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SEC getting desperate???

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    #32
    SlinkyL
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭SlinkyL


    Slightly off-topic, but last year I did July provision, 20 hours, close enough to home. Really helped the student re-engage with subject, very high functioning Aspergers, very bright, anxiety issues preventing progress. That part of it was great however in November got paid, €414. Did two mornings a week through the month of July. Had to organise childcare some of those mornings. Never again. Previous year did reader at the school I was working in. LC, all higher level, long exams. Less than €400. Never again. Wouldn't even consider marking at the rates they pay. Much prefer to enjoy June.
    Currently working full hours,Rpt contract. point two of new scale. January most recent pay was €920. Childcare and petrol costs leave me about 300 per week for all other expenses and this is just for after-school childcare.
    I'm science qualified and retrained as a teacher in my early 30s. If salaries stay as dire as they are I will leave the profession, I enjoy it, I love my subjects but the pay is unsustainable for me.
    I hope SEC, July provision and the profession generally starts to really have difficulty getting people to work for this money as in my opinion, nothing else will see any improvement in NQT salariee


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    #33
    gavwaldo
    Registered Users Posts: 103 ✭✭gavwaldo


    I reckon the SEC will be alright on recruitment this year after their big recruitment blitz but next year they'll be screwed again as all those newly recruited will refuse to do it again. They've lost all good will with the people they rely on.


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    #34
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,927 ✭✭✭doc_17


    Gebgbegb wrote: »
    For me all in 3k... after tax, travel, this and that approx 1.7 k ... got 400 advance at the start and the rest about 2 1/2 months after I'd finished.

    Unless you are a robot that can work without sleep then another job at the same time is very very difficult.
    First year is hell after that it's not so bad. But expect to write off July and lock yer self in a room without distractions.

    What subject/level was that at? I corrected FL JC Maths in 2012. Got €700 into my hand for the 21 days. The rate was cut by 25% the next year. Never again.


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    #35
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    gavwaldo wrote: »
    I reckon the SEC will be alright on recruitment this year after their big recruitment blitz but next year they'll be screwed again as all those newly recruited will refuse to do it again. They've lost all good will with the people they rely on.

    SEC are employing anyone now at all. Correcting standard at JC is scandalous. Lots of people correcting who have never stood in a classroom. Lots of people correcting who are also working full-time jobs during the summer so you can imagine the standard. It is the students who lose out but that is the FG way.


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    #36
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    SEC are employing anyone now at all. Correcting standard at JC is scandalous. Lots of people correcting who have never stood in a classroom. Lots of people correcting who are also working full-time jobs during the summer so you can imagine the standard. It is the students who lose out but that is the FG way.

    Yes I definitely agree with this - very strange results this year - students who would achieve an A getting Bs and vice versa. Its scandalous who they are letting correct now. Maybe they'll have to recruit leaving cert students next.


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    #37
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    mtoutlemonde wrote: »
    Yes I definitely agree with this - very strange results this year - students who would achieve an A getting Bs and vice versa. Its scandalous who they are letting correct now. Maybe they'll have to recruit leaving cert students next.

    I think it's a disgrace that we can't see the JC papers before the parents have to pay to check them


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    #38
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    I think it's a disgrace that we can't see the JC papers before the parents have to pay to check them

    Yes I agree but that would incur huge fees for the SEC sending back JC papers back to each school and collection.


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    #39
    implausible
    Registered Users Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭implausible


    Mardy Bum wrote:
    SEC are employing anyone now at all. Correcting standard at JC is scandalous. Lots of people correcting who have never stood in a classroom. Lots of people correcting who are also working full-time jobs during the summer so you can imagine the standard. It is the students who lose out but that is the FG way.

    Any evidence of this? A few unexpected results in a school doesn't make the standard scandalous.

    Have people noticed a large increase in non-teachers attending conferences?


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    #40
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    implausible wrote: »
    Any evidence of this? A few unexpected results in a school doesn't make the standard scandalous.

    Have people noticed a large increase in non-teachers attending conferences?

    Many of ours were very young. A couple of brand new NQTs in our group of 8 or so. AFAIK all in our advisor's group were teachers. JC OL subject.


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    #41
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    implausible wrote: »
    Any evidence of this? A few unexpected results in a school doesn't make the standard scandalous.

    Have people noticed a large increase in non-teachers attending conferences?

    I've worked in a lot of schools and previous colleagues said the same and it has come up here in various threads.
    I have also seen a number of posters here and on Voice for Teachers with similar queries 'I've a degree in English - can I correct exam papers?' - In my opinion, it should be a no unless they have a teaching qualification and some teaching experience. I can't say anything re conferences as I always seem to meet up with correctors I know and don't interview the new ones.


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    #42
    cmssjone
    Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭cmssjone


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    SEC are employing anyone now at all. Correcting standard at JC is scandalous. Lots of people correcting who have never stood in a classroom. Lots of people correcting who are also working full-time jobs during the summer so you can imagine the standard. It is the students who lose out but that is the FG way.

    Perhaps a FOI request would reveal the ratio of teachers:non-teachers.


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    #43
    Elemonator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭Elemonator


    Always correct OL.

    Would they be taking college students? Asking for a friend.


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    #44
    Bean Scoile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 83 ✭✭Bean Scoile


    Elemonator wrote: »
    Always correct OL.

    Would they be taking college students? Asking for a friend.

    Minimum requirement to apply is a degree in the subject, afaik.

    In recent years I have seen pme students who have one year of their course complete.

    The only non teachers I have met at conferences have been 3rd level lecturers, and I met a primary school teacher once.


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    #45
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    Elemonator wrote: »
    Always correct OL.

    Would they be taking college students? Asking for a friend.

    What OL do you always correct? You only did your LC less than two years ago.


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    #46
    feardeas
    Registered Users Posts: 307 ✭✭feardeas


    implausible wrote:
    Any evidence of this? A few unexpected results in a school doesn't make the standard scandalous.

    implausible wrote:
    Have people noticed a large increase in non-teachers attending conferences?


    Widespread in our place this year. Like a bad set of mock marking TBH. Never saw anything like it. Heard the same in 'six different schools over three counties


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    #47
    Crazyteacher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭Crazyteacher


    Even if they are corrected by unqualified people , these people are still held to the same scrutiny as qualified teachers. If they were off on their marking , supervising examiners would pick up on it very quickly and if they didn't improve they'd soon be dismissed. I know my past supervisors wouldn't let me get away with a mark out of place.


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    #48
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,247 ✭✭✭✭km79


    Crazyteacher wrote: »
    Even if they are corrected by unqualified people , these people are still held to the same scrutiny as qualified teachers. If they were off on their marking , supervising examiners would pick up on it very quickly and if they didn't improve they'd soon be dismissed. I know my past supervisors wouldn't let me get away with a mark out of place.

    But they aren't qualified teachers ! They should be let NOWHERE near a students state exams . Penny pinching has lead to this .
    I did Biology in college. Should I be let prescribe Doctors certs to patients ? If the Dept was responsible for doctors I probably would. Sure Biology / medicine ''tis all the same right ?


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    #49
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    Crazyteacher wrote: »
    Even if they are corrected by unqualified people , these people are still held to the same scrutiny as qualified teachers. If they were off on their marking , supervising examiners would pick up on it very quickly and if they didn't improve they'd soon be dismissed. I know my past supervisors wouldn't let me get away with a mark out of place.

    I know a supervising examiner qualified only 5/6 years and who has never held longer than a maternity leave position (lots of good experience I'm sure but no experience of taking a class all the way through the curriculum) . I'm surprised that level of experience would allow promotion to that level.


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    #50
    Elemonator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭Elemonator


    Athena Fresh Saucepan wrote: »
    What OL do you always correct? You only did your LC less than two years ago.

    Based on the opinions of older family. Two aunties did commerce and went on to be business and something else teachers.


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    #51
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    I've sat beside someone with only a degree at a marking conference. They asked what distribution was in algebra....


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    #52
    amacca
    Registered Users Posts: 6,962 ✭✭✭amacca


    Crazyteacher wrote: »
    Even if they are corrected by unqualified people , these people are still held to the same scrutiny as qualified teachers. If they were off on their marking , supervising examiners would pick up on it very quickly and if they didn't improve they'd soon be dismissed. I know my past supervisors wouldn't let me get away with a mark out of place.

    But if the numbers of papers coming back that are not up to scratch is increasing the task of ensuring a certain standard across the board gets harder and eventually the supervising examiner can't hold back the tide.....

    They should just pay properly for the task....its difficult tedious work.


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    #53
    Crazyteacher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭Crazyteacher


    km79 wrote: »
    But they aren't qualified teachers ! They should be let NOWHERE near a students state exams . Penny pinching has lead to this .
    I did Biology in college. Should I be let prescribe Doctors certs to patients ? If the Dept was responsible for doctors I probably would. Sure Biology / medicine ''tis all the same right ?

    It's not my hiring policy. You should take it up with the SEC if you are that concerned.


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    #54
    Crazyteacher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭Crazyteacher


    Athena Fresh Saucepan wrote: »
    I know a supervising examiner qualified only 5/6 years and who has never held longer than a maternity leave position (lots of good experience I'm sure but no experience of taking a class all the way through the curriculum) . I'm surprised that level of experience would allow promotion to that level.


    A qualified teacher. If they had someone who was more experienced as a teacher who had applied for the position then they would have hired them instead.


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    #55
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    Crazyteacher wrote: »
    A qualified teacher. If they had someone who was more experienced as a teacher who had applied for the position then they would have hired them instead.

    I never suggested otherwise. But I would not have the faith in supervising examiners that you appear to have if such inexperienced people are at that level - even moreso if they are now trying to ensure quality control over less and less qualified correctors.


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    #56
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,247 ✭✭✭✭km79


    Crazyteacher wrote: »
    It's not my hiring policy. You should take it up with the SEC if you are that concerned.

    You are arguing that the standard is the same if they are marked by qualified / unqualified personel due to the stringent checks....I disagree . Strongly . I am discussing this with you not the SEC.


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    #57
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Were these examples of bad SEC marking re-checked?
    If so, what happened, if not, why not?


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    #58
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    spurious wrote: »
    Were these examples of bad SEC marking re-checked?
    If so, what happened, if not, why not?

    I think it's mostly JC level being referred to. They just tot up the scores again in a recheck no?


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    #59
    Crazyteacher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭Crazyteacher


    The chief examiner marks them again from scratch, can give more marks or take them away if necessary.


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    #60
    implausible
    Registered Users Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭implausible


    Crazyteacher wrote:
    A qualified teacher. If they had someone who was more experienced as a teacher who had applied for the position then they would have hired them instead.

    Not necessarily. The SEC have their own promotions policy, I'd imagine they look at a examiner's marking experience, not whether they're permanent or not.


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    #61
    deiseindublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭deiseindublin


    mtoutlemonde wrote: »
    I can't say anything re conferences as I always seem to meet up with correctors I know and don't interview the new ones.
    Nobody does interview them!


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