Shane Ross to clean up savage and brutal MMA

TerrorFirmer

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

There's basically no difference between an MMA match and a group of tinker men gathering in a field to knock lumps out of each other.

Clearly you've put a lot of thought into this structured and rational argument that delves into the very depths of the world of MMA.

Is there a podcast I can listen to?

El_Duderino 09

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote:

I'm no fan of Shane Ross, but I welcome this move. It's high time that people called MMA out for what it is (legitimised thuggery)

Yeah it's legitimate thuggery. That's the premise of sports. Create a strict set of rules and let people go at it. If Jamie Heaslip behaved like a rugby player on Grafton Street, he'd be arrested.

Let people enjoy their sport. As long as nobody is forced to take part or watch, then you never gave to pay any attention to MMA.

FTA69

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

You're comparing apples and oranges. MMA is a tiny fringe 'sport'. Comparing it to well established and centuries old sports is silly. Of course boxing will have more fatalities. It's been recognised and regulated as a sport since 1890 or so.

There's basically no difference between an MMA match and a group of tinker men gathering in a field to knock lumps out of each other.

Last year ten odd people died boxing, the year before that another ten people did, stretching all the way back to 1900. People, now, today, are dying from boxing and it is a more dangerous sport than MMA than a country mile as the fatality statistic per year bear out.

And they aren't apples and oranges at all, if you accept that fighting can be construed as a sport via boxing then you swearing blind that fighting via MMA rules isn't a sport is simply ridiculous hypocrisy and double standard.

Funnily enough, the travellers you're alluding to actually fight by old Queensbury boxing rules for the most part so generally would have more in common with that sport than MMA.

Beasty

FTA69 wrote: »

I pointed out correctly that on the whole MMA had a lower fatality rate than swimming and cycling

What an absurd comment. You are presumably talking about absolute numbers, while the term "rate" implies percentage of participants. How many take part in MMA? What proportion are killed (or seriously injured)? Compare that with the percentage of cyclists and swimmers killed (which is absolutely miniscule - there were 10 cyclists killed in Ireland last year and all of those deaths were completely accidental as is the case with swimming) or indeed seriously injured.

Pintman Paddy Losty

FTA69 wrote: »

Last year ten odd people died boxing, the year before that another ten people did, stretching all the way back to 1900. People, now, today, are dying from boxing and it is a more dangerous sport than MMA than a country mile as the fatality statistic per year bear out.

And they aren't apples and oranges at all, if you accept that fighting can be construed as a sport via boxing then you swearing blind that fighting via MMA rules isn't a sport is simply ridiculous hypocrisy and double standard.

Funnily enough, the travellers you're alluding to actually fight by old Queensbury boxing rules for the most part so generally would have more in common with that sport than MMA.

You have an extremely poor grasp of how statistics work.

Boxing is a far more popular sport with a much greater participation rate than MMA which isn't even classified as a sport in most of the world.

Gatling

I blame the cotton wool generation ,

Professor Moriarty

ronnie085 wrote: »

How come the few studies I found with a quick search show that there is a higher chance of injury in mma than other combat sports, including boxing with risk of death around same as boxing yet the line it's safer keeps on getting trotted out unchallenged, love to see where this safer stat comes from.....Anybody

Could you link to those studies that you found? How do they define 'injury'? For example, is a minor cut an injury?

FTA69

ronnie085 wrote: »

How come the few studies I found with a quick search show that there is a higher chance of injury in mma than other combat sports, including boxing with risk of death around same as boxing yet the line it's safer keeps on getting trotted out unchallenged, love to see where this safer stat comes from.....Anybody

http://uk.askmen.com/sports/fanatic_300/316b_which-is-more-dangerous-boxing-or-mma.html

There have been three recorded deaths in the history of MMA. In contrast to that boxing has an average of ten deaths per year.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/507149-boxing-and-brain-damage-statistics/

Your search skills are rubbish.

Billy86

ronnie085 wrote: »

How come the few studies I found with a quick search show that there is a higher chance of injury in mma than other combat sports, including boxing with risk of death around same as boxing yet the line it's safer keeps on getting trotted out unchallenged, love to see where this safer stat comes from.....Anybody

13 fatalities from MMA stretching back over 35 years (only 4 of which were sanctioned fights) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatalities_in_mixed_martial_arts_contests From 1998 to 2006 alone, there were 70 in boxing. As per FTA 10 more died from boxing just last year.

MMA carries a bigger risk of limb injury, joint sprain and fracturing, whereas boxing carries a bigger risk of head injuries like concussions, haemotomas and contusions. I know which I consider more dangerous, how about you?

FTA69

Beasty wrote: »

What an absurd comment. You are presumably talking about absolute numbers, while the term "rate" implies percentage of participants. How many take part in MMA? What proportion are killed (or seriously injured)? Compare that with the percentage of cyclists and swimmers killed (which is absolutely miniscule - there were 10 cyclists killed in Ireland last year and all of those deaths were completely accidental as is the case with swimming) or indeed seriously injured.

What proportion of MMA fighters are killed? A smaller one considering there are three recorded deaths in the 30 year history of a sport practiced in multiple countries on a daily basis. MMA is a nice sport, but it's still huge with a participation rate that is growing on a monthly basis both in Ireland and across the world.

Will we see fatalities again? Probably, the same way we will in a raft of other sports but yet MMA somehow is barbarism personified despite it having less fatalities than other sports and definitely less fatalities than its cousin boxing which is apparently grand altogether.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Billy86 wrote: »

13 fatalities from MMA stretching back over 35 years (only 4 of which were sanctioned fights) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatalities_in_mixed_martial_arts_contests From 1998 to 2006 alone, there were 70 in boxing. As per FTA 10 more died from boxing just last year.

MMA carries a bigger risk of limb injury, joint sprain and fracturing, whereas boxing carries a bigger risk of head injuries like concussions, haemotomas and contusions. I know which I consider more dangerous, how about you?

You don't take the total figures when trying to figure out which is more dangerous. You need to look at participation rates.

I knew MMA fans are fairly slow, but surely even that much is obvious.

FTA69

Billy86 wrote: »

13 fatalities from MMA stretching back over 35 years (only 4 of which were sanctioned fights) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatalities_in_mixed_martial_arts_contests From 1998 to 2006 alone, there were 70 in boxing. As per FTA 10 more died from boxing just last year.

MMA carries a bigger risk of limb injury, joint sprain and fracturing, whereas boxing carries a bigger risk of head injuries like concussions, haemotomas and contusions. I know which I consider more dangerous, how about you?

Stop the lights. I got a concussion twice while boxing and only last year a lad in my gym nearly went blind from a detached retina. The worst I got doing BJJ was a strained neck.

FTA69

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

You don't take the total figures when trying to figure out which is more dangerous. You need to look at participation rates.

I knew MMA fans are fairly slow, but surely even that much is obvious.

What you need to understand is that a sport like boxing actively promotes and encourages repeated head strikes with heavy gloves that increase the impact of one's punch. Even if a person has sustained massive head trauma as long as they are somewhat cognisant they're allowed to carry on. MMA fighters take nowhere near that level of brain punishment.

Why is MMA barbaric but repeatedly boxing someone in the head for 12 rounds is kosher?

Tom Mann Centuria

French regulation that (effectively) bans the sport or no regulation. There's plenty of room in between those two options, so why not wait and see what regulation gets suggested and then celebrate, wring the hands or do whatever response you feel appropriate.

diomed

FTA69 wrote: »

Despite that however, MMA has a much lower fatality rate than swimming or cycling or horse riding. It especially has a lower fatality rate than boxing, a sport that has a huge tradition in Ireland and has done us proud internationally,

I would like to see those statistics.
You might be confusing
1) accidental drownings with fatalities in competitive swimming
2) cyclists killed by trucks with cyclists killed in competitive cycling events
3) horses killed in horse racing with jockeys/riders killed.

Here are a few stats I found about fatalities in sport
Base Jumping 1 in 60
Hang Gliding 1 in 560
Boxing 1 in 2,200
Bicycling 1 in 140,845
Swimming 1 in 1,000,000

This article says there are no good statistics of MMA deaths compared to MMA contests.
http://www.thejournal.ie/the-journal-factcheck-mma-boxing-safety-injury-2713577-Apr2016/

Billy86

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

You don't take the total figures when trying to figure out which is more dangerous. You need to look at participation rates.

I knew MMA fans are fairly slow, but surely even that much is obvious.

I'll put it in pictures to make it nice and simple for you.
http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/2714514/original/?width=630&version=2714514
http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/2714525/original/?width=630&version=2714525

Omackeral

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

http://www.the42.ie/shane-ross-mma-disturbing-3172984-Jan2017/

I'm no fan of Shane Ross, but I welcome this move. It's high time that people called MMA out for what it is (legitimised thuggery)

Minister Ross plans to have the 'sport' tightly regulated. I would actually prefer an outright ban, but hopefully his regulation of the sport helps remove some of the more disturbing aspects.

Say bye bye to boxing so.

Omackeral

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Sensible opinions like that won't go down well with the UFC fanbase. (Overweight men who wear Tap out teeshirts)

Original, I'll give you that.

longshanks

I know of lads dropping dead on a hurling or football pitch. Let's ban pitches.

Omackeral

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

The popularity of MMA shows that there is a real crisis of masculinity amongst the young and angry men who make up its target audience.

I honestly don't get this. What's different to boxing? It's a science as much as that is? It's many sciences/skill sets meshed actually. People watching it seem to be really happy about oing to it, discussing it etc. Parties happen around it. I never see people angry watching it, quite the opposite.

FTA69

diomed wrote: »

I would like to see those statistics.
You might be confusing
1) accidental drownings with fatalities in competitive swimming
2) cyclists killed by trucks with cyclists killed in competitive cycling events
3) horses killed in horse racing with jockeys/riders killed.

Here are a few stats I found about fatalities in sport
Base Jumping 1 in 60
Hang Gliding 1 in 560
Boxing 1 in 2,200
Bicycling 1 in 140,845
Swimming 1 in 1,000,000

This article says there are no good statistics of MMA deaths compared to MMA contests.
http://www.thejournal.ie/the-journal-factcheck-mma-boxing-safety-injury-2713577-Apr2016/

Obviously swimming and cycling etc are different from combat sports - the reason I included them was because some people have seized upon the fatality in MMA last year and simplistically declared "Ah sure someone died doing it, therefore ban it" which is silly because ALL sports and physical pursuits present risks,

I'm not suggesting that going for a cycle is akin to having a fight.

Omackeral

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

There's basically no difference between an MMA match and a group of tinker men gathering in a field to knock lumps out of each other.

....and there goes whatever credibility you had.

Ferrari3600

There are plenty of doctors who have long argued that boxing should be banned.

That's not me making a pro-MMA argument - but its defenders do have a point about the lack of consistency of its attackers.

Saipanne

Boxing should be banned, if anything. Forcing concussed fighters to fight on, round after round. Mockery of a "sport".

El_Duderino 09

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote:

You're comparing apples and oranges. MMA is a tiny fringe 'sport'. Comparing it to well established and centuries old sports is silly. Of course boxing will have more fatalities. It's been recognised and regulated as a sport since 1890 or so.

Why is he age if the sport relevant?

RayM wrote:

Regulated thuggery.

Yes. Regulated.

Gatling wrote:

I blame the cotton wool generation ,

Yeah the ones taking part are the soft snowflakes the older folks are always whining about.

There are deaths in sports old folks enjoy, like boxing, and that's not a problem. But deaths in MMA is a major knicker twister.

If 2 people want to train to fight and knock lumps out of each other for my amusement, then let them at it. They know the risks better than anyone. If they get hurt or killed, that's their look out.

You can turn on the news and see infra red images of terrorists being intentionally shot dead by a drone. Seeing people die isn't the problem. So what is the problem?

I know I'll never be hurt in an MMA match. Neither will anyone who doesn't want to take part.

It's not what the old folds are use to. They knows what they likes and they likes what they knows

tayto lover

I'm still not convinced that it should qualify as a sport.
You should not be allowed to strike an opponent who has fallen to the ground and may already be unconscious.

Gatling

tayto lover wrote: »

I'm still not convinced that it should qualify as a sport.
You should not be allowed to strike an opponent who has fallen to the ground and may already be unconscious.

The same person on the ground can easily take you down just as quick

mzungu

Pat Mustard wrote: »

It's great having Shane Ross as a minister for something or other, so that he can give out about something or other.

Wasn't he going to investigate the Olympic Council of Ireland before? Tumbleweed ever since.

Meanwhile, Pat Hickey is still listed as President on the OCI website. I see in his profile that he was a former Irish judo champion.

I'd like to see him fight Shane Ross. Ross would last about ten seconds.

Maybe Hickey could put him "back in his box" Undertaker style!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkUSxPwdt8w

Billy86

tayto lover wrote: »

I'm still not convinced that it should qualify as a sport.
You should not be allowed to strike an opponent who has fallen to the ground and may already be unconscious.

This may be of interest to you.

Full Marx

FTA69 wrote: »

He was Portuguese. Secondly you'd swear MMA is "anything goes/ no holds barred" the way people are banging on. The sport has a pretty comprehensive rule set governing what is and isn't permissible. Unfortunately, like any other sport or strenuous activity - accidents happen and fatalities occur. Despite that however, MMA has a much lower fatality rate than swimming or cycling or horse riding. It especially has a lower fatality rate than boxing, a sport that has a huge tradition in Ireland and has done us proud internationally,

Funnily enough though, the likes of Michael Carruth and Katie Taylor aren't portrayed as unskilled thugs in an activity which should be banned.

A lot more people cycle and swim than engage in MMA.

And very few cyclists end up brain damaged with concussion related injuries in their middle/old age.

I am not a MMA fan but I think it should be viewed the same as boxing.
They are foolish sports, pummeling people is not my idea of sport.

FTA69

Full Marx wrote: »

.

I am not a MMA fan but I think it should be viewed the same as boxing.
They are foolish sports, pummeling people is not my idea of sport.

With all the respect don't do them then. Whether you like it or not, combat sports have been considered "sports" since the Ancient Greeks had boxing and wrestling in the Olympics. It isn't to your taste, that's fair enough. To each their own and all that.

It's a different story though when people are trying to decategorise your activity, falsely portray you as a dopey barbarian and then try and ban your sport because they don't like or understand it.

ronnie085

FTA69 wrote: »

ronnie085 wrote: »

How come the few studies I found with a quick search show that there is a higher chance of injury in mma than other combat sports, including boxing with risk of death around same as boxing yet the line it's safer keeps on getting trotted out unchallenged, love to see where this safer stat comes from.....Anybody

http://uk.askmen.com/sports/fanatic_300/316b_which-is-more-dangerous-boxing-or-mma.html

There have been three recorded deaths in the history of MMA. In contrast to that boxing has an average of ten deaths per year.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/507149-boxing-and-brain-damage-statistics/

Your search skills are rubbish.

On phone so can't link, diomed linked one I found with a two second search, another on a reference in a Wikipedia article. Just trying to "educate" myself as I always hear mma fans say. Not a boxing fan either, don't get how mma fans always make comparisons to boxing, a somewhat related sport, small sport syndrome maybe 😉

Pac1Man

These threads always follow the same pattern:

"Ban it!"

"But what about boxing etc."

"OK then regulate it."

"How?"

"I don't know, but it's a fancy word."


Wanting to ban something that people choose to do and that doesn'tt effect you is idiotic.

76544567

Shane Ross thinks rush hour on the bus is in the middle of the school holidays after 9am.
Id say if you asked him what MMA is he wouldnt have a clue.

Bandage

Shane Ross is a keen tennis player and will have his finger on the pulse here.

GerryDerpy

Anybody that thinks MMA is more dangerous than boxing is going full retard. Never go full retard.

As a huge MMA fan I would welcome considered and fair regulation of the sport.

FTA69

ronnie085 wrote: »

On phone so can't link, diomed linked one I found with a two second search, another on a reference in a Wikipedia article. Just trying to "educate" myself as I always hear mma fans say. Not a boxing fan either, don't get how mma fans always make comparisons to boxing, a somewhat related sport, small sport syndrome maybe 😉

MMA fans make comparison to boxing because the latter is statistically more dangerous than the former and is also a combat sport but doesn't come in for the same sh*te. (Although boxing has its fair share of criticism too).

As for the small sport syndrome, I don't know why you're directing that at me as I've never competed in MMA in my life. Boxing was and is my sport.

Full Marx

FTA69 wrote: »

With all the respect don't do them then. Whether you like it or not, combat sports have been considered "sports" since the Ancient Greeks had boxing and wrestling in the Olympics. It isn't to your taste, that's fair enough. To each their own and all that.

It's a different story though when people are trying to decategorise your activity, falsely portray you as a dopey barbarian and then try and ban your sport because they don't like or understand it.

I agree I dont do it thats why I said it should be viewed the same as boxing ie regulated etc. I'm not saying it should be banned. I'm saying it is stupid and borderline irresponsible as you are jeopardizing your health

Wrestling does not involve striking. There is a massive difference.

Depp

_oveless_ wrote: »

m&a is trash it's just 2 guys pretending to do boxing for a minute then they grab onto each other and fall onto the ground and roll around on the floor for 45 mins a good streetfighter would kill any of them

hoping this is a joke as i found it quite funny

mansize wrote: »

I am not calling for a ban, I'm calling for regulation- do you support that?

if you'd care to research youd see the guys who run mma in ireland have been striving for regulation long before joao carvalhos death. like it or not its a sport and the only reason it hasnt been regulated long ago is a few small minded morons in the isc and the imac holding it up to protect their own sports

KERSPLAT!

The MMA forum would be much better suited for this.

I'll lock this, a new thread can be created there. Please read the charted before you do.