Catalan independence referendum, 2017

v638sg7k1a92bx · 03-12-2017 2:53am

bertie 56 wrote: »

Wrong.

The referendum wasn't declared unconstitutional for this reason . Check it.

Wrong again ! .

You'll need to read more than the line of Wikipedia that talks about it , to get the whole picture about the legal process . ( once again :rolleyes :

I don't need to "check it" it's well documented. Catalonian Statutes of Autonomy, your own Parliamentary rules. We've been over this multiple times on the thread. Until you have 2/3 majority the conversation doesn't go any further.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 03-12-2017 3:06am

bertie 56 wrote: »

It doesn't come from me, but from the Parliament of Catalonia who decided this at a majority of votes the 10th of January 2016.
Not my idea, sorry....

Sorry but it comes from the constitution and the Spanish people who voted on 26 June 2016 which allows central government to enact article 155 and appoint Sanez as president of Catalonia with a majority of the votes for PP.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 03-12-2017 3:12am

bertie 56 wrote: »

You do insult the intelligence of the people outside Spain, and that is not nice .
People are well able ( in general !!! ) to get information, and varying the sources to get an accurate vision of the problem.
I'm surprise how pro-independence are ,in the vast majority , people that have a bit of interest in the subject. To add to this, there is far less " fachas " than in the peninsula .
Talking back about Catalans, around 70 % of those living abroad have independentist affinity, for example.
The fact that they often read in another language than the main formated Spanish stream helps a lot too.

This is just more rambling.

bertie 56 · 03-12-2017 2:57pm

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

Scotland is a country, Catalonia is not.

Ah ! Mmmmm... I'll be happy to hear more arguments from you showing me this.

bertie 56 · 03-12-2017 3:09pm

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

The Scottish vote was sanctioned by U.K. Parliament

Yes. The UK parliament is clever enough to hear the claims of his people. And advanced enough to propose evolution . That is called true democracy.
Scots are lucky !
In some other countries , you get baton blows and rubber bullets if you dare asking for something fair ...

bertie 56 · 03-12-2017 3:22pm

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

I don't need to "check it" it's well documented. Catalonian Statutes of Autonomy, your own Parliamentary rules. We've been over this multiple times on the thread. Until you have 2/3 majority the conversation doesn't go any further.

It is so well documented that , so far, you haven't been able to provide me any link of any sort that could prove that.

Tell me, are you confident in reading in Spanish ? in Catalan ?

Or you just read " Wiki " in English and " El Pais in English " ?

There is nothing wrong in not knowing these languages, but if English is enough for talking in a thread about " which disco is best for hot chicks in Torremolinos ", it's a bit short for arguing in a thread about the legal requirements needed to settle a legal referendum in Catalonia !!!

Tell me then , are you confident in reading in Spanish ? in Catalan ?

bertie 56 · 03-12-2017 3:34pm

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

For example, how did you come up with the magic number of 40% as being an acceptable percentage to be president of Catalonia?

bertie 56 wrote: »

It doesn't come from me, but from the Parliament of Catalonia who decided this at a majority of votes the 10th of January 2016.
Not my idea, sorry....

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

Sorry but it comes from the constitution and the Spanish people who voted on 28 June 2016 which allows central government to enact article 155 and appoint Sanez as president of Catalonia with a majority of the votes for PP.

You are worrying me, my friend... Seriously now ....
You are mixing everything once again....
According to you, the election of Puigdemont comes from the national Spanish vote of the General elections in Spain in June but then it's Soraya Sáenz de Santamaria who won with a majority of votes ....
Ah ! Mmmmm !!

PS : by the way, there were no elections the 28 th of June 2016 in Spain. Just saying...

bertie 56 · 03-12-2017 3:36pm

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

This is just more rambling.

Typical answer when short of valid argument ... :rolleyes:

v638sg7k1a92bx · 03-12-2017 3:51pm

bertie 56 wrote: »

You are worrying me, my friend... Seriously now ....
You are mixing everything once again....
According to you, the election of Puigdemont comes from the national Spanish vote of the General elections in Spain in June but then it's Soraya Sáenz de Santamaria who won with a majority of votes ....
Ah ! Mmmmm !!

PS : by the way, there were no elections the 28 th of June 2016 in Spain. Just saying...

What I'm saying is that the only reason the Catalan Parliament exists is because the Spanish people allows it exist as per the constitution. So when the entire country votes on the 26th June they are also voting to give the central government the authority to manage the autonomous regions and enact article 155 and appoint Sanez, or whoever the central government decides, as President of that region should they need to enact 155.

bertie 56 · 03-12-2017 3:55pm

‘Concert for the Freedom of Political Prisoners’ sells over 50k

Nice movement of solidarity from the Catalans towards their political prisoners in the Barcelona Olympic Stadium last night .

All sales goes to the Solidarity Fund, to help paying bail, fines and legal fees.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 03-12-2017 3:56pm

bertie 56 wrote: »

Yes. The UK parliament is clever enough to hear the claims of his people. And advanced enough to propose evolution . That is called true democracy.
Scots are lucky !
In some other countries , you get baton blows and rubber bullets if you dare asking for something fair ...

Interesting who you invoke democracy but also think that the referendum on the 1st October was democratic.

As for the picture, just more victimhood. You are not a victim and there is no oppression in Catalonia.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 03-12-2017 3:57pm

bertie 56 wrote: »

‘Concert for the Freedom of Political Prisoners’ sells over 50k

Nice movement of solidarity from the Catalans towards their political prisoners in the Barcelona Olympic Stadium last night .

All sales goes to the Solidarity Fund, to help paying bail, fines and legal fees.

Don't tell me the 3% has run out already or is there not enough in the Andorran bank accounts? :cool:

bertie 56 · 03-12-2017 3:58pm

El Español Poll: Pro-independence block to secure an absolute majority with 68 to 72 MPs.
Poll coming from a Spanish newspaper .

v638sg7k1a92bx · 03-12-2017 3:58pm

bertie 56 wrote: »

Ah ! Mmmmm... I'll be happy to hear more arguments from you showing me this.

So Scotland is not a country? I'm sure they'd be please to hear that

bertie 56 · 03-12-2017 4:16pm

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

What I'm saying is that the only reason the Catalan Parliament exists is because the Spanish people allows it exist

They should be thankful, then, no ?

That is a worrying position in the heart of modern Europe. I don't know if you realize ...:rolleyes:

It is typically the type of colonizer speech that Catalan people are sick of ... Big time...

No surprise they want to get their own freedom !!!
( you could add your speech to " what will win Catalonia at being independent )

bertie 56 · 03-12-2017 4:19pm

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

Interesting who you invoke democracy but also think that the referendum on the 1st October was democratic.

What is your point of view about a referendum ?
Would you agree on a fair and clean referendum organize for the citizens of Catalonia ?

bertie 56 · 03-12-2017 4:25pm

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

Don't tell me the 3% has run out already or is there not enough in the Andorran bank accounts? :cool:

I'll be you, I wouldn't go towards this slippery road !
The PP you defend is the political party the more corrupted in Europe !!! ...

" When the monkey wants to climb the coconut tree , he must be sure before to have a clean arse "

:D:D

bertie 56 · 03-12-2017 4:31pm

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

There is no oppression in Catalonia.

" You are only as blind as you want to be... "

Once the Catalonia recent history will be in books , your dogma will fall into the category " revisionism ".

bertie 56 · 03-12-2017 4:37pm

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

So Scotland is not a country? I'm sure they'd be please to hear that

Good twist, but not convincing enough to elude the question .

As usual, no argument, then ??? :rolleyes:

v638sg7k1a92bx · 03-12-2017 5:39pm

bertie 56 wrote: »

What is your point of view about a referendum ?
Would you agree on a fair and clean referendum organize for the citizens of Catalonia ?

Of course I would agree but what I don't agree to is a one sided referendum where the independence movement occupies the polling stations, rigs the election and then makes UDI based in the results of a phoney election.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 03-12-2017 5:56pm

bertie 56 wrote: »

Good twist, but not convincing enough to elude the question .

As usual, no argument, then ??? :rolleyes:

Where is the twist, Scotland is a country and Catalonia is not?

v638sg7k1a92bx · 03-12-2017 5:58pm

bertie 56 wrote: »

" You are only as blind as you want to be... "

Once the Catalonia recent history will be in books , your dogma will fall into the category " revisionism ".

...and tomorrow you will still be delusional.

bertie 56 · 03-12-2017 7:29pm

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

Where is the twist, Scotland is a country and Catalonia is not?

Still no argument explaining your position....

bertie 56 · 03-12-2017 7:33pm

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

...and tomorrow you will still be delusional.

If the majority is delusional, that is not too bad !
Although I wouldn't be really happy to be on the majority side all the time , there is always the risk of become conventional ! Jejejeje....

bertie 56 · 03-12-2017 7:34pm

bertie 56 wrote: »

What is your point of view about a referendum ?
Would you agree on a fair and clean referendum organize for the citizens of Catalonia ?

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

Of course I would agree

Ok. And if Spain says " no " ?

v638sg7k1a92bx · 03-12-2017 7:46pm

bertie 56 wrote: »

Ok. And if Spain says " no " ?

If Spain says no then it's adiós amigo. The same principle applies to a United Ireland, the whole country gets to decide. That was engrained in the constitution that 90% of the Catalan people voted for.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 03-12-2017 7:47pm

bertie 56 wrote: »

Still no argument explaining your position....

There is no argument to explain. It's a statement of fact that Scotland is a country and Catalonia is not.

bertie 56 · 03-12-2017 8:00pm

Celia Late Troop wrote: »

If Spain says no then it's adiós amigo. The same principle applies to a United Ireland, the whole country gets to decide. That was engrained in the constitution that 90% of the Catalan people voted for.

Ok. So I suppose you agreed that there is no point for the pro-choice people to ask to repeal the 8th Amendment ? Since it is engraved in the Constitution, and therefore can't be moved . Is that you point of view , or you think that some changes in the Constitution should be made possible ?

bertie 56 · 03-12-2017 8:03pm

v638sg7k1a92bx · 03-12-2017 8:13pm

bertie 56 wrote: »

Ok. So I suppose you agreed that there is no point for the pro-choice people to ask to repeal the 8th Amendment ? Since it is engraved in the Constitution, and therefore can't be moved . Is that you point of view , or you think that some changes in the Constitution should be made possible ?

But that's exactly what will happen. Pro choice activists have successfully lobbied for this and Ireland will have a referendum on the 8th amendment of the constitution in 2018. If the majority of people vote in favour of amending the constitution then abortion will no longer be illegal in Ireland.

Prior to 1996 divorce was illegal under the Irish constitution. A referendum was held and the majority of people voted in favour of changing the constitution to allow for married couples to divorce.

Catalan independence referendum, 2017

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