Deadlift Woes

FTA69

Story is: 76kg male; started barbell lifting 8 weeks ago and am currently deadlifting 105kg for reps. Problem is though, it's sh*te. Literally no other problems on any other lifts like squat or press etc but deadlift is killing me.

The main problem I have is my grip, every rep the bar feels like it's about to fly out of my hand and at times it's only my fingers holding it. I use the mixed grip but still it's a massive hassle. I've developed fairly hefty calluses on my hands and today one ripped off on the pull which was fairly f*cking gammy to be honest. Part of me is thinking just get straps but another part knows that 105 is paltry to be bringing out the straps.

Is chalk as effective as they say, do I need extra grip work or will I just crack on and buy the straps?

Nervous Wreck

Chalk, grip work, more deadlifting.

FTA69

FTA69 wrote: »

Is chalk as effective as they say

yes it really is go get some

Useful.Idiot

I don't use chalk yet but for me the best way to improve grip on deadlifts is, as mentioned above....more deadlifts

Make sure you get PLENTY of warm-up sets in using the conventional grip, should help your mixed grip working sets.

FTA69

Useful.Idiot wrote: »

I don't use chalk yet but for me the best way to improve grip on deadlifts is, as mentioned above....more deadlifts

Make sure you get PLENTY of warm-up sets in using the conventional grip, should help your mixed grip working sets.

Good advice definitely something I'm neglecting.

Chalk has been ordered off eBay anyway.

Brian?

What grip are you using? Double overhand, mixed or hook?


The answer to your problem is 100% more deadlifting. Pulling 105kg at 76kg is decent going at this early stage, so definitely don't let it get to you.

FTA69

Brian? wrote: »

What grip are you using? Double overhand, mixed or hook?


The answer to your problem is 100% more deadlifting. Pulling 105kg at 76kg is decent going at this early stage, so definitely don't let it get to you.

Mixed grip at the moment. The callus ripping off was a shock like; half way into a pull and next thing your hand is bleeding. I'll try work up to the workset with overhand maybe; I normally just jump into my 1x5.

Alf Veedersane

FTA69 wrote: »

Mixed grip at the moment. The callus ripping off was a shock like; half way into a pull and next thing your hand is bleeding. I'll try work up to the workset with overhand maybe; I normally just jump into my 1x5.

It's possible you didnt grip the bar as tightly after the callus went so I wouldn't worry about it. Get the chalk and use it and you'll be fine.

I always do mixed from the start

deadlybuzzman

Fair play that's really good progress already. I always used to have grip issues until I started doing a few small things.
On your last Rep of your heaviest set hold the bar at the top for as long as you can.
Don't use your thumb on as many reps on other lifts as you can get away with, eg: dumbell curls pull-downs, rows etc.
There was also a thread a few weeks back about grip and where in the hand to position the bar, definitely check that out too

Mellor

bluewolf wrote: »

I always do mixed from the start

You should only use it when you need it. Double overhand is more taxing, so using it on your warm up sets means your grip will get better faster.

Brian?

FTA69 wrote: »

Mixed grip at the moment. The callus ripping off was a shock like; half way into a pull and next thing your hand is bleeding. I'll try work up to the workset with overhand maybe; I normally just jump into my 1x5.

You should absolutely be doing warm up sets. I'd only use mixed grip if a normal overhand grip is limiting your lift and then only close to you max.

Chalk is great for sweaty hands, but you may need to consider supplemental grip work. I have no personal experience with this to be honest.

Mark Rippetoe gives a few pointers on grip in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_1792934389&feature=iv&list=UUkRMqL3hLrIYhxNCac4vR3w&src_vid=CnBmiBqp-AI&v=4AObAU-EcYE

Reps4jesus

Have any plans on competing in powerlifting? If not just use straps and work on your grip other times. You should be using deadlifts to get strong, not work your grip, dont let grip limit you from getting the most out of your workout. Work to whatever weight you can until grip fails then throw on the straps. Work on grip at any other part of the day.

Nervous Wreck

Reps4jesus wrote: »

Have any plans on competing in powerlifting? If not just use straps and work on your grip other times. You should be using deadlifts to get strong, not work your grip, dont let grip limit you from getting the most out of your workout. Work to whatever weight you can until grip fails then throw on the straps. Work on grip at any other part of the day.

Or, improve your grip so you can lift heavier and get stronger.

Mr. CooL ICE

I never had issues with grip. Always did overhand for warmups until 2nd last warmup set, where I changed to alternate for one warmup before work set.

I did notice overhand becoming easier when I was doing farmer walks once a week. If you are deadlifting once a week, do something on another day that involves holding something heavy for a while. Walk around with two heavy dumbells. Even just hand from a pullup bar for as long as you can. It will all help.

Alf Veedersane

If grip strength was an issue, I'd see no problem with using straps but not so that you don't have to work your grip. Improve grip so that you can do heavier weights without straps.

But whatever works. I found straps off-putting for deadlifts.

heroics

+1 on chalk. I also only use mixed grip when I am at a weight that my normal overhand grip is limiting me.

Farmers walk and Barbell holds can help with your grip.

Reps4jesus

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Reps4jesus wrote: »

Have any plans on competing in powerlifting? If not just use straps and work on your grip other times. You should be using deadlifts to get strong, not work your grip, dont let grip limit you from getting the most out of your workout. Work to whatever weight you can until grip fails then throw on the straps. Work on grip at any other part of the day.

Or, improve your grip so you can lift heavier and get stronger.

Yeah you should be doing additional grip work as ideally you wouldnt need straps but i dont see the point in massively limiting the amount of work you are doing in the movemnt because of your grip. Deadlifts should be used to work the posterior chain, not your grip.
For heavy singles i usually go strapless but any sort of rep work i will use straps. I have never failed a dl due to grip issues going this way

LuckyLloyd

First off, great work over 8 weeks. 105kgs for five at your weight is a great starting point.

Secondly, everyone is right in their own way imo. Work on grip; do overhand when you can; hold the last rep of the last set for 10 seconds; do farmer's walks; get chalk; and if it eventually becomes a choice between lifting or not lifting 140 x 5 depending on whether you're using straps or not - use them.

The primary objective of the Deadlift is to get strong as ****, having better grip strength is a nice ancillary benefit (and I say that as someone who has never failed a Deadlift rep because of grip).

Mellor

Reps4jesus wrote: »

i dont see the point in massively limiting the amount of work you are doing in the movemnt because of your grip. Deadlifts should be used to work the posterior chain, not your grip.

Obviously grip strength is different for everyone, but I really don't think it will be much of a limiter once they set up correctly and use chalk. At most a few weeks and it will catch up.

From the OPs description I'd guess he was holding the bar too high in his palm which ripped the callus.
I've soft desk worker hands, so my calluses tend to rip easy once they get too big. But its nearly always movement that causes it, not weight. Monkey bars a regular culprit

deadlybuzzman

A great little thing to do that you can slip in as a super set with something unrelated like squats or bench is these
https://youtu.be/1ewLddyTl0g

Come to think of it it's possible you can actually deadlift more than what you're lifting currently. Ive found that when my grip was anything less than rock solid it's like my body kept the handbrake on and the bar wouldn't clear the floor.
A few weeks of grip work later and as the bar felt rock solid in my hands, the same weights popped off the floor reasonably quickly

Macronator

Make sure your form is 100% you'll thank yourself in the long run.. check out YouTube videos from Scott Herman etc. Also liquid chalk is the best chalk for deadlifting. You can get in on myprotein.com

arybvtcw0eolkf

Reps4jesus wrote: »

Have any plans on competing in powerlifting? If not just use straps and work on your grip other times. You should be using deadlifts to get strong, not work your grip, dont let grip limit you from getting the most out of your workout. Work to whatever weight you can until grip fails then throw on the straps. Work on grip at any other part of the day.

^^^ This, absolutely this every time.

Deadlift isn't a gripping exercise so don't let your grip (or lack of) let you down.

Use straps.

I've recently started using leather straps and so far they're miles ahead of the cotton straps I've used for over twenty years.

Chalk is good too, but straps are better.

And like others have said, well done on your lifts so far. That's a decent starting weight for a 76kg lad.

Mellor

Daniel Clean Colander wrote: »

^^^ This, absolutely this every time.

Deadlift isn't a gripping exercise so don't let your grip (or lack of) let you down.

Use straps.

I've recently started using leather straps and so far they're miles ahead of the cotton straps I've used for over twenty years.

I'm sure you'd be fine without them with your Judo death grip.

whippet

I used to tear my hands on anything approaching 80% of my max DL. I powerlift so I needed to work on my grip. Hanging from a bar, very heavy farmer carries and heavy (42kg +) kettlebell swings have helped.

Pulled a PB the other day and not as much as a callous to be seen. Previously my grip always let me down when maxing out .. the bar would move up no problem and the hands would just give in.

FTA69

Mellor wrote: »

I'm sure you'd be fine without them with your Judo death grip.

In fairness years of Judo would also leave him with hands looking like a bag of organic carrots.

wilkie2006

Mellor wrote: »

From the OPs description I'd guess he was holding the bar too high in his palm which ripped the callus.... But its nearly always movement that causes it, not weight.

Exactly. Weight doesn't tear calluses, movement does. Take a look at this video from Mark Rippetoe re holding the barbell on pull actions...

Re mixed grip (MG): 100kg sounds a little light for this alternative grip. I would suggest improving your grip strength and saving MG for later, when you can go heavier. I think I remember reading about this some time ago, but can't find the article (I'll check after work and update if I locate it).

If you're looking to improve your grip strength, take a look here: https://www.muscleforlife.com/forearm-workouts-grip-strength/

Well done on how it's going, OP! Keep it up.

freemenfitness

A lot of great tips here on the grip thing it really depends on your goals grip has a ton of useful carry overs into things like pull ups etc but if your just looking to max out your strength then there are lots of great tips above. I also second the liquid chalk as its less messy. Also simple advice but when doing mixed grip make sure to switch the grip over on each side to balance out.

Otherwise great starting point.

Alf Veedersane

freemenfitness wrote: »

Also simple advice but when doing mixed grip make sure to switch the grip over on each side to balance out.

The whole imbalance thing is overplayed on using mixed grip.

Mellor

wilkie2006 wrote: »

Re mixed grip (MG): 100kg sounds a little light for this alternative grip. I would suggest improving your grip strength and saving MG for later, when you can go heavier.

I'm not sure I understand the logic there.
Mixed grip isn't a one time deal. Benefiting from the mechanical advantage now doesn't diminish any pontential benefit he'll get down the line.
If it allows him to lift more now, then he'll likely improve his deadlift faster - for all grip variations.

I don't understand what saving it for later could achieve.

freemenfitness wrote: »

Also simple advice but when doing mixed grip make sure to switch the grip over on each side to balance out.

To balance out what?
It's working your hips and posterior chain. There's little going on in the arms. You aren't going to be come a lobsided ogre

freemenfitness

To balance out your erectors and traps this is only if your exclusively using mixed grip as it will create torque on your spine. If its just on the last few reps then it makes no difference as all of the other work will balance things out. This would be a pretty long term thing too I know a small number of lifters who credit injury to this, but that could be due to other things so I could well be wrong. As Alf said it seems to be a little overplayed.

FTA69

Alright folks, just thought I'd give an update on this.

Picked up my chalk from the post office this morning and am just back from from the gym there. I spent a few minutes watching that Rippetoe video in the changing room beforehand to address bar placement and kept in mind heading in. Did a few warm up sets with overhand grip and then whacked on the chalk for the workset- pulled 110kg not a bother. Zero hassle like, I'd say I could have whacked on more weight and been comfortable. Similarly on my pull-ups I felt stuck to the bar. It's a serious game changer.

Thanks for all the great advice, it's a small forum but the advice you get is spot on in comparison to the yards of contradictory rubbish you find elsewhere.

nice_guy80

fair play

one or two coaching sessions with a S&C coach can really help in terms of form.
and a good program to follow
after that its just about lifting stuff
enjoy

Vegeta

Great result OP, another factor I haven't seen mentioned is the knurling on the bar. There are a few bars in the gym I use and they are practically smooth. Couple that with a training partner with sweaty palms and it's a pain in the hole. I'll always check to make sure there's a decent bar on the platform now.

Mellor

FTA69 wrote: »

...then whacked on the chalk for the workset- pulled 110kg not a bother. Zero hassle like, I'd say I could have whacked on more weight and been comfortable.

Go for it. Honestly.
Nothing major, say 115kg nest week. And go from there.

Chalk adds a lot, maybe 10% for me. Had to lift without it this week and from the minute I gripped the bar it feels less solid

FTA69

115kg not a bother, had a bit of pinching but that was because I forgot about bar placement. My goal was bodyweight plus 75% and I'm only 15kg off that now. Got my first set of ten wide grip pull ups too.

LuckyLloyd

You're flying

Mellor

FTA69 wrote: »

115kg not a bother.

Keep going adding 5kg per week
Then it starts getting tough you can think about slowing down, maybe.
I bet you'll hit 140kg in 5/6 weeks time without missing a rep

FTA69

Mellor wrote: »

Keep going adding 5kg per [/u]week[/u]
Then it starts getting tough you can think about slowing down, maybe.
I bet you'll hit 140kg in 5/6 weeks time without missing a rep

I'm on the Stronglifs type stuff which has 5kg every workout on an A/B so 7.5kg a week. If I hit double bodyweight after a few months of training I'll be delighted.

Mellor

After a while 5kg per workout is a lot, can decide then to drop to 2.5kg per workout, or 5kg per week.
2x Bodyweight in within reach relatively quickly imo. The grind comes in after that getting from double to triple

FTA69

Mellor wrote: »

After a while 5kg per workout is a lot, can decide then to drop to 2.5kg per workout, or 5kg per week.
2x Bodyweight in within reach relatively quickly imo. The grind comes in after that getting from double to triple

Ha, the chances of me pulling 225 are fairly non existent I'd say.

LuckyLloyd

FTA69 wrote: »

Ha, the chances of me pulling 225 are fairly non existent I'd say.

They exist alright. But chasing that might have to come at the expense of other athletic strengths / areas of focus and take an amount of effort you aren't willing to put in (and reasonably so).

Brian?

FTA69 wrote: »

Ha, the chances of me pulling 225 are fairly non existent I'd say.

I wouldn't think so. Give it a year.

What are your squat and bench numbers?

Just be careful to rest and eat enough.

Alf Veedersane

I remember watching a lad squat 60kg and thinking it'd be cool to be able to have a 20 on each end of the bar and squat it.

Numbers often seem a long way away and sometimes they are but no reason why you can't get there by investing the time and effort to get there.

FTA69

Brian? wrote: »

I wouldn't think so. Give it a year.

What are your squat and bench numbers?

Just be careful to rest and eat enough.

Bench is 70 for reps and Squat is 100 for reps; at 75kg weight

Brian?

FTA69 wrote: »

Bench is 70 for reps and Squat is 100 for reps; at 75kg weight

Quality numbers man(if you are a man). Good work.

I have a post ready for when you plateau so check back when you do . Keep doing what you're doing now though, you're killing it.

I would like those numbers

Brian?

bluewolf wrote: »

I would like those numbers

You'll get there bluewolf! You just gotta to believe.


I'm thinking of becoming a life coach, FYI.

Yeah hoping to hit em this year
Except the bench because it hates me

Alf Veedersane

Brian? wrote: »

You'll get there bluewolf! You just gotta to believe.


I'm thinking of becoming a life coach, FYI.

Would you play Journey's seminal classic 'Don't Stop Believing' through the session?

Brian?

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Would you play Journey's seminal classic 'Don't Stop Believing' through the session?

You'll have to pay for the full program to find out. €17.99 and it's yours.