Paternity benefit?

Issac

Hello,

I work for a large company that pays maternity benefit (top up) during maternity leave, for the first 18 weeks of maternity leave.

Are the obliged from a sexual equality point of view to paternity benefit (top up) for the 2 weeks of statutory paternity leave?

I tired calling the National Employment Rights Agency but they couldn't tell me.

Thanks!

mordeith

Issac wrote: »

Hello,

I work for a large company that pays maternity benefit (top up) during maternity leave, for the first 18 weeks of maternity leave.

Are the obliged from a sexual equality point of view to paternity benefit (top up) for the 2 weeks of statutory paternity leave?

I tired calling the National Employment Rights Agency but they couldn't tell me.

Thanks!

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/paternity_leave.html

Issac

Thanks for the link. I had seen and read that info but it does not answer the question that I raised.

I understand that I am not ordinarily entitled to paternity benefit top up from my employer (it is paid at their discretion). However women are not ordinarily entitled to a maternity benefit top up either, it's also at the discretion of the employer.

If the employer elects to pay maternity benefit (at their discretion as my one does) do they not have to also pay paternity benefit on the grounds of sexual equality?

pwurple

Hi Issac,

I can't tell you if they are obliged to, but any company I know that does maternity pay also holds the same standard for paternity.

It should be stated in their policies. What does your company do?

Regards,
Jane

mordeith

Issac wrote: »

Thanks for the link. I had seen and read that info but it does not answer the question that I raised.

I understand that I am not ordinarily entitled to paternity benefit top up from my employer (it is paid at their discretion). However women are not ordinarily entitled to a maternity benefit top up either, it's also at the discretion of the employer.

If the employer elects to pay maternity benefit (at their discretion as my one does) do they not have to also pay paternity benefit on the grounds of sexual equality?

Apologies. I didn't fully take in your initial query. However I can only imagine that if the company willingly pays the maternity top-up then they would have to do the same with the paternity top-up. Of course that would be on the assumption that they make this top-up for every maternity application and not on a case-by-case basis.

somesoldiers

pwurple wrote: »

Hi Issac,

I can't tell you if they are obliged to, but any company I know that does maternity pay also holds the same standard for paternity.

It should be stated in their policies. What does your company do?

Regards,
Jane

I am due to become a father for the 2nd time in March. I work for a large company who have always provided paid maternity leave & 3 days to fathers. Since the paternity leave came in in September I have been so surprised at their response- which has been nothing! No update to procedures, no memo to all. Any other little thing and they are quick enough to advise. They knew this was coming long before that but have done nothing. I have been told "this is with the executive committee" for
Months now. In November I was trying to figure out whether I should look to carry over maximum 5 days holidays so my boss got on to them and they have agreed "just this time" to pay me the 2 weeks. I wouldn't have been able to take two weeks And only Get paid 230 otherwise so it would have come off annual leave, which is no big deal anyhow I get 25.
In reality it is very little for them to give to expectant fathers. 10 days, of which they already give 3 and the state would pay for 2 effectively. Arse dragging of the highest order. particularly when they got be it to mothers

shesty

I imagine the answer to the question is that statutorily (statutatorily?) no, they don't have to. At least under the paternity leave legislation. But after that you're then entering into the murky world of sexual equality and gender pay gaps I'd imagine. If (and I have no legal basis or knowledge for this, I'm just trying to be logical), as is to be believed, there are gender pay gaps across companies and industries, then I imagine that there is no requirement on them to top up your pay legally, or under any Statute. I don't agree with it, but my reasoning would be that if the gender pay gaps can exist and there doesn't appear to be any problems under law (unless they are very clearly found out and investigated in individual cases), then topping up paternity pay just to maintain sexuality equality is probably not going to be a consideration for most companies. I'd imagine it's then down to company policy.

As I said, I don't agree with this approach. However you do raise a very interesting point and one that certainly needs further looking in to.

Issac

Hi everyone, thanks for all the replies.

My company hasn't really made much of a call on the situation, yet. I've had an informal char with HR about the situation and they said they'd have to work out how much this would cost them. To be fair they are generally pretty good so hopefully this will go through alright.

They do pay every maternity (once you are full time and above a certain seniority grade) so it's not a case by case situation.

If they do come back and say no they won't pay what would be the best thing to do? Is there any precedent for something like this elsewhere?

polydactyl

My husband works in an unnamed hospital. When this came up apparently management thought it would be a great money saver........ Don't have to pay those men for two weeks!! HR rapidly shut them down apparently pointing out the sex equality court case would cost a lot more and HR would support the claimant!

Issac

Thanks polydactyl, nice info to have. I've sent the official email request to HR here so waiting to hear back now. I'll keep you all updated.

matjay

Hi

I have been looking at applying for Paternity Leave as my wife is due this week? I have looked at the financial side of it and it just isn't logical to take if your employer does not make up the difference!

I was thinking of applying and taking the time in hours as the 230 a week would break down as.

Any thoughts on if this would be OK to do or am I asking for trouble??

The J Stands for Jay

shesty wrote: »

I imagine the answer to the question is that statutorily (statutatorily?) no, they don't have to. At least under the paternity leave legislation. But after that you're then entering into the murky world of sexual equality and gender pay gaps I'd imagine. If (and I have no legal basis or knowledge for this, I'm just trying to be logical), as is to be believed, there are gender pay gaps across companies and industries, then I imagine that there is no requirement on them to top up your pay legally, or under any Statute. I don't agree with it, but my reasoning would be that if the gender pay gaps can exist and there doesn't appear to be any problems under law (unless they are very clearly found out and investigated in individual cases), then topping up paternity pay just to maintain sexuality equality is probably not going to be a consideration for most companies. I'd imagine it's then down to company policy.

As I said, I don't agree with this approach. However you do raise a very interesting point and one that certainly needs further looking in to.

You're right. Nothing has been done to address the fact that women in their twenties earn on average 17% more than their male colleagues. It's unlikely that it'd be possible to make a case for sexual discrimination here.

hognef

McGaggs wrote: »

You're right. Nothing has been done to address the fact that women in their twenties earn on average 17% more than their male colleagues. It's unlikely that it'd be possible to make a case for sexual discrimination here.

There's a difference though: The maternity/paternity leave policies are official, black on white, written down, hence it's trivial to find the actual wrongdoing.

The evidence of the gender pay gap is based on surveys, statistics, averages, etc., hence it's much trickier to pinpoint where it's taking place. I doubt any Irish company will have an official, published, policy of paying women less than men.

seamus

matjay wrote: »

Hi

I have been looking at applying for Paternity Leave as my wife is due this week? I have looked at the financial side of it and it just isn't logical to take if your employer does not make up the difference!

I was thinking of applying and taking the time in hours as the 230 a week would break down as.

Any thoughts on if this would be OK to do or am I asking for trouble??

It's useful to be able to take the two weeks without impacting annual leave. I'm taking two weeks PL + two weeks AL. Which means I'll still have 3 weeks of holidays available for the rest of the year.

I agree that the 230 isn't much, but then women have been dealing with that for years.

You can't allocate your paternity leave in any other way. It's a single two-week period that can only be broken up or put on hold if your child is hospitalised. The penalties for you or your employer for quietly reallocating your time could be big.

fits

You would want to apply quick! These things take time to process. Agree that paternity should be topped up if maternity benefit is.

seamus

fits wrote: »

You would want to apply quick! These things take time to process. Agree that paternity should be topped up if maternity benefit is.

You have to apply 4 weeks before you take it, but you can take it at any time within the first six months. In terms of time, my application has been "in progress" now for a month.