Russian E-Mail hacking allegations.

Hector Bellend

Has anyone seen any evidence to back up the recent claims concerning russian hacking the recent presidential election.

Is it just me or is the last sting of a dying wasp.

weisses

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Has anyone seen any evidence to back up the recent claims concerning russian hacking the recent presidential election.

Is it just me or is the last sting of a dying wasp.

Who or what is the dying wasp ?

Hector Bellend

weisses wrote: »

Who or what is the dying wasp ?

Just an expression.

It would appear that the democrats are trying harder than usual to prevent a republican president-elect from taking office.

Including what appears to be a fabricated story regarding his very election.

I know people dislike Donald Trump but its getting ridiculous.

weisses

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Just an expression.

It would appear that the democrats are trying harder than usual to prevent a republican president-elect from taking office.

Including what appears to be a fabricated story regarding his very election.

I know people dislike Donald Trump but its getting ridiculous.

Problem with your analysis is the fact the republicans dislike this as well.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/12/12/mcconnell-says-congress-probe-russian-election-hack/95331688/

The only one saying the CIA is wrong looks to be Trump himself

rolion

Leave politics aside for a short byte...
IF US of A shows the technical evidence which identifies that they fully spied on ALL of the Ecommunications in and out of Russian infrastructure, then Putin will have to release the satelitte proves of the non 9/11.
Game over for this planet that will survive but its inhabitants not.
I hope im wrong.

Muhammed_1

The whole Russian hacking thing seems to be fake news in my opinion.

Hacking may well have taken place but the US and others also hack all the time.

It is the idea that Russia successfully hacked and influenced the election that is false.

The dying wasp is the US. I agree that the US is in decline and I don't think it will go out with a whimper, more like with a big bang.


The US are extremely arrogant and they seem to see themselves as some sort of superheros living in a shining city on a hill. I expect them to throw tantrums.

The US is considered to be a major driver of terrorism around the world by many countries populations.

super_furry

If it was just Democrats coming out and saying it then maybe, but basically everyone involved in the American intelligence agencies are saying the same thing. Putin influenced the election to favour Trump.

Hector Bellend

weisses wrote: »

Problem with your analysis is the fact the republicans dislike this as well.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/12/12/mcconnell-says-congress-probe-russian-election-hack/95331688/

The only one saying the CIA is wrong looks to be Trump himself

That may be the case but they havent backed up their claims in a satisfactory manner.

Hector Bellend

super_furry wrote: »

If it was just Democrats coming out and saying it then maybe, but basically everyone involved in the American intelligence agencies are saying the same thing. Putin influenced the election to favour Trump.

They may be saying it. Have they proved it?

Muhammed_1

It's no surprise that the entire establishment is against Trump.

That's what it is.

Trump versus the establishment.

I don't trust or believe the CIA, or the FBI, or the others.

They have lied in the past to benefit themselves. Therefore, they could be lying again now.

Of course they could be telling the truth but I have no reason to believe that.

They've cried wolf too many times to be taken seriously now.


Russia seems perfectly reasonable to me. I am not being convinced by the media.

Clarebelly

super_furry wrote: »

Putin influenced the election to favour Trump.

What exactly was said to be done that influenced the election to favour Trump?
I am not hearing this from anybody.

The whole hacking allegation thing stinks to high heaven.

Muhammed_1

Russian newspapers and media outlets published articles and reports about the US election.

That is being held up as 'interference'.

I am not joking.


Is anyone falling for this fake news?

The US appears to have nothing to offer except lies and propaganda. Trump could well be a breath of fresh air.

weisses

Hector Bellend wrote: »

That may be the case but they havent backed up their claims in a satisfactory manner.

Problem is .. as I said earlier that its not only democrats complaining ... which was your issue in regards to these allegations

weisses

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

It's no surprise that the entire establishment is against Trump.

That's what it is.

Trump versus the establishment.

I don't trust or believe the CIA, or the FBI, or the others.

They have lied in the past to benefit themselves. Therefore, they could be lying again now.

Of course they could be telling the truth but I have no reason to believe that.

They've cried wolf too many times to be taken seriously now.

And yet you seem to have no issues with Trump .... Hilarious

Muhammed_1

Did I say I had no issues with Trump?

Work on your comprehension please.

schizo1014

US intelligence agencies are saying that RT and other Russian news outlets influenced the election, well that is tough fecking sh!t for the US that there own citizens are fed up with the MSM and use RT as a news outlet. They are clutching at straws here, it would be laughable if it wasn't so serious!

The democrats through there own doing lost the election, Trump is the most incompetent man to ever run for election and the democrats decide to put Hilary forward who had more than just a few skeletons in her closet, Sanders would have ran away with it had he been choosing but they chose the one person who is just as controversial than trump and this was before the whole wikileaks thing. Russia didn't need to do anything to get Trump elected.

ScumLord

I wouldn't put it past the Russians, or the Americans for that matter. Cyber attacks seem to be the new way to attack states without provoking a full on angry response.

I'd say the US and Russia are basically at war on the net and we don't hear half the things they get up to.

Hector Bellend

weisses wrote: »

Problem is .. as I said earlier that its not only democrats complaining ... which was your issue in regards to these allegations

My issue is that a)they are either unsubstantiated or b) absolutely untrue

weisses

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

Did I say I had no issues with Trump?

Work on your comprehension please.

"seem" is the magic word

weisses

Hector Bellend wrote: »

My issue is that a)they are either unsubstantiated or b) absolutely untrue

So what is fabricated and how ? ... why?

Or is it just a hunch?

Hector Bellend

weisses wrote: »

So what is fabricated and how ? ... why?

Or is it just a hunch?

The fact that no credible evidence has been produced leads me to believe that this story is bogus.

Hector Bellend

weisses wrote: »

So what is fabricated and how ? ... why?

Or is it just a hunch?

The why is to prevent Trump from taking office.

The how is that the story has been circulated with no viable evidence in support of it.

weisses

Hector Bellend wrote: »

The fact that no credible evidence has been produced leads me to believe that this story is bogus.

Have a read through this

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

Keeping in mind "the declassified report does not and cannot include the full supporting information, including specific intelligence and
sources and methods" ... which is logical

Muhammed_1

Ordinary people shouldn't have to hack their own government in order to find out the truth.

If Hillary Clinton didn't have huge numbers of secrets there wouldn't have been anything to reveal.

Secrecy among governments is part of the problem.


It seems clear that many politicians don't intend to represent the interests of their own electorates. That is the fundamental problem.

Even in Ireland there's huge secrecy about immigration and other issues. Can the people not be told the truth?


I'm sick and tired of corrupt and self-serving governments.

ScumLord

Hector Bellend wrote: »

My issue is that a)they are either unsubstantiated or b) absolutely untrue

What lead you to that opinion?


I don't think there is hard proof that the Russian government directed or ordered the attack in the public domain. But that doesn't mean there isn't proof, it may just mean that the proof American agencies has isn't the kind of proof they can really admit to having because it comes from their extensive snooping on everybody.

The whole thing could just be a shot at undermining Trump, wouldn't put that past any American political group either.

I don't think the emails really would have made that much difference, Trump had the momentum to win the election. This is just handbags stuff.

Hector Bellend

ScumLord wrote: »

What lead you to that opinion?


I don't think there is hard proof that the Russian government directed or ordered the attack in the public domain. But that doesn't mean there isn't proof, it may just mean that the proof American agencies has isn't the kind of proof they can really admit to having because it comes from their extensive snooping on everybody.

The whole thing could just be a shot at undermining Trump, wouldn't put that past any American political group either.

I don't think the emails really would have made that much difference, Trump had the momentum to win the election. This is just handbags stuff.

I don't believe that the evidence exists either. I believe that it's an obvious and baseless attempt to invalidate Donald Trumps presidency.

If it doesn't exist then these allegations should never have been made.If it does exist then why the big secret?

If we take it one step further and assume that the evidence doesnt exist, isnt this an attempt by the powers that be to influence the election, the very thing they are accusing the russians of.

weisses

Hector Bellend wrote: »

I don't believe that the evidence exists either. I believe that it's an obvious and baseless attempt to invalidate Donald Trumps presidency.

If it doesn't exist then these allegations should never have been made.If it does exist then why the big secret?

If we take it one step further and assume that the evidence doesnt exist, isnt this an attempt by the powers that be to influence the election, the very thing they are accusing the russians of.

He made allegations along the same line during the campaign .. Which lead to the controversy regarding accepting his possible loss

In a remarkable statement that seemed to cast doubt on American democracy, Donald J. Trump said Wednesday that he might not accept the results of next month’s election if he felt it was rigged against him

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/20/us/politics/presidential-debate.html


Ironic isn't it

ScumLord

Hector Bellend wrote: »

I don't believe that the evidence exists either. I believe that it's an obvious and baseless attempt to invalidate Donald Trumps presidency.

If it doesn't exist then these allegations should never have been made.If it does exist then why the big secret?

If we take it one step further and assume that the evidence doesnt exist, isnt this an attempt by the powers that be to influence the election, the very thing they are accusing the russians of.

But there is evidence, it's just not conclusive at confirming the Russian government ordered the attack, but it certainly came from Russia.

This link seems to have a fairly reasonable breakdown of the evidence.
https://theintercept.com/2016/12/14/heres-the-public-evidence-russia-hacked-the-dnc-its-not-enough/

But that still doesn't mean that the US hasn't got other evidense and like I said the reasons for not presenting it to the public (at this time) is because they may have used somewhat illegal ways to get it through their unfettered spying of global communications.

There could be other aspects of the evidence that may bring up national security issues.


But there is evidence.

Muhammed_1

Scumlord, I have read your article. It states throughout and concludes that it is not possible to definitively prove that Russia did this.

Therefore, to claim that Russia did this is reckless in the extreme.

Does the US want a war with Russia?

Is that what ordinary people want?

I wish Obama and the US intelligence agencies in general would stop with the anti-Russia rhetoric. It is tedious and dangerous. They are such sore losers.


The US are certinaly the worlds No. 1 hackers.

They are total hypocrites. I am sick and tired of their hypocrisy.

flutered

the u.s. security convinced many that iraq had weapons of mass destruction

weisses

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

I wish Obama and the US intelligence agencies in general would stop with the anti-Russia rhetoric. It is tedious and dangerous. They are such sore losers.They are total hypocrites. I am sick and tired of their hypocrisy.

Don't forget republicans .... And they won

rolion

i can't imagine the laughing on the face of the Russian security services...

pfurey101

I think this is typical of today's "news" services.

You can either:

(a) pick which side of the reported story that suits your agenda / which ever sets of facts that you "know" to be true

or

(b) do not believe any of them.

It's sad and it's getting worse.

rolion

From the funny pictures topic:

here

juno10353

Russia, USA, China, Korea, UK, Germany are all spying on each other in one form or another. Hackers are employed by all agencies, fact of life. The fact that people within the Democratic Party had their emails etc exposed, showing their disregard for the American electorate, is what helped Trump. If the Democratic Party, and many of the Republican Party, had been more in touch with the electorate then the hacking would have had no influence.

juno10353

It is the content of the the hacked emails that influenced the election, not who did the hacking

Dohnjoe

Trump's incoming chief of staff has said that Trump is now not denying Russian hacking involvement

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/08/donald-trump-not-denying-russia-hacking-report-reince-priebus

Donald Trump no longer denies that Russia orchestrated a cyber-attack against Hillary Clinton’s campaign and her party, according to his top advisers, who also blamed Democrats for the breach and falsely characterized the testimony of an intelligence chief to Congress.

fryup

So the Russians have Trump in the hot seat...with the knowledge that they have material of him in a compromising position?? which in the long term will work in their favour??

is that the gist of it??

Dohnjoe

fryup wrote: »

So the Russians have Trump in the hot seat...with the knowledge that they have material of him in a compromising position??

That's unsubstantiated so far.

which in the long term will work in their favour??

Very much so. Russia has been sidelined, sanctioned and condemned internationally for several years now (Ukraine, Crimea, Syria, high profile murders, etc), Putin wants to reverse that, boost Russia internationally - which involves supporting those individuals/organisations that favor the Kremlin, whilst undermining those that don't (by almost any means)

Stealthfins

This sht was going on during the 80's oh the Russians are the boogyman ohhh the Russians are going to do this that and the other.
The Russians are off the coast in big bad submarine's.
Ohhh the Russians are spying on all of us oh the Russians are bad.

It's all bullsht.

The Russians are not trying to influence the whole world with their version of democracy or trying to police the world.

I'd say the majority of people giving out about the Russians are under 28, it took be long enough for the Russians and the Americans to build up a trust amongst each other.
Now people are trying to Stoke the flame's again.

I notice a lot of contradiction in people giving out about Russia,but totally dismiss what other powerful countries have done in the past.

Russia never interfered when the west invaded Iraq under false pretenses.
They weren't jumping up and down pulling their hair out.

Russia are a very clever powerful nation.

Are some people blind to the fact that our very own emails phone calls etc have been monitored for decades not by the Russians now.

Just don't poke the bear.

The bogyman lol

Dohnjoe

Stealthfins wrote: »

This sht was going on during the 80's oh the Russians are the boogyman ohhh the Russians are going to do this that and the other.
The Russians are off the coast in big bad submarine's.
Ohhh the Russians are spying on all of us oh the Russians are bad.

The captain of one of those submarines took the decision to launch nuclear torpedoes at US destroyers, however one of the officers prevented the launch - probably preventing all out nuclear war

Just one of several other incidents that brought the world to the brink. For both sides the other was the bogeyman and with good reason.

Russia are a very clever powerful nation.

Indeed, but also becoming increasingly nationalistic and sliding backward in many respects

Not helped by the recent annexation of territory, flaunting international rules and agreements, sheltering wanted foreign leaders, high-level corruption involving inner circles, intimidation and murder of opposition politicians, violence towards a press that is increasing falling under state control, doping scandals, alleged hacking, support of Assad, obstructing aid convoys, engaging in a protracted information war, alleged interference in foreign elections, etc

You know, the kind of stuff people rail the US for during the Cold War