Property Market 2017

Cyrus

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Actually they mostly are. They will be operational type jobs, sure they'll be VP, AVP positions but they're are still low level jobs.

Any financial companies relocating here because of brexit will be looking to hire local. We don't and won't have a trading floor over here. So there are no high fliers moving here due to brexit.

define low level jobs with VPs?

The_Conductor

PokeHerKing wrote: »

So there are no high fliers moving here due to brexit.

I've personally sat in on a meeting trying to sell Dublin to staff at up to Director level in one large London HQ'ed bank. I assure you- there most certainly are high flying Brexit jobs moving here- perhaps not as many as lots of us would like- but some most certainly are coming.

There are very attractive packages being put together to entice staff to move to Dublin (by their parent companies- not all of whom are UK HQ'ed either).

OfflerCrocGod

keane2097 wrote: »

Honestly it's just laughable nonsense to think that if you put well-paying jobs in Cork or Limerick you wouldn't be able to fill them with good people because it's not Dublin.

Companies are struggling to fill roles in Dublin in IT.

keane2097

OfflerCrocGod wrote: »

Companies are struggling to fill roles in Dublin in IT.

There's nowhere to live in Dublin.

OfflerCrocGod

keane2097 wrote: »

There's nowhere to live in Dublin.

We have the land. We have terrible land use. The two shouldn't be confused.

keane2097

OfflerCrocGod wrote: »

We have the land. We have terrible land use. The two shouldn't be confused.

I agree with you totally.

Rew

The_Conductor wrote: »

I've personally sat in on a meeting trying to sell Dublin to staff at up to Director level in one large London HQ'ed bank

Director in a large bank is a middle management position though?

Cyrus

Rew wrote: »

Director in a large bank is a middle management position though?

hardly low level

PokeHerKing

The_Conductor wrote:

A significant number of the brexit jobs we are chasing- are not 'grunt jobs' that a 20'something can do though- and its all well and good saying bring a couple of hundred financial jobs to Galway and a host of grunt workers will follow them- its just not that simple.

The_Conductor wrote:

I've personally sat in on a meeting trying to sell Dublin to staff at up to Director level in one large London HQ'ed bank. I assure you- there most certainly are high flying Brexit jobs moving here- perhaps not as many as lots of us would like- but some most certainly are coming.

If the headline reads 'JP Morgan moving 1000 jobs due to brexit' I would say 900 will be locally filled sub 100K Euro roles.

So in financial terms they are 90% grunt roles.

I'm sure there will be a 10% spill over of senior VP/director rolls. That may or may not be filled locally.

Dublin's financial standing in the world will be the same after brexit as it was before it but we will have gained employment in the sector from it.

The_Conductor

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one- I definitely don't think you're right- and vice versa you're not going to see eye to eye with me on this one........

VW 1

Rew wrote:

Director in a large bank is a middle management position though?

Which large bank has middle management directors? And how many levels of management would sit above them?

In my experience of three large multinational banks, directors only answer to MDs, so they are certainly a long way from middle management.

kippy

The_Conductor wrote: »

Yes- however, someone looking at what they're paying today- and deciding they are in fine form financially- could have to totally reassess their position- if their interest rates doubled. People think its impossible for interest rates to double- well, no, its not. Historic norms for interest rates in the EU- would suggest an ECB overnight rate of 4-4.5%- and not its current effective negative rate.

People need to look at the bigger picture.

This is the problem. The bigger picture would suggest that rental prices would almost certainly increase in a similar manner. Why would anyone who wants to buy now and can afford to buy now decide that the better option is to continue being at the whim of the rental market when they could buy themselves and deal with the more structured processes available as a homeowner as opposed to being a tenant if and when rates do go up and they may find themselves having issues?
All lot of this varies greatly on ones own circumstances and risk appetite and a lot of it is well after the horse has bolted but there is a great degree of uncertainty out there in the rental and residential housing sector.

theboringfox

PokeHerKing wrote: »

If the headline reads 'JP Morgan moving 1000 jobs due to brexit' I would say 900 will be locally filled sub 100K Euro roles.

So in financial terms they are 90% grunt roles.

I'm sure there will be a 10% spill over of senior VP/director rolls. That may or may not be filled locally.

Dublin's financial standing in the world will be the same after brexit as it was before it but we will have gained employment in the sector from it.

I don't think I've ever seen a sub 100k role called grunt work! Please point me to these 90k grunt roles:)

Diarmuid

PokeHerKing wrote: »

If the headline reads 'JP Morgan moving 1000 jobs due to brexit' I would say 900 will be locally filled sub 100K Euro roles.

So in financial terms they are 90% grunt roles.
.

I think most people's definition of grunt work is something Joe Soap of the street could do. If you have to pay someone 100k to get the job done, then it's a specialist skill.

PokeHerKing

theboringfox wrote:

I don't think I've ever seen a sub 100k role called grunt work! Please point me to these 90k grunt roles

Diarmuid wrote:

I think most people's definition of grunt work is something Joe Soap of the street could do. If you have to pay someone 100k to get the job done, then it's a specialist skill.

I earn a little over half that, my manager probably about 75K and his manager I would say is somewhere around 100K.

Believe me it's grunt work or overseeing of grunt work. Data entry operational crap that a computer programme should really be able to do at this stage.

I wouldn't have a job if the Indians could get their s*it together. Anyone with a leaving cert and basic computer skills could do all of our jobs. That's AVP, VP and a longer serving VP.

I work for one of the many Dublin based multinational finance companies.

That's 90% of the buildings pay structure, with the majority filling the 30-50K bracket.

There is no skill needed. The guys earning 150K+ in London, Paris, NYC are Traders or global heads. They won't be coming to Dublin.

lawred2

Diarmuid wrote: »

I think most people's definition of grunt work is something Joe Soap of the street could do. If you have to pay someone 100k to get the job done, then it's a specialist skill.

likely be regarded as grunt work for that sector

Cyrus

PokeHerKing wrote: »

I earn a little over half that, my manager probably about 75K and his manager I would say is somewhere around 100K.

Believe me it's grunt work or overseeing of grunt work. Data entry operational crap that a computer programme should really be able to do at this stage.

I wouldn't have a job if the Indians could get their s*it together. Anyone with a leaving cert and basic computer skills could do all of our jobs. That's AVP, VP and a longer serving VP.

I work for one of the many Dublin based multinational finance companies.

That's 90% of the buildings pay structure, with the majority filling the 30-50K bracket.

There is no skill needed. The guys earning 150K+ in London, Paris, NYC are Traders or global heads. They won't be coming to Dublin.

yet everyone doing it is at least degree level and some will have masters degrees because you wont get a job there otherwise,

and dont assume the vps are people who just stayed there long enough to be promoted, do you have any idea whats involved in managing a large back office team and meeting the deadlines involved etc

also, you might be surprised at what the VPs are earning,

my wife works in the industry, more recent vps are circa 100k, but the ones that are there from 10 years ago are easily double that if not more

Cyrus

lawred2 wrote: »

likely be regarded as grunt work for that sector

likely to be regarded as grunt work by the front office you mean.

in any sales organisation (and you can include banks in that) back office is always considered grunt work, doesn't make it true or unskilled.

lawred2

Cyrus wrote: »

likely to be regarded as grunt work by the front office you mean.

in any sales organisation (and you can include banks in that) back office is always considered grunt work, doesn't make it true or unskilled.

didn't say it did

Rew

VW 1 wrote: »

Which large bank has middle management directors? And how many levels of management would sit above them?

In my experience of three large multinational banks, directors only answer to MDs, so they are certainly a long way from middle management.

Board + MD/CEO
CXX
VP
Snr Director/Director
Snr Manager Manager
Team Lead
Grunt

Im totally open to correction BTW

PokeHerKing

Cyrus wrote:

my wife works in the industry, more recent vps are circa 100k, but the ones that are there from 10 years ago are easily double that if not more

I don't know any VPs on 200K+ or even close to it but maybe VP in your wife's company would be director/snr director in mine.

The_Conductor

Ok guys- I think we've overthought this- lets park it and move on please.

theboringfox

The_Conductor wrote: »

Ok guys- I think we've overthought this- lets park it and move on please.

Couldn't agree more

Samuel T. Cogley

Thinly veiled I'm just back from holiday, but yet another place I've been which makes me think Dublin prices aren't that insane.

Palermo is a similarity size to Dublin and 1 bed apartments (okay this is a nice one) 260K in fairness their apartments are huge and maybe that's some people's objections to Dublin pricing? Start getting into the touristy parts by the sea and prices go insane. This is a country where you can get a three bedroom villa in the sticks for under €40K.

Now as we drove round, you saw the effect of property speculation and bubbles though - we stayed in a 'newer' town which looked as if it as exactly half finished whenever there bubble popped.

quadrifoglio verde

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Thinly veiled I'm just back from holiday, but yet another place I've been which makes me think Dublin prices aren't that insane.

Palermo is a similarity size to Dublin and 1 bed apartments (okay this is a nice one) 260K in fairness their apartments are huge and maybe that's some people's objections to Dublin pricing? Start getting into the touristy parts by the sea and prices go insane. This is a country where you can get a three bedroom villa in the sticks for under €40K.

Now as we drove round, you saw the effect of property speculation and bubbles though - we stayed in a 'newer' town which looked as if it as exactly half finished whenever there bubble popped.

That 1 bed is bigger than some 3 bedroom houses in Dublin.

I've now found where the Swedish engineer renting his apartment in Dublin gets his photos as well :pac:

myshirt

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

I've now found where the Swedish engineer renting his apartment in Dublin gets his photos as well :pac:

That guy owns a lot of apartments remember! Probably has a portfolio across Europe, and poor guy is so busy working he has never seen any of them.

Bob24

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

That 1 bed is bigger than some 3 bedroom houses in Dublin.

I actually don't get how a 1 bed apartment can have a floor area of 114 square meters especially since I don't see any huge room in the picture to explain it. So I'd say the estate agent who published that could be even worse than an Irish one when it comes to giving you an actuate floor area.

ligerdub

PokeHerKing wrote: »

If the headline reads 'JP Morgan moving 1000 jobs due to brexit' I would say 900 will be locally filled sub 100K Euro roles.

So in financial terms they are 90% grunt roles.

I'm sure there will be a 10% spill over of senior VP/director rolls. That may or may not be filled locally.

Dublin's financial standing in the world will be the same after brexit as it was before it but we will have gained employment in the sector from it.

Ridiculous post. I've worked in finance for years and the idea that sub 100k is some sort of rarity or failure is ridiculous. Salaries in finance have been coming down for years the extreme majority would be on nowhere near that.

PokeHerKing

Re-read my posts. That's exactly what I'm saying. 90% of the financial roles in Dublin are on sub 100K. They will still be sub 100K after brexit. Hence no big ballers moving here as being stated by other posters.

theboringfox

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Re-read my posts. That's exactly what I'm saying. 90% of the financial roles in Dublin are on sub 100K. They will still be sub 100K after brexit. Hence no big ballers moving here as being stated by other posters.

I think in most places the vast majority of staff are on less than a 100k. The big earners are a small percentage and in terms of Property Market those high earners will only have limited impact. It's two earners on 60k can have big impact as that couple can bid up to 500k range. Lot of couples on less than 120k combined and people buying alone etc. If the average Dublin 3 bed semi D is 400k plus then I think any influx of well paid 60k pa jobs will drive the market.

The solution here for Dublin is on supply side. Build much higher and get more places built. People coming to Ireland should be seen as great thing!