problem, then let him off. Seems he is all talk for now.

davindub

sugarman wrote: »

Just to add, I used to be in a band in my teens around 15 years ago.

Every Saturday we'd practice in the garage of an old semi detached house for 2/3hrs.

While it was noisey, with a full drum kit and 2 amps we kept it to a minimum and practiced during reasonable hours.

The neighbors used to call in multiple times in those 2/3hrs complaining and began to call the guards.

They wouldnt even entertain them, saying it was a civil matter as theres nothing they can do by law once its at a reasonable hour.

Due to their persistence a squad car called out one saturday and more or less rebuffed what theyd always said over the phone. We asked them what reasonable hours where, and just said 9/10am onwards with a cut off of 7/8pm. But again there was no law and its a civil matter with the neighbor.

Out of curiosity he asked us to play while he went inside and he said he could see why they'd complain but again, given we only done once a week for 2/3hrs during reasonable hours theres nothing more they can do.

The neighbor continued to give us hassle every week, and eventually my friends mother got tired and rang the guards and he was issued with a warning for harassment.

Basically, there are no noise laws in Ireland. The only thing it falls under is disturbance of the peace, and even then it has to be loud and outside of reasonable hours. Your neighbor hasnt a leg to stand on.

Dangerous assumption, there is legislation on noise in the EPA act, but it is not criminal law. But absolutely nothing to stop them taking a civil case. Some activities, even when carried out at home might require planning permission.

The issue is, everyone involved in these cases often look petty and unreasonable and they are public record so your neighbour probably had all this in mind.

JamesM

punisher5112 wrote: »

Sometimes the mind boggles with what certain people seem to believe.

I just couldn't live like that and would much prefer a bit more space between properties.

Its only going to get worse as most new properties are being piled right on top of each other.

I don't know what world you live in, but 10/12ft in 2017 is a very reasonable space between properties.
Jim

Sleeper12

JamesM wrote:

I don't know what world you live in, but 10/12ft in 2017 is a very reasonable space between properties. Jim

You'd build a nice size car port or garage in that space.

I've listened to Op describe his property and I'd put money he lives in bungalows around the corner from me. Built same year and everything. Not telling where that is.

punisher5112

JamesM wrote: »

I don't know what world you live in, but 10/12ft in 2017 is a very reasonable space between properties.
Jim

I mean new properties so imagine how mad this neighbour is with such a gap.

Sleeper12

punisher5112 wrote:

I mean new properties so imagine how mad this neighbour is with such a gap.

I thought you thought it was a small gap. I get you now

punisher5112

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I thought you thought it was a small gap. I get you now

My bad I had meant to add more and didn't think then thought I had to be honest.

Cuddlesworth

Cionn wrote: »

Thanks for the comments, just to be clear we both live in 1950's detached bungalows. The noise from my perspective is not sufficient to warrant a complaint.

However there is no talking to this person and relations have now broken down. That is not a problem on my side, what I am looking for is the legal residential noise limits so that I can ask him to provide me with evidence that I am breeching them. and in the absence of that evidence he can bugger off.

If your outside, is it noticeable? If its not, then the best thing you can do is tell him where to shove it. If he tries to take you to court, he is just wasting his money.

Graces7

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

If your outside, is it noticeable? If its not, then the best thing you can do is tell him where to shove it. If he tries to take you to court, he is just wasting his money.

I was told that it only costs around E25 to take someone to court re a noise nuisance as long as you do not involve a solicitor of course .

B.A._Baracus

Hey op,
Only my two cents and normally I am not one to instantly suggest it... But yeah. You would be best off talking to a solicitor about this one.

Sounds like it is the beginning of something you see on 'neighbours from hell'

imp1

30dB(A) is often quoted as a maximum bedroom noise to avoid sleep disturbance. It comes from World Health Organisation guidance so is well founded.
If the boiler is producing 40 dB (at what distance?) then it is entirely feasible that the neighbour is experiencing 30 dB(A) in the bedroom - he is entitled to sleep with his bedroom window open.
If the boiler is new it should have a sound power level marked on it, this is a scientifically measured level, not off a smart phone / app etc - does the OP know if it has this.
Noise is often used as a cheap way to get into court, but any judge is likely to require sound level measurements from the complainant - though not always.

Cuddlesworth

imp1 wrote: »

30dB(A) is often quoted as a maximum bedroom noise to avoid sleep disturbance. It comes from World Health Organisation guidance so is well founded.
If the boiler is producing 40 dB (at what distance?) then it is entirely feasible that the neighbour is experiencing 30 dB(A) in the bedroom - he is entitled to sleep with his bedroom window open.
If the boiler is new it should have a sound power level marked on it, this is a scientifically measured level, not off a smart phone / app etc - does the OP know if it has this.
Noise is often used as a cheap way to get into court, but any judge is likely to require sound level measurements from the complainant - though not always.

30db is the point where you can hear whine from electrical capacitors.

You don't have any right to dictate noise levels of houses around you, outside of what would be considered unreasonable. And you are going to have a incredibly tough time trying to tell a judge that a heating systems usage is unreasonable. Its the reason people in the docklands have to listen to trains idling all night.

Its a civil case if the neighbour takes it up, its not applicable for the small claims court. I'm of the understanding that we don't have a lot of nuisance courts cases here because the winner can claim and recover costs as part of the case and they are in nearly all cases granted in full. So the neighbour will be wasting his money fast paying two lawyers, the OP's time and court fees.

Graces7

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

30db is the point where you can hear whine from electrical capacitors.

You don't have any right to dictate noise levels of houses around you, outside of what would be considered unreasonable. And you are going to have a incredibly tough time trying to tell a judge that a heating systems usage is unreasonable. Its the reason people in the docklands have to listen to trains idling all night.

Its a civil case if the neighbour takes it up, its not applicable for the small claims court. I'm of the understanding that we don't have a lot of nuisance courts cases here because the winner can claim and recover costs as part of the case and they are in nearly all cases granted in full. So the neighbour will be wasting his money fast paying two lawyers, the OP's time and court fees.

The council told me there was no need for a solicitor in noise nuisance court case. Court fees were E25 ..

Cuddlesworth

Graces7 wrote: »

The council told me there was no need for a solicitor in noise nuisance court case. Court fees were E25 ..

Of all the sources to believe, the council is the last of them. It takes at least 6 of them to pick a nose. They were referring to the small claims court, which is not applicable.

L1011

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]


The council told me there was no need for a solicitor in noise nuisance court case. Court fees were E25 ..

You can't prevent the other side having a solicitor. Noise cases wouldn't be under 6he remit of small claims - cost is a lot more than 25 otherwise.

Graces7

See


http://www.flac.ie/download/pdf/neighbour_disputes.pdf

E22

Iwent to the Ombusman after the way the council acted

Cuddlesworth

Cool document, wasn't aware it was 22Euros to kick off a case. Of course the OP can engage his own paid engineer, solicitor and any other experts he wants, turn up and apply for costs for all of them and his time. And since its a boiler, in a housing estate that is not faulty or overtly loud, he has already won.

imp1

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

30db is the point where you can hear whine from electrical capacitors.

You don't have any right to dictate noise levels of houses around you, outside of what would be considered unreasonable. And you are going to have a incredibly tough time trying to tell a judge that a heating systems usage is unreasonable. Its the reason people in the docklands have to listen to trains idling all night.

Its a civil case if the neighbour takes it up, its not applicable for the small claims court. I'm of the understanding that we don't have a lot of nuisance courts cases here because the winner can claim and recover costs as part of the case and they are in nearly all cases granted in full. So the neighbour will be wasting his money fast paying two lawyers, the OP's time and court fees.

A cap whining at 30 dB(A) at 10m, would be a very noisy capacitor though with no indication of what distance the listener is from the capacitor, the 30 dB mentioned is fairly meaningless. I don't mean to, and haven't dictated the levels in houses around me, the OP was looking for guidance in permissible or allowable levels, in the absence of any statutory limits I pointed out the levels normally used in determining whether nuisance is likely to occur - the 30 dB(A) from the WHO which is very widely used.

Section 108 of the EPA is the normal route to court for these issues,
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1992/act/7/section/108/enacted/en/html
where the requirement is for the complainant to persuade the judge that:
the noise which is so loud, so continuous, so repeated, of such duration or pitch or occurring at such times as to give reasonable cause for annoyance to a person in any premises in the neighbourhood

So if the complainant appears in court with a diary detailing the number of times he tried to reason with the neighbour (OP), and was told to go forth and multiply, he also has a letter from the GP stating the stress he has been under, his wife/husband/children confirm all of the above then it may be fairly easy to persuade the judge that all of the worlds ills are due to the OPs boiler discharge exhaust - all without recourse to an acoustic consultant.
The OP may find it worthwhile starting a diary themselves.

Findings in cases brought under sec 108 are normally
the Court may order the person or body making, causing or responsible for the noise to take the measures necessary to reduce the noise to a specified level or to take specified measures for the prevention or limitation of the noise and the person or body concerned shall comply with such order.

Costs are not normally awarded except in vexatious cases. If costs were to be awarded no individual, or community group etc. would ever raise a case against any organisation for fear of the 'other side' lining up a host of expert witnesses at enormous costs to scare off the neighbour.

There are quite a few noise nuisance cases in Ireland, as well as planning and licensing issues, though court is never the best place to sort out neighbour disputes.

virgo69

Have you got access to your neighbours house to see just how bad the noise is, as I said in my original post my neighbour couldn't hear it in her apartment but she could in mine, he may be genuine
.

Graces7

imp1 wrote: »

A cap whining at 30 dB(A) at 10m, would be a very noisy capacitor though with no indication of what distance the listener is from the capacitor, the 30 dB mentioned is fairly meaningless. I don't mean to, and haven't dictated the levels in houses around me, the OP was looking for guidance in permissible or allowable levels, in the absence of any statutory limits I pointed out the levels normally used in determining whether nuisance is likely to occur - the 30 dB(A) from the WHO which is very widely used.

Section 108 of the EPA is the normal route to court for these issues,
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1992/act/7/section/108/enacted/en/html
where the requirement is for the complainant to persuade the judge that:
the noise which is so loud, so continuous, so repeated, of such duration or pitch or occurring at such times as to give reasonable cause for annoyance to a person in any premises in the neighbourhood

So if the complainant appears in court with a diary detailing the number of times he tried to reason with the neighbour (OP), and was told to go forth and multiply, he also has a letter from the GP stating the stress he has been under, his wife/husband/children confirm all of the above then it may be fairly easy to persuade the judge that all of the worlds ills are due to the OPs boiler discharge exhaust - all without recourse to an acoustic consultant.
The OP may find it worthwhile starting a diary themselves.

Findings in cases brought under sec 108 are normally
the Court may order the person or body making, causing or responsible for the noise to take the measures necessary to reduce the noise to a specified level or to take specified measures for the prevention or limitation of the noise and the person or body concerned shall comply with such order.

Costs are not normally awarded except in vexatious cases. If costs were to be awarded no individual, or community group etc. would ever raise a case against any organisation for fear of the 'other side' lining up a host of expert witnesses at enormous costs to scare off the neighbour.

There are quite a few noise nuisance cases in Ireland, as well as planning and licensing issues, though court is never the best place to sort out neighbour disputes.

While this is true, speaking as someone who tried very hard to make a legitimate noise nuisance complaint it is not that easy.

You would have to be very very determined and have all the facts and measurements right and be skilled at that kind of paperwork.

I tried very very hard with the crowbanger issue and the man after i wrote asking him please to desist, actually started using it 24/7 and even nearer the house here.

The OP is not like that. He has done all he can and I feel the neighbour will probably nto take it any further. Maybe just making noise? Sorry, no pun intended!

A solicitor's letter sorted my problem out as it mentioned taking him to court,

OP has the neighbour said anything like that?

He would need cast iron proof. Which would initially cost him.