Catalan independence referendum, 2017

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bertie 56 wrote: »

"Pobrecito" , you mean, no ?

1 - https://spanishpolice.github.io/
Happy viewing !

2 - Google " ¿Por qué Cataluña quiere su independencia? "
Happy reading !

We can start criticising your English if you prefer, there is alot to criticise?

You still haven't answered the question. If you are so oppressed, what rights would you gain as part of an independent Catalonia that you don't already have as being Spainish and a member of the European Union?

bertie 56

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

The Spanish constitution is younger that Ireland, Germany, France and Italy. Should all these countries rewrite their constitution on the basis that most of the people are dead?

In Ireland when we want to change the constitution, take the upcoming abortion referendum as an example, a bill passes through Parliament and then a vote is put to the citizens to decide Yes or No. In the case of Catalonia, they couldn't even pass the bill in their own Parliament but decided to have one anyway and then declare the results legally binding.

I agree with you on this one. The constitution has to be modified some times to times to stick with the new reality of the country.
That is something that should be done with the Spanish one as well, to stick with the aspirations of the majority of Catalans which is , as shown to you before, the independence.

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bertie 56 wrote: »

What is blocking is the Spanish Constitution.
The only way to obtain something under the Spanish rules is through the modification of this Constitution . This is done in the Spanish parliament. And I talk about just having a referendum, not about the independence yet !

The equivalent in marriage law would be :

" A married woman needs the permission of her husband and of the extended family of the husband to divorce ."

Just a thought : the PP which is the key political party in Spain to makes things evolve is just representing 8.5 % of the population of Catalonia.
But whatever you do, when it's no, it's no ...:rolleyes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z0RVrKkg8k

So what? The same principal applies in this country. A United Ireland can only be achieved by changing the constitution through a legal democratic referendum.

What happened in Catalonia would be like Sinn Fein proposing a bill for a United Ireland in the Irish Parliament and when they don't get the required majority they call a referendum anyway, declare the results legally binding and declare a United Ireland.

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bertie 56 wrote: »

I agree with you on this one. The constitution has to be modified some times to times to stick with the new reality of the country.

Yes and the way to change the Constitution is by a legal referendum not by conducting an online twitter poll as they did in Catalonia.

bertie 56 wrote: »

That is something that should be done with the Spanish one as well, to stick with the aspirations of the majority of Catalans which is , as shown to you before, the independence.

You can keep repeating the same lie as much as you want but it doesn't become a reality. The fact is that Catalonia is Spanish, they have always been Spanish, they will always be Spanish, the official language of Catalonia is Spanish and the Ebro river does not rise in a foreign land despite what they indoctrinate you with in the Catalan schools.

Most of the people living in Catalonia are originally from Puerto Hurraco, how could they be anything other than Spanish???

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bertie 56 wrote: »

I'll try to explain you in an easy way :

The election I gave the results was the regional elections, with all parties represented.
There was no call of boycott, it was the same type of elections we have around to elect representatives. So, like everywhere, the ones that stayed in bed that day are the ones that don't care of politics.

The referendum one was different. The "unionnist" parties has called for a boycott of the referendum. That was done to prevent any legitimacy in the vote.
This time, the ones that stayed in bed that day are the ones that don't care of politics + the ones that were boycotting the vote on purpose.

You don't seem to understand the hypocrisy in your posts, how did you determine what people stayed in bed and what people boycotted, was there an official census?

No matter what way you cut the numbers. The independence movement have never achieved a legal majority to give them independence?

bertie 56

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

So what? The same principal applies in this country. A United Ireland can only be achieved by changing the constitution through a legal democratic referendum.

What happened in Catalonia would be like Sinn Fein proposing a bill for a United Ireland in the Irish Parliament and when they don't get the required majority they call a referendum anyway, declare the results legally binding and declare a United Ireland.

You are mixing everything , my friend.
Read about the legal requirements to change the Spanish Constitution.
http://www.congreso.es/consti/constitucion/indice/titulos/articulos.jsp?ini=166&fin=169&tipo=2

bertie 56

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

You don't seem to understand the hypocrisy in your posts, how did you determine what people stayed in bed and what people boycotted, was there an official census?

No matter what way you cut the numbers. The independence movement have never achieved a legal majority to give them independence?

With all the respect I have for you , I think you are so blind that you should start reading in braille ...:rolleyes:

bertie 56

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

Most of the people living in Catalonia are originally from Puerto Hurraco, how could they be anything other than Spanish???

I think you've reached the top there . I won't post you a link with the history of Catalonia, it is useless at this point...

Let me share you a quote. It's from Artur Mas,President of Catalunya who reacted at the results of the Scottish referendum in 2014 :
"What happened in Scotland is not a setback for us, because what we really want in Catalonia is to have the chance to vote"

All is said there....:)

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bertie 56 wrote: »

I think you've reached the top there . I won't post you a link with the history of Catalonia, it is useless at this point...

Let me share you a quote. It's from Artur Mas,President of Catalunya who reacted at the results of the Scottish referendum in 2014 :
"What happened in Scotland is not a setback for us, because what we really want in Catalonia is to have the chance to vote"

All is said there....:)

Artur Mas, why is he not the President of Catalonia today, probably worrying about the 3% being discovered when Andorra lifts in banking secrecy laws in January?

What Rajoy and everyone outside of Catalonia told you is that all citizens of Spain have the right to vote but they don't have the right to call illegal elections and then try and rig the results by taking custody of the ballot boxes, sleeping overnight in the polling stations and then making a declaration of independence stating 90% of the people voted in favour. The Russians or Mugabe wouldn't have the balls to do this.

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bertie 56 wrote: »

You are mixing everything , my friend.
Read about the legal requirements to change the Spanish Constitution.
http://www.congreso.es/consti/constitucion/indice/titulos/articulos.jsp?ini=166&fin=169&tipo=2

I don't need to read about it, I already know that 90% of the Catalan people voted in favour of it.

To change that constitution, all of the citizens of Spain are given an opportunity to decide but before it even gets to that stage, a bill needs to be passed in the Catalan Parliament allowing for a referendum in Catalonia. You can't even get over the very first hurdle of passing a bill in the Catalan Parliament which is why the referendum was illegal in the first place.

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bertie 56 wrote: »

With all the respect I have for you , I think you are so blind that you should start reading in braille ...:rolleyes:

Madrid should take control over the education system in Catalonian ASAP. Not only are the teaching that the ebro river rises in a foreign land but they don't seem to teach basic mathematics.

At best, the independence movement has a 50% representation in Catalonia. But throughout this whole process, have you considered the implications of the other half of Catalonia who want to remain part of Spain. Do they get a decision in any of your plans?

Also, lets pretend that Catalonia was an independent country. If the unionist half of the population became the majority again in the next 5 years, based on your criteria should they be allowed to reunite with Spain?

bertie 56

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

Artur Mas, why is he not the President of Catalonia today, probably worrying about the 3% being discovered when Andorra lifts in banking secrecy laws in January?

What Rajoy and everyone outside of Catalonia told you is that all citizens of Spain have the right to vote but they don't have the right to call illegal elections and then try and rig the results by taking custody of the ballot boxes, sleeping overnight in the polling stations and then making a declaration of independence stating 90% of the people voted in favour. The Russians or Mugabe wouldn't have the balls to do this.

Yes, I should have precise that Mas was the president at the time of this declaration.
So far, he hasn't be much implicated in the last Catalonia developments. Please note that he has been condemned and fined by Spain at the beginning of this year, for having organizing a referendum in Catalonia . Talking about Mugabe !...
I don't know if he was corrupted ,and if he was, at which extent. But if it is proved that he was corrupted, yes, I'm in favor of a clear condemn for that . The same way that Pujol was. But then again, a big clean up has to be made in Spain too. As a reminder, 900 political heads of the Partido Popular are under investigation . 75 cases of corruption just for this political party .

When Rajoy says that you have a right to vote, did he says for what ?
In the last years, Catalonia has tried 18 times , yes eighteen times to unblock the situation through the Spanish law. It is impossible just with the votes to unblock the situation. Unless maybe to have a majority of Catalonia intependantists in the Spanish Parliament. Is this the kind of democracy Rajoy is talking about ? Talking about Mugabe once again !...

About the turnout and results of the referendum : It's Rajoy's fault and only his fault if you have these results. Catalonia did asked for a fair and proper referendum and got denied of this right. The result was a boycott from the " unionists " ( their fault ) and rubber bullets for the ones who wanted to vote...
What was the problem to organize a referendum like in Scotland ? Spain was sure to loose , that's it...

bertie 56

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

I don't need to read about it, I already know that 90% of the Catalan people voted in favour of it.

To change that constitution, all of the citizens of Spain are given an opportunity to decide but before it even gets to that stage, a bill needs to be passed in the Catalan Parliament allowing for a referendum in Catalonia. You can't even get over the very first hurdle of passing a bill in the Catalan Parliament which is why the referendum was illegal in the first place.

If you don't read what I post, what is the point of talking ?
It's not about who approved the Constitution, it 's about what is the legal frame to change it !
I think you are confusing a lot of things there. Maybe you are transposing the Irish laws into the Spanish ones, thinking they are the same...
Once again, you are wrong when you say " To change that constitution, all of the citizens of Spain are given an opportunity to decide but before it even gets to that stage, a bill needs to be passed in the Catalan Parliament allowing for a referendum in Catalonia " . I don't know where you got this idea, but please send a link of where you read that . I'll read it closely. Thanks.

bertie 56

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

Madrid should take control over the education system in Catalonian ASAP. Not only are the teaching that the ebro river rises in a foreign land but they don't seem to teach basic mathematics.

Spain has taking over Catalonia now, with the 155 article. They have imported civil servants from Spain, impose at the head of the Generalitat one ( not elected ) woman from Spain, have already modified Catalan names into Spanish ones , moved art work out of Catalonia,stop payment to civil servants, controlled the mobile phones and emails from Catalan civil servants, prohibited Catalan TV to refer to the Catalan Government in exile as "Catalan Government in exile." and threatened to shut down this TV , arrested people for few tweets, went after strikers and humorists, etc...
They surely could do better , and tackle at the education system too ( It should be easy to enter in some places, the Police has already destroyed the schools doors ! )
But it is not finish, Spain has threatened to maintain the 155 in case the independantists keep the majority in the next coming elections .
As said Rajoy " we are back to democracy now "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp2N6sbD2xQ

bertie 56

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

At best, the independence movement has a 50% representation in Catalonia. But throughout this whole process, have you considered the implications of the other half of Catalonia who want to remain part of Spain. Do they get a decision in any of your plans?

Also, lets pretend that Catalonia was an independent country. If the unionist half of the population became the majority again in the next 5 years, based on your criteria should they be allowed to reunite with Spain?

I'm in favor of a clean and recognized referendum of all Catalan people , independantists or unionists, or federalists, etc... , on what they want for their future. It is not more, not less , what the representatives of Catalonia are asking to Spain for years ...

Whatever the result, it has to be respected.
The same system as Scotland, basically.
Yes, I'm sorry for the Scottish Independantists , but they didn't have the majority.

And yes, why not a referendum every ??? years ? Gibraltar for ex has done it , and it's good like this. Things move with time, the laws have to follow the move, IMO.

But a clean referendum is key. The Partido Popular in Spain is a specialist in dirty tricks ... So , yes to a referendum , but without :

- political prisoners
- banned political parties ( as they are trying now with the 3 indep. ones, or like it has happened in Basque Country )
- threats to the population ( article 155 in case indep. won )
- plots against other candidates ( local elections in Barcelona 2015, for ex )
- corruption

bertie 56

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

You can keep repeating the same lie as much as you want but it doesn't become a reality. The fact is that Catalonia is Spanish, they have always been Spanish, they will always be Spanish, the official language of Catalonia is Spanish

To finish with this one , here is one of the polls results , from people living in Catalonia : ( it's one example, the first one I found,TBH, but they are all more or less the same. Check by yourself )

With what sentence do you feel more identified with?
(N=1,500; simple response; %)

I am a Catalan who lives in Catalonia 49.7 %
I am a Catalan who lives in Spain 15.2 %
I am a Spaniard who lives in Catalonia 18.6 %
I am a Spaniard who lives in Spain 5.3 %
None of the above 10.5 %
Does not know 0.6 %
Does not answer 0.2 %

I don't have time to explain you that 5.3 % is not a majority, though. Another day...;)

http://ceo.gencat.cat/ceop/AppJava/pages/

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bertie 56 wrote: »

Yes, I should have precise that Mas was the president at the time of this declaration.
So far, he hasn't be much implicated in the last Catalonia developments. Please note that he has been condemned and fined by Spain at the beginning of this year, for having organizing a referendum in Catalonia . Talking about Mugabe !...
I don't know if he was corrupted ,and if he was, at which extent. But if it is proved that he was corrupted, yes, I'm in favor of a clear condemn for that . The same way that Pujol was. But then again, a big clean up has to be made in Spain too. As a reminder, 900 political heads of the Partido Popular are under investigation . 75 cases of corruption just for this political party .

When Rajoy says that you have a right to vote, did he says for what ?
In the last years, Catalonia has tried 18 times , yes eighteen times to unblock the situation through the Spanish law. It is impossible just with the votes to unblock the situation. Unless maybe to have a majority of Catalonia intependantists in the Spanish Parliament. Is this the kind of democracy Rajoy is talking about ? Talking about Mugabe once again !...

About the turnout and results of the referendum : It's Rajoy's fault and only his fault if you have these results. Catalonia did asked for a fair and proper referendum and got denied of this right. The result was a boycott from the " unionists " ( their fault ) and rubber bullets for the ones who wanted to vote...
What was the problem to organize a referendum like in Scotland ? Spain was sure to loose , that's it...

There was no boycott, the referendum was illegal. Why would anyone participate in an election which they knew was illegal, to do so would only give it credibility.

Imagine I decided to hold an election to appoint myself President of Ireland. Since I'm the only person who voted that means 100% of the people elected me President and because you boycotted the election it's your own fault that you lost.

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bertie 56 wrote: »

If you don't read what I post, what is the point of talking ?
It's not about who approved the Constitution, it 's about what is the legal frame to change it !
I think you are confusing a lot of things there. Maybe you are transposing the Irish laws into the Spanish ones, thinking they are the same...
Once again, you are wrong when you say " To change that constitution, all of the citizens of Spain are given an opportunity to decide but before it even gets to that stage, a bill needs to be passed in the Catalan Parliament allowing for a referendum in Catalonia " . I don't know where you got this idea, but please send a link of where you read that . I'll read it closely. Thanks.

You can read it yourself, we've been over this numerous time on this thread.

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bertie 56 wrote: »

Spain has taking over Catalonia now, with the 155 article. They have imported civil servants from Spain, impose at the head of the Generalitat one ( not elected ) woman from Spain, have already modified Catalan names into Spanish ones , moved art work out of Catalonia,stop payment to civil servants, controlled the mobile phones and emails from Catalan civil servants, prohibited Catalan TV to refer to the Catalan Government in exile as "Catalan Government in exile." and threatened to shut down this TV , arrested people for few tweets, went after strikers and humorists, etc...
They surely could do better , and tackle at the education system too ( It should be easy to enter in some places, the Police has already destroyed the schools doors ! )
But it is not finish, Spain has threatened to maintain the 155 in case the independantists keep the majority in the next coming elections .
As said Rajoy " we are back to democracy now "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp2N6sbD2xQ

You are just making emotional statement rather than posting facts. The school doors were broken, that's too bad but it doesn't change the facts or make your points any more valid.

bertie 56 wrote: »

Spain has taking over Catalonia now, with the 155 article. They have imported civil servants from Spain, impose at the head of the Generalitat one ( not elected ) woman from Spain..

lol. Puidgemont wasn't elected either

bertie 56 wrote: »

have already modified Catalan names into Spanish ones

What about the Catalan government issuing fines to local businesses having Spanish only names, or refusing to educate children in Spanish?

Do you see the double standard? Playing the victim hasn't worked for Catalonia in this crisis.

bertie 56

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

There was no boycott, the referendum was illegal. Why would anyone participate in an election which they knew was illegal, to do so would only give it credibility.

Imagine I decided to hold an election to appoint myself President of Ireland. Since I'm the only person who voted that means 100% of the people elected me President and because you boycotted the election it's your own fault that you lost.

Your example is completely different !
Unlike your example, everybody in Catalonia was invited to vote .
The fact that the referendum was considered legal or not doesn't make any difference.It was clearly a boycott !
I think you don't have clearly in mind the definition of " boycott "

From Wikipedia :

Election boycott :

An election boycott is the boycotting of an election by a group of voters, each of whom abstains from voting.
Boycotting may be used as a form of political protest where voters feel that electoral fraud is likely, or that the electoral system is biased against its candidates, that the polity organizing the election lacks legitimacy, or that the candidates running are very unpopular. In jurisdictions with compulsory voting, a boycott may amount to an act of civil disobedience; alternatively, supporters of the boycott may be able to cast blank votes or vote for "none of the above". Boycotting voters may belong to a particular regional or ethnic group. A particular political party or candidate may refuse to run in the election and urges its supporters to boycott the vote.
In the case of a referendum, a boycott may be used as a voting tactic by opponents of the proposition. If the referendum requires a minimum turnout to be valid, the boycott may prevent this quorum being reached.
In general elections, individuals and parties will often boycott in order to protest the ruling party's policies with the hope that when voters do not show up the elections will be deemed illegitimate by outside observers.[1] This tactic, however, can prove disastrous for the boycotting parties. Lack of participation rarely nullifies election results and the distorted voting is likely to further detach boycotting groups from the organs of power, leaving them susceptible to political irrelevance.[1]


And further down :
" Catalan independence referendum, 2017
Opposition parties called on their voters to boycott the vote, except Catalunya Sí que es Pot who supported participation


And I write again what I wrote before : a boycott has happened a second time , once again from the " unionists " parties , in the Parliament when voting for the independence.

bertie 56

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

1)You are just making emotional statement rather than posting facts. The school doors were broken, that's too bad but it doesn't change the facts or make your points any more valid.


2)lol. Puidgemont wasn't elected either



3)What about the Catalan government issuing fines to local businesses having Spanish only names, or refusing to educate children in Spanish?

Do you see the double standard? Playing the victim hasn't worked for Catalonia in this crisis.

1 ) For me, they are facts. And easy to check . You might call them otherwise if you want, no bother....

2) You are worrying me , honestly. Puigdemont was elected , my friend . The 10th of January 2016 .;)

3) The same way you can sue Ireland for not having their documents translated in Irish.
Would you find this abnormal ?
I'm not aware of any problems with "business names" only , but it is true that all public information that publish a business should be as well in Catalan ( which is official language, at the same level as Spanish ) . That is the law, and I'm surprise that , loving The Law as you do, you find it abnormal to be fined !
Saying that, if the majority of Catalonia people there find this law unfair, they should have possibility to change it, if they don't .

About the schools : I'm not here to defend the Catalan Government. My opinion on this is that since Spanish is official, yes, kids should have access to Spanish in the school .Bilingualism is a good thing to have at early age anyway .

bertie 56

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

You can read it yourself, we've been over this numerous time on this thread.

Oh, I've read it ! And saw that you are mixing up the Change of Statute in Catalonia with the Constitutional Reform in Spain...
:eek:

Tell me, are you confident in reading in Spanish ? Catalan ?

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bertie 56 wrote: »

To finish with this one , here is one of the polls results , from people living in Catalonia : ( it's one example, the first one I found,TBH, but they are all more or less the same. Check by yourself )

With what sentence do you feel more identified with?
(N=1,500; simple response; %)

I am a Catalan who lives in Catalonia 49.7 %
I am a Catalan who lives in Spain 15.2 %
I am a Spaniard who lives in Catalonia 18.6 %
I am a Spaniard who lives in Spain 5.3 %
None of the above 10.5 %
Does not know 0.6 %
Does not answer 0.2 %

I don't have time to explain you that 5.3 % is not a majority, though. Another day...;)

http://ceo.gencat.cat/ceop/AppJava/pages/

lol is 49.7% a majority?

Where does it say in that poll that Catalonia should be independent and break away from Spain?

That poll is meaningless and was carried out by a well know group of perroflautas. You're too busy concerning yourself about peoples feelings and whether they fell 2% Catalan or if the feel 4% Spanish. Concentrate on the actual facts rather than feelings and stop playing the victim, it hasn't worked in Catalonia and it hasn't worked on this thread.

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bertie 56 wrote: »

Your example is completely different !
Unlike your example, everybody in Catalonia was invited to vote .
The fact that the referendum was considered legal or not doesn't make any difference.It was clearly a boycott !
I think you don't have clearly in mind the definition of " boycott "

From Wikipedia :

Election boycott :

An election boycott is the boycotting of an election by a group of voters, each of whom abstains from voting.
Boycotting may be used as a form of political protest where voters feel that electoral fraud is likely, or that the electoral system is biased against its candidates, that the polity organizing the election lacks legitimacy, or that the candidates running are very unpopular. In jurisdictions with compulsory voting, a boycott may amount to an act of civil disobedience; alternatively, supporters of the boycott may be able to cast blank votes or vote for "none of the above". Boycotting voters may belong to a particular regional or ethnic group. A particular political party or candidate may refuse to run in the election and urges its supporters to boycott the vote.
In the case of a referendum, a boycott may be used as a voting tactic by opponents of the proposition. If the referendum requires a minimum turnout to be valid, the boycott may prevent this quorum being reached.
In general elections, individuals and parties will often boycott in order to protest the ruling party's policies with the hope that when voters do not show up the elections will be deemed illegitimate by outside observers.[1] This tactic, however, can prove disastrous for the boycotting parties. Lack of participation rarely nullifies election results and the distorted voting is likely to further detach boycotting groups from the organs of power, leaving them susceptible to political irrelevance.[1]


And further down :
" Catalan independence referendum, 2017
Opposition parties called on their voters to boycott the vote, except Catalunya Sí que es Pot who supported participation


And I write again what I wrote before : a boycott has happened a second time , once again from the " unionists " parties , in the Parliament when voting for the independence.

I think you misunderstand the context in where a boycott is used. Generally, a boycott is against the status quo. If I told you I was having an election in my local bar and you didn't show up, does that mean you are boycotting my election?

Also, you don't need to explain what it means, the word Boycott was invented by the Irish.

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bertie 56 wrote: »

2) You are worrying me , honestly. Puigdemont was elected , my friend . The 10th of January 2016 .;)

But when was he elected President?

bertie 56

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

lol is 49.7% a majority?

Where does it say in that poll that Catalonia should be independent and break away from Spain?

That poll is meaningless and was carried out by a well know group of perroflautas. You're too busy concerning yourself about peoples feelings and whether they fell 2% Catalan or if the feel 4% Spanish. Concentrate on the actual facts rather than feelings and stop playing the victim, it hasn't worked in Catalonia and it hasn't worked on this thread.

Are you trolling ? Did you read back your post I was reacting at ?
Did you read the question of the poll ?
I think you should go down your horses and read the posts more carefully.

It is to show that your position ( " Catalonia is Spanish, they have always been Spanish, they will always be Spanish, the official language of Catalonia is Spanish" ) is a weak minority in Catalonia.
Your position represents around 5 % of the people in Catalonia ( with a margin of error, of course, it's a poll ...) . Still, that's weak... :rolleyes:

bertie 56

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

I think you misunderstand the context in where a boycott is used. Generally, a boycott is against the status quo. If I told you I was having an election in my local bar and you didn't show up, does that mean you are boycotting my election?

Also, you don't need to explain what it means, the word Boycott was invented by the Irish.

Well, if you can't understand this and have to twist everything in order to be the one who is right, fair enough....

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bertie 56 wrote: »

Deleted post

What was the vote that took place on that day to elect him president?

bertie 56

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

What was the vote that took place on that day to elect him president?

http://web.gencat.cat/es/actualitat/detall/20160112_noupresident-00002

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bertie 56 wrote: »

http://web.gencat.cat/es/actualitat/detall/20160112_noupresident-00002

So it was a Parliamentary election as opposed to a presidential election as you suggested? This victim mentality that the independent movement has adopted is not working because your arguments don't stand up to scrutiny.

You suggest that Carles Puigdemont is the elected President of Catalonia as if all the people of Catalonia had voted for him and that Soraya Sáenz is a dictator that has been imposed on the people of Catalonia, but when you're pressed on the facts you know and I know that Carles Puigdemont took over from Artur Mas the same way in this country Leo Varadkar took over from Enda Kenny when he resigned. Soraya Sáenz has taken over from Carles Puidgdmont because his attempted coup failed, a new regional Government will be elected on 21st December and a new President of Catalonia will be appointed. You cannot pick and choose the parts of the Spanish Constitution which allows Puigdemont to be President but cry foul when those rules allow Soraya Sáenz to be president.

This is the whole issue with the independence movement, they want to pick and choose the rules to suit their side of the argument and when the results don't go their way they scream oppression.